The early LDS Church was also prone to this. See https://www.scribd.com/doc/62792449/Coming-of-the-Lord. At that time, even the Apostles seemed to believe.
Maybe those people casting stones at Julie Rowe should have joined in the Pilgrimage to the Mecca to participate in the "stoning of the Devil". They would have been much better off than casting stones at this person. Who knows what will happen to her and her family with all the vitriolic comments and terrible things they say about her! I don't know her, but I know well enough to say "Charity never faileth". In Amos 7:14-15, Amos said he was no "prophet" neither was he a prophet's son, but a herdman and gatherer of fruit. But the Lord told him to go prophesy to the people. We are in no position to determine whether she was told to write a book or not. Unfortunately all this media attention had the church address it which I can bet that if there was no panic or hysteria they would not have said anything. But bottom line, put your stones away or go join the Mecca pilgrimage next year!
Tell me please, I really want to know. When I flee Babylon, which way should I go?
Anytime someone claims "revelation" on this or that, I become wary immediately. There's always going to be a "kook fringe" who will latch on and take it way beyond what was intended by the person who originally voiced it. I think this is the case with Julie Rowe's book.
Q: Why Do Some Latter-day Saints Flock to False Prophets of Doom?A: Because the true prophets are silent on the issue.
Obviously there is an issue if the church has to issue a statement. Elder Packer once said in a question-and-answer meeting that what does it matter if we know when the end of the world will be. He said are we ready spiritually?
I call them "The Profits of Doom". Often well-meaning, but also often out of touch with reality. It is well to remember the story of Henny Penny and "The sky is falling!" Of course we live in troubled times. The best "insurance" you can have is always being careful to keep the Lord's commandments, which includes following the inspired words of out Living Prophet, with due respect to his predecessors. And be not deceived. Remember "experts" have inaccurately predicted at least 100 financial disasters in the last 30 years, and they make a ton of money doing it. I have a friend who has made millions of dollars writing advertising (junk mail) for them, and he's made them a lot more than he got from the enterprises. The key is very simple: faith, repentance, baptism, laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost, keeping covenants and obeying commandments. Do that and what happens doesn't matter much. No need to fear. God works miracles for those who obey. I know that from experience.
It was almost painful for me reading this article, and many (but not all) of the comments that followed.
That's because of the contentious effect I see this singular event having upon us, the body of Christ. One can imagine it rippling out like waves throughout the church membership.
I detect a tone within the situation that's divisive and judgmental, albeit spiritually up on a high horse. One of the commenters rightly foresaw a newly created group of lesser, second-class members, comprised of those who like the Rowe book. Or even those who simply subscribe to the personal belief that (prophesied) times of tribulation and judgement are coming to the earth much sooner than some might like.
(As one perceptive teacher noted several years ago "Some Latter-day Saints act as if the Second Coming has been postponed.")
Also, frankly, there's a lot of cherry-picking going on right now regarding statements given on the subject by church leaders past and present.
Of course the brethren were correct to draw a line in the sand concerning the situation being created by the Rowe book and others like it. NO QUESTION. I read that it needed "tamping down". I certainly agree.
That being done, shouldn't that be the end of it? Do heads need to roll?
No, now it's "Lo here, and Lo there" and the adversary jumping in to really stir things up!
True that no man knoweth the hour of His coming.
But we are given to know quite specifically about the days which will precede it. Why then have we been given signs and warnings by all the prophets and even Christ himself? So that we may prepare and be ready for his return. It seems foolish to think otherwise, for WE ARE TOLD to watch and be ready.
We need to get over ourselves, brothers and sisters, and move forward, arms linked, for the days that are ahead. United. Body of Christ.
Thankful for the healing balm of General Conference in a few days!
Here is a clarification on the church's statement made on the church's newsroom blog, "Mormonism in the News: Getting It Right | September 29, 2015"https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/mormonism-news-getting-it-right-september-29-2015
Alan, in this thread, mentioned something that President Benson said on the subject of being prepared for the last days. It is found in the October 1980 General Conference."Too often we bask in our comfortable complacency and rationalize that the ravages of war, economic disaster, famine, and earthquake cannot happen here. Those who believe this are either not acquainted with the revelations of the Lord, or they do not believe them. Those who smugly think these calamities will not happen, that they somehow will be set aside because of the righteousness of the Saints, are deceived and will rue the day they harbored such a delusion.The Lord has warned and forewarned us against a day of great tribulation and given us counsel, through His servants, on how we can be prepared for these difficult times. Have we heeded His counsel?"Does this statement by a prophet of God make him, President Benson, a prophet of doom? If so, he is in good company, not only with Jesus Christ (see Matthew 24) but with many prophets in the Old and New Testaments and The Book of Mormon.
For any who have commented on this article by Maurine I have just two questions. 1. Do you have at least a years supply of food, warm clothing, fuel where possible, water and every needful thing? 2. If not, what is your excuse?
While this article was reasonably well-written and well-sourced, the premise, that anyone (author or member) who believes that we are close to "the beginning of the end" is a "doomsday prophet," is extreme at best. The most substantive point in the article was the statement by President Packer in his 2011 Conference talk (October?). While he definitely implied that things will go on as usual for several generations, his actual words were that the youth of today could "look forward to doing it right - getting married, having a family, seeing [their] children and grandchildren, maybe even great-grandchildren."While we could well ask what it means to "see" their children and grandchildren - certainly that will be true for countless people who live through the tribulation, and right on into the Millennium - President Packer does make it sound like things will go on in "the right (normal?) way" for years to come. It certainly appears that that is what he is saying.Meanwhile, to ignore the Blood Moons and Solar Eclipses on significant (high-holy) days on the Hebrew Calendar (established by the Lord himself in the Law of Moses) - not President Packer, but the author - and to ignore the crumbling of the economy of every major country on the planet, is certainly not what the Lord expects his "informed" people to do. We also do not need for the Brethren to spell this out for us. To my knowledge they have not warned of any major war (or 9/11), or market collapse in the last 100 years. They have simply given the counsel to store food, get out of debt, etc.Julie Rowe has made it clear from the beginning that she is not speaking for the church, and makes no claim to be a prophet or prophetess. Her books, of course, are among many others which give similar descriptions of coming events. While the author dismisses Joel's prophecy, repeated in Acts, and immediately lumps all who assert it with those who say that the Brethren aren't infallible (my words), that is a completely false ploy. Those of us who believe that the fulfillment of prophecy is taking place before our eyes do not - nor does Julie Rowe - write off the brethren or ignore them. Joel's prophecy is being fulfilled. BTW, one of those dreams or visions was by President Wilford Woodruff. He would surely be classified as a "prophet of doom," under the author's broad heading.The Seminaries and Institutes, just like the Sunday School, should teach from the Standard Works and writings of the general officers of the church. Having said that, they obviously often include quotes from notable sources, both member and non-member alike (C.S. Lewis, et al.) Nonetheless, it would not be inappropriate for the Seminaries and Institutes to be advised not to "teach from" Chicken Soup for the Soul or Jonathan Livingston Seagull (for those who can remember back that far).Finally, Rabbi Jonathan Cahn, now a Christian who sounds very LDS (speaking of the Apostasy, the Infinite Atonement, etc.), documents many major events which have happened on what appears to be the seven-year Shemitah (Sabbath) cycle, right up to 2001 and 2008 - the two single largest drops in the Stock Market in our nation's history. The most recent took place over two days, just 2-3 weeks ago, within ten days of the most recent final day of a Shemitah year. To dismiss him as a shrill "doomsday prophet" is both narrow-minded and harshly judgmental. He is always clear to say that the Lord is free to do as He pleases with regard to any of his designated times.If people are waking up and getting prepared, are we to condemn them as being "extremist" (the all-time favorite word of the elites, frankly)? No, we shouldn't. They are following the counsel of living prophets, regardless of the impetus.As for hunkering down, there came a time in the Book of Mormon when Mormon himself withdrew from leading the armies of the Nephites. No where in Isaiah or Jeremiah were the children of Israel counseled to write their congressmen (judges). They were told one thing at the time: Repent! We are told two: Repent and Prepare! Being aware of the sings of the times - as we have been specifically commanded to do by the Savior himself - is neither shrill nor faithless. To the contrary. It is both faithful and wise. Meanwhile, we continue to attend the temple, do family history, and, yes, grow gardens and prepare in every other way which seems prudent. Praying for guidance to know how to proceed is advice which is certainly consistent with everything we have been taught, and Julie Rowe recommends that as well. Like the author, she is entitled to both have and give her opinion. We are all free to discern what we will do with the thoughts and ideas which they impart.
God bless us all to be found wise stewards when the Lord comes!
Tom Ballantyne - Author
When a car accident happens at an intersection, seldom do the witnesses from the four corners of the intersection agree on what happened.
The same holds for personal revelation. It's a similar concept as "You can't see the forest for the trees. We may see some of the trees, but the prophet is the one assigned to call our attention to the "whole" forest.
To me the most important 2nd Coming is the one that can happen in each individual's own heart.
The scriptures say that the day of His coming will be both "Great and Dreadful". It will be Great for those who are spiritually prepared and Dreadful for those who aren't. To God, who is looking down on our progress, it's more like looking down on a roofless doll house. The concern is not so much which room we are in (mortality or spirit world), but "how" we are living in our hearts.
So in the discussion of "preparedness", I choose to emphasize the providing of daily "spiritual" meals over the "hoarding" of physical meals.
I strive to do both, but "sanctification" is more important to me than preserving my life during a holocaust.
Excellent article Maurine
Here are a couple of scriptures, which support Julie Rowe and others, who are additional witnesses to what the prophets have said. "In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established." 2 Corinthians 13:1, Doctrine & Covenants 6:28. Also, Joel 2:28-29 28And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: 29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
I have addressed with family members concerning anxiety driven by Rabbi Jonathan books The Harbinger and The Mystery of the Shemitah. People seem to overlooked the real intent of the Rabbi's two books "The Harbinger's ultimate call is that of repentance, not speculation or the setting of dates. The mysteries contained in The Harbinger all point to a coming national calamity concerning America and the world. But that calamity doesn't have to take place when we think it must or according to schedule. The judgment and calamity revealed and warned about in The Harbinger do not depend on any set date or time parameter. But barring a national change of course, it will come. The most important thing, no matter when it comes, is to be ready and to be right with God." I found Rabbi Cahn's books quite fascinating as well as the movie Four Blood Moons. Tying historical events to scripture interests me very much. However, as a counselor in the stake presidency once said to me, "Some things are interesting but other things are important." What is important is our relationship with the Savior.
The scriptures have outlined abundantly what changes will happen before the coming of Christ. For those rushing to build tent cities, first read about all the signs of the times, and make a list.
Have we had 7 years of war yet?
Do we have a temple in Jerusalem yet?
Has the church moved to Missouri yet? You can ask a dozen other questions, and not worry about anyone who feels they have "insider information."
The church has told us for decades to be prepared. Nothing's new. Nor is there any reason to panic.
In response to Dora and anyone else who thinks no one really knows when Christ will come again, the Prophet Joseph Smith said the following: "Christ says no man knoweth the day or the hour when the Son of Man cometh. This is a sweeping argument for sectarianism against Latter-day-ism. Did Christ speak this as a general principle throughout all generations? Oh, no. He spoke in the present tense no man that was then living upon the footstool of God knew the day or the hour. But he did not say there was no man throughout all generations that should not know the day or the hour. No, for this would be in flat contradiction with other scripture (Amos 3:7) for the prophet [Amos] says that God will do nothing but what he will reveal unto his servants the prophets. Consequently, if it is not made known to the Prophets, it will not come to pass." ("The Words of Joseph Smith," Ehat & Cook, Religious Studies Center, BYU, p.180-81) Again, it is ONLY our current, living prophets and apostles that we are to look to and follow.
Unfortunately we know from the "10 Virgins" and "Wheat and Tares" parables that many members of the Church will not be spiritually prepared (as well as temporally prepared.) If you don't stay in the scriptures and close to the Spirit, then it's much easier to be deceived by the "teachings of men" (and "women".). It might seem "hard" at times or "boring" to stay the course following our prophets and testing things by the revelations we already have. It seems more fun to listen to more sensational voices. However, those that criticize or try to compete with the prophets and apostles are doing a real disservice, and it's heartbreaking to see how people fall for it! But I shouldn't be so shocked as it has always been this way with people.
Here is my question. If "no man knows, no not the angels in heaven" how can the Brethren say that the Second Coming of Christ is NOT immenent. They do very occasionally make mistakes you know. General Conference is coming up...they say to come with questions. That's mine.
My family decided about a year ago that we would finally get absolutely everything we needed prepped for emecy contingencies. We have a laThe family with many dependents and we knew it would take a lot of saving and preparation. We put money aside and started making purchases. Yes, including a military grade tent because we own land that we eventually want to put a cabin on and plan on utilizing it long term while the construction process happens and as overflow accommodation after construction is complete. When we got everything done I happily shared my news on Facebook along with some pictures of all of our accomplishments ( a full year's supply of adequate food for 9 people is a *lot* of food. Luckily I'm a firm believer in rotation.). I was immediately swarmed and in some cases mightily mocked for being a Julie Rowe follower. I have no idea who she was. I confess, I finally felt like I was perfectly aligned and doing absolutely everything I was supposed to be doing and it was a huge disappointment to be labeled a doomsday prepper And an LDS freak show. If it hadn't been for this incident I doubt I would have a real opinion about this subject at all. However, I'm sure there a lot of people feeling rather foolish right now. (I mean, *I* feel foolish and shamed and mine is a straight case of unfortunate coincidence of timing.)
I want to know why Mormons are so fond of all of the doom and gloom, President Hinkley said we should be the happiest people on earth! But we follow false prophets like Skousen, Rowe, and Reed Benson into becoming obsessed with minutia instead of joyfully sharing the Gospel and our means with others. Christ never meant for us to selfishly hoard for ourselves, we should be prepared so that we might care for others should a natural disaster occur. People it has been the Last Days since 1830, for all we know it will be the Last Days for a millennia. No need to be like the Christians who obsess about Revelations instead of trying to be like the Jesus we find in the Gospels!
Revelation is vertical to the prophet for the church and the world. We can have revelation relating to our lives and stewardship. The statement that she knows more detail but the Lord forbids here to say sums it up. She is selling books and fear and is unbelievable. I have had a death experience during the Iraq war which was personal to my progression. Listen to the living Prophet and you will not stray.
It is more important than ever to listen to the Prophet and our Church leaders. They will never lead us astray. We have a responsibility to lead in our families - to pray for guidance for them, ever keeping Prophetic counsel in mind. We listen to their messages, and then pray in our families about what we need to do. That is the way. Others have their own experiences which they of course want to share, but we always heed the Prophet. Those words from the Prophet come from Christ. Always remember that He is the head of the Church, the Prophet is His spokesman. Christ is the earth's creator. His foreknowledge about everything spiritual and temporal is supernal. With that guidance, what have we to fear?
Going at this a little blind, haven't read Julie Rowe's books and skimmed over the basics of this article. Looked intriguing; starting a few months ago I noticed a Jewish website posted articles about the "Blood Moon" and what is called a tetrad. What I have found interesting in looking to the heavens for signs of things to come, is that the history of these back to back years of having blood moons (twice 2014-2015); that's pretty interesting to me, and how they also correspond to about the same time we as LDS are to hear from our Prophet and Apostles at Conference time in April and October. I believe there were signs in the heavens for many events in history, but to say something apocalyptic will happen..that to me is a wait and see. (Just exactly how long did the wise men follow the star?) The story on the Jewish site, made mention of how really rare these tetrads are, and some things that had happened to the Jewish nation at several of these earlier occurrences. I'm not sure of any one event that is to come to pass because of the these latest blood moons, but I think we are seeing signs of the times nearly daily if we are watching. Hopefully we are all preparing our lives spiritually and strengthening our testimonies so that we are in tune with the spirit for discernment.
Beautifully stated, Maurine. As to those who say that reading these books has prompted them to finally get serious about food storage and such--really?? That is scary. The prophets counsel you to do something for decades and decades, church resources are used to help you do so, a whole church website deals with the subject, but it takes a breathless book with apocalyptic warnings to get you to finally obey? Wow. Might want to do some soul-searching on that one people.
Members of early Chuch of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints were eagerly looking forward to and awaiting the second coming of Jesus Christ which they and I would say their leaders at the time thought was immenent. I would argue that much of that early growth in the church was spurred on by the imminent return of the Lord and the need to gather and build Zion. Obviously, our understanding of the 2nd coming has changed over the years and the Church has shifted it's focus from this singular event to a more softened view. I wonder if history and culture have left their imprints on our collective subconscious and that is why many members of the LDS Church yearn to know if this is really the last dispensation and to know if HE really is coming soon...but, alas every new generation seems more chosen than the last and this glorious event seems ever more elusive.
Let's not use Cleon Skousen as a poster child. While teaching at BYU many years ago, his name was taken off the list of authorized teachers for certain religion classes because he was not teaching pure doctrine.
We have been counseled to avoid extreme preparations. What is extreme for one person may not be extreme for another. For example, a person who is out of debt may temporally prepare in a way that would be extreme for someone else. In gift giving, why not give a "preparedness" gift instead of some type of gadget. We are not to go into debt for food storage or any other preparedness item. There may be a minority of people, who, while not going into debt, may decide to purchase things that would be considered extreme for someone else. We all have been counseled to have a year's supply where practical and a 72 hour kit. As we are able to add other items, such as fuel, etc. we have been counseled to do so.
Here is a thought on sharing personal spiritual experiences. The authors of these books (those who have had visions and/or near death experiences) were specifically inspired by the Lord NOT to share these things until the time was right. So they didn't. But later, when they were inspired to share, the Lord paved the way for them to find people to help them write and publish the books. Another person who has published a book, though it is not from personal visions, is Cleon Skousen. His book, "The Cleansing of America" was written, based on the scriptures, before his death. He instructed his family to publish the book after certain things had taken place. That book has now been published.
I started reading the ldsliving article, but it was way too long. I'm not a fan of the headline. The people who've had these visions don't claim to be prophets, so how can they be referred to as false prophets? Also, these people who've written the books, encourage all of us to follow the prophet. It seems to me that perhaps the authors of these articles haven't actually read any of the books, but just read things about the books. I'm sure the author is just concerned that people don't follow something that is incorrect, but I feel that these books by Rowe and others are simply another witness of what the prophets have said and what you can find in the scriptures. As to some of the things that Rowe and others were shown, that haven't come down through the prophet, of course it's not doctrine. But in regard to revelation, "we believe that he will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the kingdom of God." Just because God has yet to reveal it to the prophet, or to tell the prophet to reveal it to us, doesn't make it false. Notice that the church news release did not say that Rowe's experiences were false, but did say that her book is not doctrine. This is, of course, totally correct. If all of the parts of her vision are true, it will eventually come down through the proper channels. In the meantime, many folks who have read her book have had a renewed interest in following the counsel that the prophets have been giving for over a hundred years: get prepared spiritually and temporally.
For those who are defending Julia because she has led you to follow the prophet, that's fine. I think that the counsel here, however, is to remember who you follow. It's all well and good right now that she is telling you to follow the prophet, but what happens when she (or another author) gives counsel contrary to the prophet. It's easy to say "I will still folow the prophet," but if you have placed your faith in these other individuals, it will make your choice difficult at best.We see that with the anti-Christs in the Book of Mormon as well. I doubt that many of Korihor's (or pick another) followers started out saying "I am going to defy the prophet," but because Korihor preached things that the people wanted to hear, they were quick to follow him.
I heard Julie Rowe speak in person and read both of her books and I didn't find anything extreme in her presentation. She kept everything to herself for many years and then felt that it was time to share what she had seen in her near death experience.If you look at many of the personal dreams and revelations from lay people in the Church historically, they used to be printed up in Church publications for the members to read many years ago. It happened all the time (Charles Evans, John Koyle, Sols Caurdisto, Alma Erickson, Dream of Plagues, Moses Thatcher, M. Sirrine, all in Church archives).If Julie Rowe and Roger K. Young help more people to be prepared, then I don't see how that can hurt. As it is, only about 3% of the members even have a complete years supply of food. Of course we should be following what the leaders tell us, but we should also be seeking our own information and confirmation if it is right. I don't see how that is controversial.
Personal revelation comes to us for oneself and family. Revelation for the world comes from the Prophets.
Part of the problem with this kind of thing is that the Holy Spirit testifies of truth...period. So if Sis. Rowe's book has truth in it, at all, the Holy Spirit will back it up. It does not follow that the entire book is true. I read a lot, and some really terrible books still have nuggets of truth in them, and the Holy Spirit will still testify to the truth of those small parts of a worse whole. Which is not to say that Sis. Rowe's work is entirely bad or entirely good; I haven't read it, I wouldn't know. But I am very familiar with wading through sometimes enormous books that are mostly balderdash (I'm looking at you, Stephen Jay Gould) but there are still good and truthful bits, and sometimes excellent insights mixed in with the drivel. When reading anything that makes claims to truth, it's just as necessary to read with care and try to separate the factual from the fictitious, the well-meaning but misguided from the trustworthy, and that sentence by sentence. You might read a dozen chapters of a book without the slightest glimmer of spiritual influence, and then a single sentence could be a gem of truth mixed in the dross.Is it always worth reading lots of dross for a couple of nuggets? No indeed. Even so, there are some books we should read for self-defense, so that we are not taken unawares by those who preach them as if recently minted in their own heads. Exposure to even evil writings can inoculate and uplift in peculiar ways if engaged by a careful skepticism. And I think that is what's missing: care and skepticism. When I was at the MTC Elder Ashton recommended that we NOT read many then-popular books about missionary work, and mentioned some authors by name. Because of that I have always treated those who claim special insight with perhaps too much skepticism, but better to think it through critically than find out too late that I was mistaken.
In the early 1970s, Pres. Harold B. Lee spoke out in rather pointed language concerning some misguided ideas about the last days that were then current in the Church. He said: "There are among us many loose writings predicting the calamities which are about to overtake us. Some of these have been publicized as though they were necessary to wake up the world to the horrors about to overtake us. Many of these are from sources upon which there cannot be unquestioned reliance." The Lord already has his own system in place for providing us with the warnings that we will need. I am confident that if he wants to wake up the world or the Church, he will do it through his apostles and prophets, who have been called, sustained, and ordained to that purpose. The Lord himself said, "And this shall be a law unto you, that ye receive not the teachings of any that shall come before you as revelations or commandments; and this I give unto you that you may not be deceived, that you may know they are not of me" (D&C 43:5-6). Elder Boyd K. Packer said in the Oct. 1992 general conference: "There are some among us now who have not been regularly ordained by the heads of the Church who tell of impending political and economic chaos, the end of the world. ... Do not be deceived by them--those deceivers." In my opinion, based on the above, the writings of Julie Rowe, Roger K. Young, and all others like them, are "loose writings" and should be avoided like the plague if we want to avoid deception in these last days.
Maurine here to Kari. You will note that the term "spurious" is from the Church website, not my original wording. The question is not about whether we quote people who are or are not General Authorities. The question is if someone presents a vision as if it is an accurate picture of the future as if they have a special knowledge to share. Someone who claims to know the future and uses that knowledge to warn others is claiming prophecy. That is the danger.
i think Julie Rowe's books took the percentage of those who had any food storage up a notch from 10 to 15 % of the church membership who had a true one year supply all the way up to 20 %. That is just a guess. But way to go Julie. You finally presented a possible scenario that caused me to listen to our prophets better. Do you really think that is spurious? Why isn't Cleon Skousens book on cleansing of America on the list of "spurious " material. Or several others who are not general authorities? Yet we quote them often , including C.S. Lewis( sorry Elder Maxwell). This is such a poor article quoting selected material. When the spirit whispers that something is good, it is from God. I have long been a fan of the Proctors, but they are not general authorities. And they never claimed to be, neither did Julie Rowe.
We of all people who have taken the admonition of Moroni to read ponder and pray about the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon would know best the source of a witness. If you haven't read her books, how did you come to the conclusion what's said in them is false? If you have read and have concern about Sis, Rowe's stance and "evil" influence over members of the church, have you taken this to the Lord? The name of our church tells us we live the the final days leading up to the Lord's return. What would He have us do at this critical point of all human history? Are we ready to live consecrated lives not just as saints but as Millennial Zion, like citizens in the City of Enoch? Sis. Rowe's books have helped me appreciate even more teachings of prophets reassuring me that God is all about love, wisdom, grace and mercy. He is at helm and I salute Him. Glory be to our Father for His great plan! One of life's mysteries is about God's timing. I'm grateful for Sis. Rowe's courage to share her witness now and I thank you for yours.
We all must be wary of those who purport to know more than Gods appointed leaders on this earth. Why in the world would God give this kind of information to anyone else, before he tells his Prophets? Simply put, He wouldn't! We must be oh so very careful when we read or listen to the precepts of men, no matter how well intentioned. Everyone is entitled to personal revelation, but revelation about the end of the world, and what is contained in this book would definitely come through our Prophets. Don't let your personal testimony and the beliefs you have known and lived your whole life, be shaken by what someone has said in a book, on the internet, on TV, twittered, in a blog or elsewhere. If you think about the story of Lehi's vision, it is meant for our day, and it is so important that you hold fast to the rod that leads toward the tree of eternal life! Don't let go because of those who are mocking, throwing their books and blogs at you or sharing falsehoods from the great and spacious building. Don't let your testimony about what you know be changed by something you have read or wonder about. Hold fast and get past those mists of darkness, just hold on and keep your family with you. Staying close to the tree is worth the effort, and tasting of the fruit of the tree, will make you happy. Throw away the book of personal opinion and the doctrines of men, and stay close to the tree and be happy!You can do it, and endure to the end!
Both this Meridian article and the works to which it refers appear to me to be "voices of warning." However, from my perspective, one set of voices presents as compassionate, Christ centered and promotes connection while the other, however well intended, appears to be critical, contentious and divisive. I am reminded of the following parable..... "A man who was traveling came upon a farmer working in his field and asked him what the people in the next village were like. The farmer asked "What were the people like in the last village you visited?" The man responded "They were kind, friendly, generous, great people." "You'll find the people in the next village are the same," said the farmer.
Another man who was traveling to the same village came up to the same farmer somewhat later and asked him what the people in the next village were like. Again the farmer asked "What were the people like in the last village you visited?" The second man responded, "They were rude, unfriendly, dishonest people." "You'll find the people in the next village are the same," said the farmer." Could it be that both of these types of "warning voices" are necessary and sanctioned by our Heavenly Father (after all there must needs "be opposition in all things") and that it is up to each of us individually to exercise our God given agency and choose which "journey" we will undertake and therefor which "village" we will ultimately reach. I am enlightened and encouraged by President Uchtdorf's recent message presented at the General Women's Session of Conference as well as the scriptural injunction, "Therfore, verily, thus saith the Lord, let Zion rejoice, for this is Zion- THE PURE IN HEART; therefore, let Zion rejoice, while all the wicked shall mourn." (D&C 97:21) I personally have found it worthwhile to carefully and prayerfully consider each of these "voices of warning" including this article and remind myself of a quote that I once read published in another wonderful Meridian Magazine article, "Joy is NOT the absence of pain...but the presence of God." As was so beautifully expressed by William Shakespeare, "Sweet mercy is nobility's true badge."
When Samuel the Prophet gave his warning message to the people of Zarahemla, many wanted to kill him, others found his message rang true to them and went to the PROPHET living in their area NEPHI, asking for forgiveness, and baptism. Samuel was only raising a WARNING VOICE. No one need panic, if they are it is maybe because they have not heeded the warnings of our PROPHET. Sept, Ensign, First Presidency message from Pres. Thomas S. Monson, who I revere as our prophet today, The title of the article? "AREYOU PREPARED" Did anyone race out to get their food etc. preperations? Sister Rowe has constantly recommended that the people FOLLOW THE PROPHET, and pray about their own circumstances. NEVER once has she suggesed they go into debt etc. only to spiritually prepare, get right with the Lord and again FOLLOW THE PROPHET!!! It was not a new message for many of us, only, maybe, for those who have thought that preparedness was only for the other guy. Thanks for all you do on Meridian. I Love the articles I receive.
Thank you for making these problems more well known. I have read many real death experiences, and when I read hers, I threw it in the trash. I knew it was a fraud.
Then I started hearing about her meetings where she makes these prophecies. During a fast and testimony meeting, I vaguely mentioned the situation, and a woman walked up to me afterwards, and told me that here parents believe her and were getting ready to sell their house to move into the tent cities.
Someone invited me to join a private group, without telling me much about it. I turned out that there were thousands of people on this site who follow her. I read all of their remarks for a few months, and then cut myself off.
Not believing any of it, I remembered that Robert Millet had written a book called "Living in the Eleventh Hour," and bought that as well as his book, "Living in the Millenium." It is full of wonderful quotes from scriptures and prophets about what we are to be doing at this time in history. It left me with such a great feeling, as well as increased knowledge.
It makes me very sad, because this woman is laying great burdens upon people, and making money off of her books. You can no longer buy them at Seagull Books. Phew!
If we believe that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is led by living prophets, and those prophets are telling us that these materials do not coincide with doctrine, then how can we believe that God directed Julie Rowe and others to share their experiences? My God is not a God of contradictions. I believe that those who continue to follow these individuals are on a dangerous path.
This article is spot on. I have not read Julie Rowe's material but know some members who have and a few are making quite important life decisions on the basis of the material in there. One brother I know well is selling his business and other assets and moving to Utah to be closer to a 'city of light'. His children are all grown but imagine if he was 20 years younger and moving a family needlessly at a crucial time in their development. I simply said that we should follow only the counsel of the apostles and prophet and that the writings of one individual,however well intentioned, pales into insignificance.Some of these merchants of doom (Roger Young for example) profit from the scaremongering they publish. He sells a number of survival products on line I'm sure from people who read his material and are panicked into costly preparation far beyond that which the brethren advise. There are a number of true stories that I have been told from people on the ground and in positions in the church to be present regarding how the Lord guides His leaders to marshal the resources of the church in times of disaster. They are beautiful modern day miracles but for me they tell me only one thing, that this is the Lord's church, He is in charge and He will reveal His will to his servants in the manner indicated to the Prophet Joseph Smith in D&C 28. Precise instructions as to how to prepare for the very end times will come from the Prophet through proper priesthood channels. Those are the ONLY instructions I will follow - the rest is just noise and in the case of some, a pernicious way of making money by praying on members' fears of our turbulent times.
Disparaging Julie's "vision" "NDE" or whatever, isn't going to do anything except divide members of the church into "doomsday preppers" or those who wish to degrade the "doomsday preppers" into second class members. I have read a lot of books on various subjects, including Julie's books - I've taken it for her experience and her experience alone (I recall that she pointed that out in her book).Doctrine is doctrine, and someone's vision is someone's vision. I personally felt uplifted reading Julie's book and would highly recommend it...for people who can discern between recommended doctrinal books, i.e., scriptures, words of the prophets, the Ensign, etc., verses someone's (near-death) experience.
I haven't seen any of this panicked activity here in California. I know a lot of members in Utah feel that we are nearly apostate, but from what I've seen, the members here listen to our Prophet & Apostles & are doing what they are directed at a pace they can afford & that circumstances allow. For instance, My wife & I have a large garden & live on a fixed income. We care for my father. When he is gone we will likely have to move into an apartment, due to financial circumstances. When we do, we will not have a lot of room to store emergency supplies, nor will we be able to have a garden. But I have faith that if we are doing all we can with what we have, He will make up the difference. After all, if He can feed thousands with a few fishes & loaves of bread & still have the original amount remaining after all were filled, He can help us also.
I believe your article would have meant something… if posted on September 27th 2015, or earlier.
Thanks Maurine for your clear head and courageous article. If good people don't do anything then the bad guys win. Thank you also for giving us concrete ways to fight Satan and his war on goodness. The gospel will continue to grow and I want to be on the Lord's side.
Great article. Why is it that some Latter-day Saints are so trusting of others before the Prophet of The Lord?
In the June 20, 2014 Ensign Elder Holland said :
"Build Zion Where You AreOne of the many unique characteristics of our dispensation is the changing nature of how we establish the kingdom of God on earth. This dispensation is a time of mighty, accelerated change. And one thing that has changed is that the Church of God will never again flee. It will never again leave Ur in order to leave Haran in order to leave Canaan in order to leave Jerusalem in order to leave England in order to leave Kirtland in order to leave Nauvoo in order to go who knows where.No, as Brigham Young said for us all, “We have been kicked out of the frying-pan into the fire, out of the fire into the middle of the floor, and here we are and here we will stay.”3An Apostle has spoken. We will not flee again.
I think some LDS folks "Flock to a Prophet of Doom" for the same reason that some LDS folks insist caffeine is a sin, men can not have facial hair, and you have to wear your church clothes all day on Sunday. Some people just enjoy making up doctrines that they can cling to because true doctrine is not enough for them. They make up false doctrines and then try to get other people to believe them, which then gives them a weird sense of superiority over others. True believers accept the established doctrines and do not need to manufacture more for their own amusement. As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.
Here is also what the leaders of the church have said about sharing such personal spiritual experiences:Following are seven pointed instructions from those we sustain as prophets, seers, and revelators:
1. Joseph Smith: “Let us be faithful and silent, brethren, and if God gives you a manifestation, keep it to yourselves” (History of the Church, 2:309).
2. Brigham Young: “Should you receive a vision or revelation from the Almighty, one that the Lord gave you concerning yourselves, or this people, but which you are not to reveal on account of your not being the proper person, or because it ought not to be known by the people at present, you should shut it up and seal it . . . as secret as the grave. The Lord has no confidence in those who reveal secrets, for he cannot safely reveal himself to such persons” (Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Brigham Young, 43-44).
3. John A. Widtsoe: “Divine manifestations for individual comfort may be received by every worthy member of the Church. . . . Such manifestations most commonly guide the recipients to the solution of personal problems; though, frequently, they also open the mind to a clearer comprehension of the Lord’s vast plan of salvation. They are cherished possessions, and should be so valued by those who receive them. In their very nature, they are sacred and should be so treated. If a person who has received such a manifestation by dream, vision, or otherwise, feels impressed to relate it beyond his immediate family circle, he should present it to his bishop, but not beyond. The bishop, then, may decide upon its further use, if any, or may submit it to those of higher authority for action. The gift was a personal one, not for the Church as a whole; and the recipient is under obligation, in harmony with the established order, not to broadcast it over the Church” (Evidences and Reconciliations, 98-99).
4. Joseph F. Smith: “Not even a revelation from God should be taught to his people until it has first been approved by the presiding authority-the one through whom the Lord makes known His will for the guidance of the saints. . . .The spirit of revelation may rest upon any one, and teach him or her many things for personal comfort and instruction. But these are not doctrines of the Church, and, however true, they must not be inculcated [i.e., taught and distributed/published] until proper permission is given” (Joseph F. Smith Correspondence, Personal Letterbooks, 93-94, Film Reel 9, Ms. F271).
5. Joseph Fielding Smith: “If a man comes among the Latter-day Saints, professing to have received a vision or a revelation or a remarkable dream, and the Lord has given him such, he should keep it to himself. . . . the Lord will give his revelations in the proper way, to the one who is appointed to receive and dispense the word of God to the members of the Church” (Doctrines of Salvation, 1:288).
6. Harold B. Lee: “Special manifestations should be kept sacred. Some people have had unique testimonies. . . . Some have even published them and had them broadcast throughout the Church. They tell of dreams and of administrations when they have been healed. These are wonderful blessings, but why do they think they have to publicize them all over the Church?” (The Teachings of Harold B. Lee, 137).
7. Boyd K. Packer: “I have learned that strong, impressive spiritual experiences do not come to us very frequently. And when they do, they are generally for our own edification, instruction, or correction. . . . I have come to believe also that it is not wise to continually talk of unusual spiritual experiences. . . . I heard President Marion G. Romney once counsel mission presidents and their wives . . . I do not tell all I know; . . . for I found out that if I talked too lightly of sacred things, thereafter the Lord would not trust me'” (Ensign, Jan. 1983, 53).
Thank you, Lorenna H. You voiced what I feel and I particularly appreciate the blog you referenced. I do not live in Utah, so can't speak for what is going on there, but while it appears some may be taking her books to one extreme, this article in its negativity and criticism seemed to take it to the other. My husband and I read her books, felt a confirmation of the preparations we have already been doing for years--in following the prophet--and appreciated her counsel to pray and receive revelation for ourselves, which we did and felt guided therein. We didn't take it as gospel doctrine nor did it cause any fear. We felt inspired to increase temple attendance and family history, and to me, that is simply a fruit of inspiration. The Lord often uses others to inspire us, whether it be a friend, a book or article, even someone of another faith! On another note, how to I stop getting advertisements and endorsements from you all to buy Thrive food storage? Not interested!
Both my blessing and my mothers blessing speak of disasters to come and to stay strong in our testimony as to be able to help and assist others who are not able to withstand the things that will come to this wicked world . The gospel is wonderful and good news l but gloom and doom are in store for this wicked world and the saints must be prepared for it in every way! Many need to wake up and see the signs
"None of us are given the right to tell others what the Church is going to do in the future."Maurine, Thanks for clearing your thoughts up for me. I agree with you, and your comment that I've quoted above sums up my main concern with Sister Rowe's presentations. I've sometimes cringed when she gave what I felt were too many specifics (I know some people would laugh at me for saying that), though overall I really found what she said very interesting. I'm not an extremist in any sense. I still contribute every paycheck to my 401-K and my children's 529 plan. Anything else would be irresponsible. Everything should be done in wisdom and order. But, I am appalled by the many negative things that have been said about her by so many people who claim to be Latter-day Saints.In any case, we are fortunate to have Prophets and Apostles with stewardship and authority.
I agree with Lorena H -- the book is inspiring and has only helped to SOLIDIFY my already in motion (20 yrs) preparations. And as I listen to the prophets, they are now speaking of our SPIRITUAL preparations. The time for temporal prep is over. It is now time to concentrate on our FAITH and spiritual growth.
in response to those who still defend Julie Rowe's book and other books that are similar, I have to respond that, yes, we can receive personal revelation for ourselves and for those that we have stewardship over, but unless Sister Rowe is your mother, what she has to say isn't for you. I also find it so sad that many saints are "making strides in spiritual or temporal preparation" as a result of this book, rather than because of what the prophets have told us for years. Where is your heart, really?
Maurine here: Bob, when I refer to soothsayers of misery, I am talking about the entire field right now of those predicting end times, not just Julie whose sincerety I don't doubt. What concerns me is the way some members respond to her by now getting prepared for emergencies while prophets have been talking about this for decades. Beyond that, I find that giving people specifics about calamaties, including how the Church will respond, goes where I don't think we should go. None of us are given the right to tell others what the Church is going to do in the future.
Julie Rowe and others like her only destabilize the unstable. For every foolish fearful person in the church like those you descrdibe there are more than ten who are totally complacent. The Brethren have never asked us to stop storing food, etc. but few actually do it. Pres. Benson said we would rue the day we did not prepare. I find no serious problem with Julie Rowe's writing. If she gets some people started with food storage, more the better.
Thank you for this article. I was not even aware of Julie Rowe's dreams and books until I was just trying to add to my food storage and found almost everything at a couple of different online stores out of stock. I then ran across an article in the SLT about her and the impact it was having on people. This article gives the best advice: Follow the counsel of our leaders. The Lord believes in order and will follow His order of things. Our leaders have been counseling us for decades and decades to be self-reliant, spiritually prepared, and temporally prepared. We have not only been counseled to have a food & emergency storage, but also to care for our health so that we could handle any emergency that should arise. If we are following their counsel we need not fear. If and when the time comes, communications will be transmitted to the members as needed for their information and safety, through proper lines of authority. And remember, this isn't just for any catastrophic events of the last days but for any natural event that may occur, such as a major hurricane, earthquake, drought, or any such occurrence. The Lord's church is one of order and He loves us and we need to have faith in him, have faith in our leaders, and do our part. Then not live in fear. Remember, “Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.” (John 14:27.)
"portents of gloom, these soothsayers of misery" Wow, it's very interesting that some say Julie Rowe's messages "do not necessarily reflect Church doctrine or they may distort Church doctrine" but then there's an article like this that equally does not necessarily reflect what Julie Rowe was saying or distorts the message she shared.Really, though, since we've all heard this stuff before the only interesting thing in this article was this line: "Rowe’s book may be sincere and even well intended. What has been disturbing, however, about her book is the response of some Latter-day Saints to its message."Agreed. There have definitely been some extreme responses, and I feel bad for those people. I don't think that was Sister Rowe's intention.I'll probably contradict myself here, but although I really enjoyed Sister Rowe's books, firesides, and radio appearances, there have been things that bothered me, both in what she said (I don't particularly care for her revealing supposed church preparation plans, if true) and the intense feelings and responses of the audience from both her supporters and critics.But still, I'm extremely disappointed in Meridian for referring to her as a "soothsayer of misery." That's just insulting. I don't mean to put Sister Rowe on such a high pedestal, but that sounds like something the ancient Israelites would have called Isaiah or Jeremiah just before the Assyrians and Babylonians came knocking. I'm not saying we should throw in the towel and stop seeking to do good, but any way you look at it, the world's future is not bright. Why else would a book written "for our day" end in the gruesome annihilation of the Nephite people. We live in a world where bad things have happened, now happen, and if the scriptures are true where even worse things will happen. I'm just as disturbed by people's extreme prepper responses as I am about people who seem to feel the world will always be sunshine and roses.
I had heard of the headlines about Mormons panicking and scarfing up emergency supplies, but I did not know the source of the concern. As always, there is a temperate view, and Maurine is one of those sensible voices. Thank you, Maurine.
Excellent article, it's great to be reminded that while we are seeing the last events of the earth's history before the Second Coming, no man knows when He will come.I suspect that many people are fully aware of these signs of the times, but are simply hopeful that He is coming sooner rather than later. It could be because of fear that things are only going to get worse and they don't want it to. It could be because of a desire to feel in control of their situation that is currently out of control. It could even be because they feel that they live righteously and they want the earth to be purged of all wickedness and sin.Whatever the reasons, the best counsel is that which was given here. Look to the prophet and other general authorities as to what we should be doing. Following after the dreams and visions of ordinary people whom the Lord has not called will be a risky -- if not foolish -- path that can only lead to one's own destruction.
Thank you so much for such an enlightening message. Another call to awaken; I"ve wondered so long why so many choose to blindly follow the "doomsday soothsayers." It's almost as though they enjoy hearing something that frightens them so much and blaming the church. How sad when when we forget that we have a living prophet, Thomas S. Monson, whom we look too for revelation and direction. Our Heavenly Father loves us so much, he isn't going to confuse us by sending numerous conflicting revelations to everybody. Please learn to listen to the one and only prophet that has been ordained and we sustain.
This was a great article. Full of wonderful insiight and truth. However, it does leave the reader feeling all people who feel that there is truth in Julie Rowe's experience are blind and ignorant. Could the Holy Ghost really tell us the truth of ALL things, even in a book that may not be all truth for us? Elder Oaks tells us that there are two lines of communication from God. The priesthood line and the personal line and they should be in balance with eachother. Is it in balance to think there is no truth outside of what the prophet says? Of course not. All truth belongs in Mormonism, as Brigham Young has taught. And we are blessed to have the companionship of the Holy Ghost to help us know those truths. There have been many who have followed "false prophets" and there is no discount in that. But is that to scare us into not seeing truth in other's experiences? The Lord, in the last days, needs His people to be confident in their relationship with Him and their reliance on the Holy Ghost for truth. How will we make it without that? This article is also discounting people's personal experiences. Dreams and visions are happening that parallel and compliment many of Rowe's experience. Not that we share them from the pulpit but when we hear others experiences, once again, the Holy Ghost can testify to us the truth of all things and we can recognize even clearer because of our own. I follow the prophet all the way and as exactly as I can. But I also know my personal line of communication is as vital and should be balanced. Fear of "following" others isn't on my radar because I know which way I face and I am confident The Lord will guide me to know truth. Fear is not how He operates. Part of the virtue of charity is to believeth all things. I don't feel like The Lord wants us to find truths from other people as prophets but to be open, not fearful, of all truth. We know The Lord will guide us to truth and we won't be deceived as we treasureth up His word.
Thanks to Maurine for very wise comments that take us back to gospel fundamentals, amidst all this agitation. Two things should dominate in this issue: 1) This is a gospel of peace, and anything that disrupts it should be interpreted as the Adversary's efforts in getting us out of tune with the Spirit; 2) The Day of the Lord will come "as a thief in the night" (2 Peter 3:10), so things are not likely to turn out as those "Prophets of Doom" predict they will.
Maureen, I love this website, I love your writings, and I'm so grateful for what you publish. And I add that on the subject of Julie Rowe, we disagree. I hope to do it agreeably, and be understood. My experience with Julie Rowe's books and interviews has been vastly different than what you have cast in this article. I have never once felt that she is a "doomsdayer", that she incites fear, that she is trying to gain a following, or that she is attempting to give out prophecy that is binding on the readers or so-called followers, or anyone at all. She simply has been asked by the Lord to share her experiences. As I read her books I have felt the Spirit; and as my husband and I have asked the Lord, we have been guided to some very specific things that our family needs to do for preparedness, both spiritual and temporal. We have balanced our prayers with consultation with Priesthood leaders and established Church principles and guidelines. Is this not the pattern that the Lord has given us for learning and growth in any new principle or idea that we are exposed to? It is my experience that we truly can ask God, and receive answers to our prayers. Rather than fear, we have felt excitement, and rather than hunkering down into negativity and withdrawal from society, we are living our lives and hastening the work in the best way we know how. I have no doubt that there are some members of the church, and maybe a lot, who are living as you described, going into debt, not living productive lives, and believing Julie Rowe is the prophet to follow, but in making such a wide generalization, you are missing the fact that there are many, many Latter-day Saints who truly are living better lives than they ever have before and are making wonderful strides in spiritual and temporal preparation, and diligently striving to do all the Brethren have asked to hasten the work. And these are Latter-day Saints that have read Julie Rowe's books and been inspired by them. Please read Eric J. Smith's wonderful blog post for an example of what I'm talking about: https://doctrinalessays.blogspot.com/2015/09/dear-church-members.htmlOnce again, thank you for your wonderful writings, and I hope you are able to understand that there are those of us who are truly grateful for Julie Rowe and her writings, as we are for anyone with inspirational writings (yours included), without being carried away into the negative fruits to which you have referred in this article.
Very well said, and wholeheartedly agreed with. I appreciate Meridian Mag for such sensible comments.
I should think that Roger K Young's popular-in-some-circles "Tent City" prophecy needs to be added to the list of 'spurious materials in circulation'. He has been spreading the same nonsense as Julie Rowe, but for decades longer. Young is causing a lot of people to make excessive, expensive preparations for an event that isn't going to happen. He should be ashamed. But, he is selling a lot of books and, for some people, that can override a lot of shame.
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