To Frank Carroll -- There is a promise of eternal progression, but only within the celestial kingdom. There are too many people out there that believe that they can progress from one kingdom to the next. This is wrong. If we could do that, then what would be our purpose here on earth? Why have a judgement? What need would we have for grace?
Ted GibbonsOctober 4, 2015
Brother Carroll, Thank yoku for you comments and insights. I suppose that I should have spent more time on the atonement, although I did say "the changes came from repentance and hard work. They always do, except in our hearts when the Lord causes a mighty change." Perhaps a better approach would have been to say that we are "saved by grace [or changed by grace] after all that we can do." There is no doubt that without divine assistance no change will have eternal implications. Bukt is equally true that we will never be forced to change, or changed without our consent. Ted Gibbons
Ty PritchettOctober 4, 2015
Frank--who says the end holds no promise?
Carol WightOctober 2, 2015
I appreciate the comment about a marriage crippled. So many times we are told that we cannot get to the highest degree if we are not married. I believe more emphasis needs to be placed on whether we are living a celestial marriage in the present. A mediocre relationship will not get us there.
Brian KingdonOctober 2, 2015
Bro. Gibbons,
Thank you for your excellent article. I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment you express that change doesn't come about magically, and that we choose our ultimate destiny.
I'd like to point out that most of the scriptures you cite make reference to the sons of perdition who refuse to repent and place themselves outside the reach of the Atonement. For example, those who "inherit...endless misery [and] the kingdom of the devil" (Alma 41:3-6); are "filthy" or "filthy still" (1 Ne. 15:33; 2 Ne 9:15-16: Alma 7:21; Morm. 9:14); are possessed by the spirit of the devil (Alma 34:34-35, verse 35 shows that the "spirit" spoken of in verse 34 is the devil's, not ours); are "unhappy" or "unhappy still" (Morm. 9:14)--all these scriptures are speaking of the sons of perdition, not of the rest of humanity generally. Relatively few will choose to follow this dreadful path to its miserable and wretched end. All the rest will repent and accept Christ either in this life or in the spirit world (see D&C 138:58-59), and in the resurrection will be among the righteous spoken of in the Book of Mormon and other scriptures.
Though we may struggle mightily in this life with contentious relationships, addictions, mental and emotional problems, selfishness, and sin, if we put our trust in the Savior and allow Him to help us change, we can be assured that we will be victorious over every enemy (even ourselves!) in the end.
Frank CarrollOctober 2, 2015
This author fails to account for grace, for the glory of the teleost oak world, for addiction without drugs, for suicides from unrelenting depression. This article proposes a spiritual view without spirit. We are not born in sin but tested by it. We are not doomed because we have the miracle of grace and the promise of eternal progression. This article is fundamentally flawed doctrine without the hope of the Atonement as leavening. Have a General Authority correct this brother with love. I get his point but in it is no hope. Why endure to the end if the end holds no promise ?
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Lisa N.October 6, 2015
To Frank Carroll -- There is a promise of eternal progression, but only within the celestial kingdom. There are too many people out there that believe that they can progress from one kingdom to the next. This is wrong. If we could do that, then what would be our purpose here on earth? Why have a judgement? What need would we have for grace?
Ted GibbonsOctober 4, 2015
Brother Carroll, Thank yoku for you comments and insights. I suppose that I should have spent more time on the atonement, although I did say "the changes came from repentance and hard work. They always do, except in our hearts when the Lord causes a mighty change." Perhaps a better approach would have been to say that we are "saved by grace [or changed by grace] after all that we can do." There is no doubt that without divine assistance no change will have eternal implications. Bukt is equally true that we will never be forced to change, or changed without our consent. Ted Gibbons
Ty PritchettOctober 4, 2015
Frank--who says the end holds no promise?
Carol WightOctober 2, 2015
I appreciate the comment about a marriage crippled. So many times we are told that we cannot get to the highest degree if we are not married. I believe more emphasis needs to be placed on whether we are living a celestial marriage in the present. A mediocre relationship will not get us there.
Brian KingdonOctober 2, 2015
Bro. Gibbons, Thank you for your excellent article. I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment you express that change doesn't come about magically, and that we choose our ultimate destiny. I'd like to point out that most of the scriptures you cite make reference to the sons of perdition who refuse to repent and place themselves outside the reach of the Atonement. For example, those who "inherit...endless misery [and] the kingdom of the devil" (Alma 41:3-6); are "filthy" or "filthy still" (1 Ne. 15:33; 2 Ne 9:15-16: Alma 7:21; Morm. 9:14); are possessed by the spirit of the devil (Alma 34:34-35, verse 35 shows that the "spirit" spoken of in verse 34 is the devil's, not ours); are "unhappy" or "unhappy still" (Morm. 9:14)--all these scriptures are speaking of the sons of perdition, not of the rest of humanity generally. Relatively few will choose to follow this dreadful path to its miserable and wretched end. All the rest will repent and accept Christ either in this life or in the spirit world (see D&C 138:58-59), and in the resurrection will be among the righteous spoken of in the Book of Mormon and other scriptures. Though we may struggle mightily in this life with contentious relationships, addictions, mental and emotional problems, selfishness, and sin, if we put our trust in the Savior and allow Him to help us change, we can be assured that we will be victorious over every enemy (even ourselves!) in the end.
Frank CarrollOctober 2, 2015
This author fails to account for grace, for the glory of the teleost oak world, for addiction without drugs, for suicides from unrelenting depression. This article proposes a spiritual view without spirit. We are not born in sin but tested by it. We are not doomed because we have the miracle of grace and the promise of eternal progression. This article is fundamentally flawed doctrine without the hope of the Atonement as leavening. Have a General Authority correct this brother with love. I get his point but in it is no hope. Why endure to the end if the end holds no promise ?
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