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February 8, 2023

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WhitJanuary 22, 2018

There is a good article on this topic in the March 2015 Ensign. The author quotes President J. Reuben Clark, "First Counselor in the First Presidency, suggested two main possibilities for what Satan proposed to do and reminded us that neither would have worked. He explained: “As I read the scriptures, Satan’s plan required one of two things: Either the compulsion of … man, or else saving men in sin. I question whether the intelligence of man can be compelled. Certainly men cannot be saved in sin” Although neither of these possibilities would have worked, we see elements of each in Satan’s efforts and tactics today." Neither would have worked and guessing as to which perversion of Heavenly Father's plan Satan presented is just that, guessing and is not doctrinal.

HermaJanuary 13, 2018

Satan wanted all man kind, not just Adam and Eve.

JamesJanuary 10, 2018

Thank you, Brother Bradshaw, for your observations and integrity when you note that such and such was recorded by William Clayton and Wilford Woodruff. I also appreciate that you noted that we members, having so little information on what actually transpired, have filled in the blanks with our own assumptions. I have been caught up in that practice myself and usually have to revert to revealed doctrine to get back to basics. Revealed word declares that 1/3 of a discrete cohort permitted to strive for glory kept not their First Estate and rebelled. Of the innumerable offspring of exalted beings, clearly a finite number composed the cohort, possibly seen and noted by Abraham as "the noble and great ones", that could come to this earth to develop their capacity to bear a weight of glory. Scripture tells us that a third of that finite quantity rebelled. (It's not possible to take a third part of an infinite quantity.) The Lord instructs us in Section 88 of the D&C that there are varying levels or kingdoms of glory. He also declares that there is "not a kingdom of glory" for all who cannot abide a kingdom of glory. He declares that any who are not sanctified by the law of Christ are relegated to a lesser kingdom of glory or even of no glory. He has laid out the terms and conditions for those lesser kingdoms. So, very basically, without adding any current day LDS assumptions, if we choose to do anything other than abide the law of Christ "they who are not sanctified through the law which I have given unto you, even the law of Christ, must inherit another kingdom," D&C 88:21. Any other "proposal", alternative, wish or desire will keep us from returning home and Lucifer wins another of the 2/3 who did keep their First Estate and did not rebel. Jesus Christ will save every soul who takes upon him His name and abides the law of Christ. He can't do otherwise. I won't get into the Adam and Eve story. The Spirit assures me that the situation in the Garden was much more sophisticated than many of us presume.

Bob BradyJanuary 8, 2018

I think Satan's plan to "destroy the agency of man" involved more than saving man in their sins. I think Satan wanted to remove the idea of sin completely. Satan would have done this by getting rid of the law. 2 Nephi 2:13 tells us "And if ye shall say there is no law, ye shall also say there is no sin. " I think Satan wanted to do away with law completely. Without law there is no opposition. 2 Nephi 2:13 continues, "If ye shall say there is no sin, ye shall also say there is no righteousness. And if there be no righteousness there be no happiness. And if there be no righteousness nor happiness there be no punishment nor misery. And if these things are not there is no God." Ultimately without law, there would be no God. Satan would love that there was no God. The best way to destroy the agency of man and to destroy God, is to remove or destroy the law.

BobJanuary 6, 2018

Great article! I wonder if 2 Nephi 2 provides another clue as to how Satan planned on destroying the agency of man. Specifically, Satan may have tried to destroy the agency of man by removing the law and opposition. Verse 13 says, "And if ye shall say there is no law, ye shall also say there is no sin." What if Satan's plan of universal salvation meant removing the means by which we sin (i.e., the law)? No law = no sin. If we can't sin, then we all get saved. Removing the law would have also removed opposition. Verse 11 tells us that "there is an opposition in all things." It explains that if there is no opposition then everything would "compound in one" and "remain as dead." In essence, "it must needs have been created for a thing of naught" (v. 12). Satan would have destroyed both the agency of man and "the wisdom of God, and his eternal purposes" by carrying out a plan which called for no law.

Todd LillywhiteJanuary 5, 2018

I have long thought that Satan's "proposal" (I don't like using the term plan, partly because it was a lie from the beginning) has so very little to do with coercion. And talking about forcing people to be good (and then somehow that secures their salvation) is a red herring to keep us from learning more about Agency. All we have to do is look at how Satan operates now (and did in the Garden of Eden.) He tells a partial truth and tells us we won't be held accountable, and does everything he can with society to make it so we aren't held accountable for wrongdoing. And he also messes with the repentance process as you mentioned. It bothers me to no end when people say they don't believe in "X" (such as abortion, or same sex marriage.) But, don't think it is right to "impose" that belief on others by supporting laws to proscribe such behavior. They love to say, "That's Satan's plan." No it's not. All you have to do is look at how Heavenly Father works. (I've already mentioned how Satan works.) He sets laws and punishment for their infraction.



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