Scot
Welcome to Meridian Magazine’s Come Follow Me podcast. We’re Scot and Maurine Proctor, and we are delighted to be with you again. this week, as we discuss 1st Samuel chapters 8 through 10, 13, and chapters 15 through 18 in a lesson entitled, “The Battle is the Lord’s.” This title gets us very excited about the things that we’re going to discuss.
Maurine
We have with us today, a special guest, Mark Matthews, who has been a teacher in the seminary and institute program, and also has been a teacher at BYU, specializing in church history and doctrine. He has a PhD in education from Utah State University, and he and his wife, Mandy, live in Springville.
So, Mark, we have here, at the beginning of these chapters, Samuel, who’s been such a powerful leader, but his sons have not followed his way, and so they’ve turned aside from him, and they’ve taken bribes, and they’re just not people who are there to lead Israel. So the people come to Samuel and complain that since his sons walk not in his ways, they want a king. What do you make of that?
Mark Matthews
I think it’s a really interesting dilemma that they face, and what the scriptures say, I think is really powerful, with a great lesson in it. In 1 Samuel chapter 8, verse 5, it says, “Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways. Now make us a king to judge us like all the nations.” I think that last phrase is especially powerful, like all the nations, right? They want to be like everybody else, and I think that is a principle that we can learn from.
Everyone’s doing it. is a strong argument, even still today, for many people. I think it grows out of an insecurity. But when you’re the Lord’s people, you can’t be like everybody else. You can’t be the only true church and be like everybody else. Yet, there’s still something inside most, if not all of us, that wants to blend in, that wants to be like the nations, that wants to be like everybody else, that wants to be like the world. That’s what they’re gonna get in trouble for, is that desire to be like the world, rather than to follow the prophet.
Maurine
And it is ironic, because the Lord has been seeking to create a peculiar people, and the people don’t seem to want to be a peculiar people.
Scot
It reminds me, in a small way, of the story that Gordon B. Hinckley told of his one time doing the wrong thing in school, and he was in trouble, and he was so afraid of how his mother was going to respond, and she sent a note with him back to school that said, “Please excuse Gordon. He was only following the crowd.” From that moment, he just felt like, I never want to do that again. I never want to just follow the crowd. This is what we’re seeing right here in this whole situation at a national level.
Maurine
Well, it’s interesting, it assumes that the crowd has some truth that you ought to follow, and that is not usually the case. The crowd is not known for its great wisdom.
Mark
Absolutely. In fact, I love that story about President Hinckley and another one that I really love is a quotel by Sister Nadauld. Many years ago, she said, “Women of God can never be like women of the world. The world has enough women who are tough. We need women who are tender. There are enough women who are coarse. We need women who are kind. There are enough women who are rude. We need women who are refined. We have enough women of fame and fortune. We need more women of faith. We have enough greed. We need more goodness. We have enough vanity, we need more virtue. We have enough popularity. We need more purity.”
Of course, that same principle applies to men, as well, but that idea that we can’t be the Lord’s covenant people, his special people. and just be like everybody else. We have to stand out. We have to be different, as you pointed out, that’s part of being a peculiar people. That’s part of being a covenant people. That’s the covenant, that we are going be the Lord’s people, and we are going to be different, and set that example to the world, and they seem to be giving up on that ideal, unfortunately.
Maurine
The Lord said, to Samuel that it was a rejection of him, that their wanting a king was a rejection of God as being their king.
Mark
I want to emphasize that point that you made just now. I think that’s really powerful in verse seven. where the Lord is talking to Samuel. It says:
7 And the Lord said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.
That principle, I think, is also really powerful, and one that’s really relevant and applicable today, that he’s essentially saying that when you reject the prophet, you’re rejecting the Lord. I know a lot of people who try and get around. I’ve heard arguments, that say, I’m going to follow the Lord, but I’m not going to follow the prophet. The Lord doesn’t really give room for that. The way he sets it up is the way we follow the Lord is by following his prophet. That’s what makes us a peculiar people is that desire to follow the Lord by following his prophet.
Sometimes that’s challenging. President Harold B. Lee famously said, “There will be some things that take patience and faith. You may not like what comes from the authority of the church. It may contradict your political views. It may contradict your social views. It may interfere with some of your social life. But if you listen to these things, as if from the mouth of the Lord himself, with patience and faith, the promise is that the gates of hell shall not prevail against you.”
I just think that’s a profound lesson that we need to recognize, that when we follow a prophet, we’re following the Lord, and when we reject the prophet in his counsel, we are rejecting the Lord, and the Lord has repeatedly stated that.
Scot
You know, I love that, because it reminds me of one of my favorite scriptures, and when I taught adult institute classes for years and years I almost always ended my class in some way that led it back to Doctrine and Covenants 1:38:
“What I, the Lord, have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself, and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice, or by the voice of my servants, it is the same”
I loved what you quoted from Section 21 about the “gates of hell will not prevail against us” if we will follow the prophet, isn’t that timely counsel for right now?
Mark
It really is, because when you just kind of take a step back, and you don’t limit it to the idea of kings, you recognize the dilemma is, we have a people who are supposed to be the Lord’s people, who want to be like the world, and the prophet is asking them to do something differently, and that’s their challenge. They have this dilemma. Are we going to follow the prophet, or are we going to follow the world? We see a lot of examples of this in the world today, whether it be social and political issues or dress and grooming. There is a lot of examples of the Lord’s people with this very test, this very choice. Am I going to follow the standards the Lord has given through his living prophet? Or am I going to follow the ways of the world? And I hope we make the right choice.
Maurine
There is this warning from the Lord about what a king will do. We know from King Benjamin, if we could always have a righteous king, that would be one thing, but that isn’t the way it is. Most people who assume power, especially the power of a king, use it to their great advantage and to the disadvantage of the people. So the Lord lists so many things that a king will bring, and among them, in verse 16:
“16 And he will take your menservants, and your maidservants, and your goodliest young men, and your asses, and put them to his work.
“17 He will take the tenth of your sheep: and ye shall be his servants.
“18 And ye shall cry out in that day because of your king which ye shall have chosen you; and the Lord will not hear you in that day.”
It is so interesting that the Lord warns, I’m giving you this information for your good. I’m telling you the only way to be happy, and the people still won’t follow. There is some attraction with being like everyone else, and with having a king that they just insist on.
It reminds me of the Book of Mormon, talking about Kings 2, and Mosiah 29. He says in verse 12:
“Now, it’s better that a man should be judged of God than of man, for the judgments of God are always just, but the judgments of man are not always just.”
Then in Mosiah 29:16:
“Now I say unto you that because all men are not just, it is not expedient that you should have a king or kings to rule over you. “
So apparently, this is an impulse in the Book of Mormon, as well as in the Old Testament, that people seem to want a king, and they won’t take the Lord as their king.
Mark
In fact, what’s kind of fun is the Book of Mormon figures this out. You know, the Old Testament, they start off with judges, and then they move to kings because they want to be, like, the world, and the Nephites, they just kind of adopt that same thing that they learned in Jerusalem. They start with kings and over time, they realize, no, actually, kings can be quite dangerous. King Noah teaches them that, and I love that point that you made.
If all of them could be like King Benjamin, then having kings would be great, but too often we get King Noah’s, and they cause so much trouble, so let’s go to a system of judges. You see them kind of revert back to this idea of judges that Samuel’s originally pushing for. They eventually figure it out as a people. But sadly, they have to learn the lesson the hard way.
Maurine
It makes you think of Joseph Smith’s famous comment.
Scot
Absolutely. Joseph said, “It is the nature and disposition of almost every man, when he gets a little authority, as he supposes, that he immediately begins to exercise unrighteous dominion.”
Then Joseph went on further in the original record. He said, And that’s for a righteous man we’re talking about. What about men of the world? What about people who don’t have the Spirit of the Lord with them? They’re absolutely going to take unrighteous dominion as their, as their bent. The whole thing, though, reminds me as we’re talking about some faults, political situations that come into nations, that with the real system that will be, finally, the time of great peace, it is with a righteous king. It’s the King of kings, and Lord of Lords.
We call The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints the kingdom of God on the earth, and the kingdom denotes that there is a king, and our king is Jesus Christ and that’s the one that we want to go towards.
Maurine
This issue of kingship was even a question in the American colonies, as we all know, there was a time when there were some people who thought that George Washington should be the king. According to a legend, Washington rejected the overture when they asked him and said that I did not defeat King George III to become King George I.
At one point in the Revolutionary War, great power was turned over to George Washington, and virtually unlimited powers to maintain the war effort and preserve civil society, powers not unlike those assumed in an earlier era by Roman dictators. He shouldered that responsibility, but gave that authority back as soon as possible George Washington also could see the wisdom of not having a king. You’re right, the only kingdom we want is the kingdom of God, where Jesus Christ is our king.
Let’s talk a little bit about how Saul is found and who he is and how he trips up.
Mark
This is a powerful story. Saul is introduced in Samuel chapter 9, in a phrase that I really like. It says, “And he had a son, whose name was Saul, a choice young man, and a goodly, and there was not among the children of Israel a goodlier person than he, for his shoulders and upward, he was higher than any of the people.” That’s where we get the phrase head and shoulders above the rest, right? Saul was literally head and shoulders above the rest, and that’s the introduction we get of Saul, of what kind of leader he’s going to be. He looks the part. He is a dynamic, mighty man.
He starts out humbly, but ultimately is going to give way to pride, as we’re going to see in this account.
Maurine
What’s interesting is that Saul starts out little in his own eyes. This what Samuel said. In fact, he hides during his coronation. He is not this proud and mighty king that he becomes. But what happens to him is this corruption of power. That is a process that we see unfolding before our eyes.
What are some of the things that begin to indicate that Saul is becoming corrupted by his own power?
Mark
That’s the key to the story. In 1 Sam. 9:21 it says.
“21 And Saul answered and said, Am not I a Benjamite, of the smallest of the tribes of Israel? and my family the least of all the families of the tribe of Benjamin? wherefore then speakest thou so to me?”
You see this glimpse of his humility, as he starts out, that he’s shocked, to be honored in this way, to be appointed king. Then, of course, Samuel anoints him to be king. We read that in 1st Samuel chapter 10.
“Then Samuel took a vial of oil and poured it upon his head and kissed him and said, Is it not because the Lord hath anointed thee to be captain over his inheritance?”
He recognizes that the Lord has anointed him,
Everything starts out right. He’s humble, he’s good, he’s prepared for this. First Samuel 10, so he is anointed as king and it says something really beautiful about this process of him becoming the king. I think, is particularly inspiring. It says in verse 6:
“The Spirit of the Lord will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, [meaning that the school of the prophets]. and shalt be turned into another man.”
Then in verse 9, it repeats that idea. It says, “God gave him another heart.”
I think it’s a beautiful idea. We all recognize that with the gospel of Jesus Christ, we’re meant to be become new people in Christ, that we’re meant to be born again, to be converted, to be changed, to have a change of heart. We recognize that that happens, at baptism,when we receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, but what this story, I think, adds to it, is when we receive a new calling, it’s also an invitation to have a greater change of heart, to become another person.
We’re kind of clued me in on this was reading Elder Bruce R. McConkie’s biography, where it talks about when he was called as an apostle. Now, this is a man who had already been a general authority for almost 30 years. He’s called as an apostle, and it is overwhelming to him, as it is with every apostle that I’ve heard speak about this.
One of the verses that really gave him special comfort were the verses we just read. The Lord comforted him, that he would give him another heart. I heard the same thing with Elder Jeffrey R. Holland. I was in a small company of religious educators that he spoke to, and he talked about his own experience with being called as an apostle, where he felt the Lord tell him that he wanted him, but not the old him. He wanted a new version of him, a better version of him. and how he’s still struggling to try and give that offering to the Lord, but that’s what the Lord expects of us.
My own calling as bishop, there’s that feeling that you want to be more, that you’re okay, that you’re good, but you want to be better. That call to be more and to be better is not just a high profile kind of calling that invites us to do that, but every calling we receive invites us to step up and be more and responsive to that call and serve the Lord in a way that we haven’t before. This new heart is more than being baptized and confirmed that original change of heart when we joined the church, but every time we receive a call to serve the Lord, it’s again an opportunity for us to be more, to have a new heart, and to become something better and more than we are.
Scot
I love that Mark, and I think it’d be a good prayer for each of us, as we do approach any calling, or even a new calling as a grandparent, or as a parent, that we ask the Lord to give us a new heart.
I remember so clearly, many years ago teaching gospel doctrine in a ward we were in and our stake president, Russ Tueller, who was just a wonderful, wonderful man and someone everyone loved, was released and became a second gospel doctrine teacher. We switched off in our teaching every other week. As soon as he came in, I said, president, what do you want me to do? He said, “Oh, no, no. I’m not president. I’m just Russ Tueller, and I’m the junior companion here, so you just tell me what you want me to do. It was a new heart for him, because, you know, he went on to become a mission president, and he was a temple president, and he was just that kind of person—he and his wife, Chris and just wonderful, humble people. He really taught me a lesson that I’ve never forgotten, that wherever you serve, you really do have to have a new heart. If you’re called into the primary, and you think, I’ve never taught in primary before, I don’t think I should be in the primary, you have to really pray for that new heart.
Mark
Absolutely. In fact, I heard a wonderful example of this, just last Sunday. A young woman class president was about to be released, and we invited her to speak, and it was just so sweet to hear her share how this calling of being the young women class president had changed her. It was apparent to me, and I talked to her mom afterwards, and her big sister, and we all talked about the difference it made in her life. She, who is normally kind of quiet and shy, reserved young woman, reached out to minister to the other girls, to pray for them. You heard that as she gave that talk. It was so touching, the change that had happened in her heart because of her service.
That’s the invitation. Every calling we get, it doesn’t have to be king of Israel is an invitation from the Lord to be more, to get a new heart, and to change in this new service that we find ourselves in.
Maurine
Unfortunately, Saul couldn’t hang on to that canoe heart, which reminds us that a new heart has to be renewed constantly. We see many mistakes that he made, but two of them are clear in these chapters. One is that he was waiting for Saul to come and offer a burnt offering, and he waited, and to him, to his idea, Samuel was late, because they had to fight a battle. Saul decided to offer the burnt offering himself, taking unto himself authority that was not given to him.
Of course, when Samuel came, he was very concerned and very upset with him. The Lord said, “It repenteth me that I have set up Saul to be king, for he has turned back from following me and hath not performed my commandments and it grieved Samuel, and he cried unto the Lord all night.”
The phrase “it repenteth me,” means in the Hebrew root, “to sigh.” The Lord is sighing, that he has set up Saul. We see other mistakes that Saul made. He was told that he was to utterly destroy Amalek, and all that they had, their sheep, their camels, all of their oxen, everything, and he didn’t do that. even though that was his assignment. He made his own decision and did not follow what the Lord asked, and again, this made him unfit to be the king of Israel, because he wouldn’t follow God. He has this serious flaw in his leadership.
With the kinds of mistakes that so begins to show, Samuel realizes that he’s going to have to anoint a new king, and, in fact, he worries that Saul will take his life. It is Samuel, who is worried that Saul is so upset, he’s going to take Samuel’s life. That shows us how far Saul has gone in his pride and self-seeking.
In fact, Samuel said, “How can I go? Is Saul here it? He will kill me. And the Lord said, take an heifer with thee and say, I am come to sacrifice to the Lord. And the Lord sent Samuel to Bethlehem, to the sons of Jesse, to find this new king to anoint.”
Mark
Can I say a little word about Saul before we move on? I loved what you said about renewing the new heart. Elder Renlund talks about that as a heart doctor. We have to keep our heart in check so that we don’t revert back to the natural man. We see that, unfortunately, with Saul. You pointed out, he offers his first strike against him as this prideful attempt to take over what Samuel’s job was and offer the sacrifice. I think it’s striking that the Lord uses that same example of Saul to warn the prophet Joseph Smith.
I think a lot of people don’t catch this, that in the famous story of the loss of the 116 pages, the Lord warns Joseph Smith, for although a man may have many revelations, and have power to do many mighty works, yet if he boasts in his own strength, and sets at naught the counsels of God, and follows after the dictates of his own will and carnal desires, he must fall, and incur the vengeance of a just God upon him.
I’d read that 100 times before I realized that the Lord isn’t just giving, like, theoretical examples here. He is pointing out three examples of mighty men in the Old Testament who fell. Who boasted in his own strength? There’s Samson. Who set at naught the counsels of God, that’s Saul right here and in the next chapter. Who followed after the carnal desires? That was King David. So, he’s given these striking examples of mighty leaders who fell because of these problems. We’re going to see that with Saul.
I think, is particularly powerful, and that is that he is told to utterly destroy. He’s given this straight commandment that he’s supposed to destroy everything, and he comes back, and he is self congratulatory, He tells Samuel, “Hey, I did exactly what you told me this time,” and Samuel says, “How come I hear the noise of animals?”
Saul said, “Oh, well, these, we saved the flocks because we wanted to offer them for animal sacrifice. That’s when Samuel famously says, yo obey is better, right? The exact verse he says is,“Hath the Lord is great to light and burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the Lord. Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.”
The point he’s making isn’t that the law of obedience is better than the law of sacrifice, the point he’s making is, don’t make excuses. It’s better just to be obedient than to make excuses for why we don’t have to obey the Lord, for making ourselves the exception.
I think that is such a powerful and relevant point. Too often when the Lord speaks through his prophet, we say, Oh, well, I’m an exception to that rule. Oh, well, here’s my excuse for why I don’t have to follow it.”
This is the Lord through his prophet, saying, No, it’s better to just be obedient. to just obey the Lord. That’s the best thing, rather than to make yourself an exception and come up with excuses and loopholes for why you don’t need to obey the Lord.
Elder Anderson shares a powerful story of a young man in Brazil who joins the church, wants to be a missionary and finds himself in a situation where he has to take care of his family. He reads that verse, and it just inspires him that he needs to go on a mission, and it’s better to just be obedient to what the Lord has said.
I think that’s one of the great takeaway lessons we can learn from Saul. It is that when we get caught up in our pride, and we’re above following the counsel of the prophet, we find ourselves in great danger. It’s better just to be obedient, to obey the Lord, and follow the counsel of the prophet.
Maurine
Isn’t it so ironic that we would seek to advise the Lord, the most intelligent and mightiest of us all, and we have a better idea for him? It really is so arrogant, and yet we fall prey to it all the time. We’re in a position now where Samuel has to find the next king in Israel.
Scot
I do love when Samuel is sent to Bethlehem to this very lowly village, and there he’s supposed to pick out a new king that will be anointed. He goes to the house of Jesse, and he has all these strapping sons. These are men of valor. These are men who go to war. These are men who really are impressive. He looks at them from the eldest down, and he’s thinking about each one of them, “Oh, yeah, this is definitely the king”, and the Lord said, “No, it’s not he”. The Lord finally says to him, “Look not on his countenance or on the height of his stature, because I have refused him. The Lord seeth not as man seeth, for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart.”
He still continues going through all these brothers, and there are many of them. There are nine or 10 brothers here, and now, Samuel said,” Do you have any others?” And he said, “Well, there remaineth yet the youngest, and behold, he keepeth the sheep.”
He was almost a little bit reserved in saying, well, he’s just like a shepherd boy. He was just out there taking care of the sheep. Then Samuel said unto Jesse, “Send and fetch him, for we will not sit down until he come hither.” And when he came, the Spirit of the Lord came upon the Samuel, and he says, arise, this is the one whom I have chosen, and then he anoints him to be king.
At this point in the story, what a perfect example David is of humility and of strength, and the Lord gives us that lesson of looking upon the heart. Here, indeed, was a man whose heart was like unto the Lord’s, at this point.
Mark
You see the powerful contrast from Saul, who was, you know, head and shoulders above the rest, as it said, and he really looks the part of a king. It’s easy look at those outward things and figure out who should be the leader. This is a powerful lesson to us that the Lord can see things that we can’t. The Lord seeth the heart and that doesn’t just mean, that he’s going to pick the most righteous person, but that he sees inside a person–what their potential is and what he needs. He calls people according to the needs that he has for them and what he desires for them and their service.
I love this. When Elder Renlund was called as an apostle, he shared this, and I think is right in line with this story. He said, “Decades ago, when I was called to be the bishop of a war in the eastern United States, my brother, slightly older and much wiser than I, called me on the phone. He said, ‘You need to know that the Lord hasn’t called you because of anything you have done. In your case, it is probably, in spite of what you have done. The Lord has called you for what he needs to do through you, and that will only happen if you do it his way.”
I think that’s just really powerful, to recognize that it’s not even necessarily what we’ve done. It’s that the Lord sees in us what we may not even be able to see in ourselves. He can see our hearts. He can see our potential. He can see the use he has for us, and he calls us accordingly. I think that’s beautiful.
Scot
This reminds me of a song that was produced for the Liken unto Us scripture videos that were done years ago. In this song, Saul and David sing this duet, and it’s so powerful, because Saul realizes how he used to be like David, and David tries to say to Saul, But the Lord will give you mercy, if you repent, and I think it’s worthy of hearing that song right now, and just listening carefully to the lyrics as we enjoy this beautiful duet between these two, King Saul and the future King David.
[Insert song]
Maurine
I find that song so extremely moving. This brings us to a story that is so famous every child can repeat it. This is the David and Goliath story that’s found in 1st Samuel chapter 17. As we know, the Philistines are the great enemy of the Israelites, and they have come to war in mighty ways, and what they have finally decided is the fate of the two armies was going to be determined by the outcome of a single battle by two champions, one representing each side.
The Philistines have the perfect champion. His name is Goliath. My goodness, that word has come to mean so many things to us, even in our culture today. But Goliath is a giant. We learn that he is six cubits in his span, and that would be nine and a half feet tall. Some scholars say, ‘No, this is more like 7.8 feet tall,.’Either way, he is huge. He has the weight of a coat of arms upon him that’s 5,000 shekels of brass between his shoulders, which would vary anywhere from 78 to 178 pounds, so even his mail is just so heavy and formidable, and he’s got brass down his legs, and he is just there, all armed, and nobody wants to go against him as he mocks and mimics the Israelites day in and day out. No one will come against him to represent Israel.
Scot
I think this is the great typical story for all of our lives, but I especially like the details of this, because this Philistine, this Goliath of Gath, is just berating the armies of Israel, and saying, “Don’t you have anyone that’s brave enough to come and fight against me?” Even Saul himself is afraid as he’s leading the armies. They just all look upon him, and they’re all afraid.
David then comes upon the scene, and here he is, still a shepherd boy and he says, and this is in 1st Samuel 17, starting in verse 32. David says to Saul, “No man’s heart fail because of him, thy servant will go and fight with this Philippine.” He’s offering to fight this giant, and here he is, this little shepherd boy.
Maurine
He’s just come to bring supplies to his brothers. That’s it. He’s just come to bring food and then he’s supposed to leave.
Scot
David is astonished that no one will step forward and put this man to rest, and Saul says to David, “Thou art not able to go against this Philistine to fight with him, for thou art but a youth, and he, a man of war, from his youth. And David said unto Saul, Thy servant kept his father’s sheep, and there came a lion and a bear, and took a lamb out of the flock, and I went after him, and smote him, and delivered it out of his mouth. And when he arose against me, I caught him by his beard, and smote him, and slew him. Thy servant slew both the lion and the bear, and this uncircumcised Philistine shall be as one of them, seeing he hath defied the armies of the living God.”
David said, moreover, “The Lord that delivered me out of the paw of the lion and out of the paw of the bear, he will deliver me out of the hand of this Philistine, and Saul said unto David, go, and the Lord be with thee.”
Mark
I think that’s one of the key parts of the story, is that it’s the Lord. What offends David when he sees Goliath is the way Goliath is talking about the armies of the Lord. And he considers this blasphemous. How dare this guy speak to the Lord and his people this way? When he tells them, “I can do this, I killed the bear, I killed the lion.” No, it’s the Lord. He delivered me from the bear. He delivered me before. He can do this again.
The whole time the way David speaks of it, even when he faces Goliath, is he gives the credit to the Lord, and he recognizes the source of his strength, is the Lord. I think that’s key to the story to appreciating and understanding. This isn’t David killing Goliath. That’s not how David saw it. This is the Lord’s slaying Goliath through David. David is the instrument, and I love that he always clearly sees himself that way.
Maurine
That’s what I love about it, too. He will not let this Philistine defy the armies of the living God. It’s interesting to me, too, that the Lord actually gave him the experience with the lion and the bear, because that is what began to prepare him. I think that the Lord prepares each of us in that way by having experiences that get us ready for the new and additional things he wants us to do.
I think about Nephi making a bow when his bow was broken, which prepared him to build a ship. You begin to learn line upon line that the Lord will be with you. He will not leave you, and it is in his strength that you’re able to do all these things. So, David’s faith shines above everyone in Israel here at this point, because he is thinking of this battle clearly in terms of the Lord is with him, and the Lord can do all things.
Mark
Yes, that’s exactly right, that these experiences in the past have strengthened his faith and confidence in the Lord, so that when he faces Goliath, I love the courage with which he faces Goliath. He knows the Lord’s going to be with him now because he’s been with him before.
Scot
I’m reminded, Maurine, of that time that we were in Bethany at the tomb of Lazarus, and that young man there, he was so kind to us. He was showing us how to use the sling, like David used the sling, and he had these rocks that he put in the sling, and he started spinning them around, and he could just hit anything. Those things were firing out of that sling, like, I couldn’t believe. It just put this in my mind visually, then David said to the Philistine, this is in verse 45 of 1 Samuel 17.
“Thou comest to me with a sword and with a spear and with a shield. But I come to thee in the name of the Lord of hosts, the God of the armies of Israel, whom thou hast defied.
“This day will the Lord deliver thee into mine hand, and I will smite thee and take thine head from thee, and I will give the carcasses of the host of the Philistines this day, unto the fowls of the air, and to the wild beasts of the earth, that all the earth may know that there is a God in Israel.”
Then he runs towards him with his sling, and he doesn’t just say, come and get me. He starts running towards him, and he’s twirling that sling, and he’s so accurate that he sinks it right into his head, right into his forehead, and drops him. Then he takes his head off, just like he said, and it’s all in the power of the Lord, and through his faith in the Lord, God of hosts.
Mark
I love that the Lord tells a good story. He sets this up to be a beautiful, perfect story. He stages this to be dramatic, right? The lesson isn’t just that God roots for the underdog. It’s not the fact that David is weaker and smaller. That’s not why God is on his side. God’s on his side because of his faith and his faithfulness. But him being smaller and weaker dramatically shows that it’s God’s strength, just like David has recognized all along, that it’s God’s strength.
I love that the Lord often does that. He picks the weak things, the small things to prove that very point. I think of that with missionaries out in the field. You think of the miracles that happen through our missionaries and they’re just a bunch of teenagers, 18 and 19 year old kids, many of whom have never been to college, and they’re sent out there with the power and strength of the Lord, and they do miracles.
I think, is what makes the story of David and Goliath so powerful and so famous. There are other similar stories, you know, Gideon, diminishing his army down to 300 to beat the large army of his enemies, but nothing more dramatic than David and Goliath. It’s synonymous with that small versus big. But it’s more than that, it’s the Lord being on your side. If the Lord is on your side, you can beat every Goliath. You can win every battle, because the Lord will be with you, and David recognizes that. Powerfully, courageously.
I think as we recognize that also, we make the choices to get the Lord on our side, we can win our battles also, and we can defeat every Goliath.
Maurine
I love that, because so often, we talk about this story in terms of little things can be big things, and that isn’t the entire story. It’s like you said, it doesn’t matter the size of something. If God is with you, and you are in a covenant with God, and, you have sought to serve him, and he is clearly with you, then any Goliath could come down. All of us will face Goliaths.
They may not be giants who are threatening our armies, but we face our own Goliaths in our lives, things that just seem too big for us, too much for us to handle. A death of someone dear, a disease we didn’t want and didn’t anticipate, a calamity that just comes upon us out of nowhere. We face our Goliaths, and this story is a story for everybody, because we can face them, no matter how big they are, if the Lord is on our side. It’s, as we face him, that we find out, that the Lord is with us, and it changes everything about life for us, once we truly, truly understand that, and we seek to serve him, so we have him with us.
Scot
Thank you so much for being with us today. That’s all for today. We have delighted having Mark Matthews with us today, and joining in this wonderful discussion. Thanks, as always, to Jenny Oaks Baker for the music, which accompanies this podcast, and to our producer, Michaela Proctor Hutchins. Have a wonderful week, and see you next time.
