Lynn Vinilus - some may not know that if there is active disciplinary action going on for someone, they are not allowed to move their membership records. So even though she moved to Utah, her records remained in KS until she followed through on prior discipline actions. Receiving a letter to a disciplinary council is not ever the first step taken but happens after people have had many chances to stop doing what they are doing that is harmful.
Lynn VinilusApril 21, 2021
I agree with what you say here but the issue I don’t understand is why leaders from the stake she left a year and a half are the ones calling her in. Also, why was she required to travel to Kansas with 1 week notice. All of that seems a bit strange to me.
BOBApril 21, 2021
"They may be the ones doing 'spiritual violence.'" Meanwhile, in secular society, Those who keep the peace are called violent. Those who foment violence are called peaceful. All the while, criminals are called victims.
David Clarke Pruden, Sr.April 21, 2021
It is always unfortunate when any individual's personal life choices, which could have remained private, become fodder for public debate. However, in an age when social media is a daily vehicle for such discussions - often at the behest of the individual themselves - a reasoned response is sometimes required. Thank you to the authors for providing some balance on this challenging subject and may we feel prompted to exercise compassion and consideration for all involved.
Andrew J. CurrieApril 21, 2021
Thanks for a wonderfully thorough discourse on the need for and nature of church councils. Well done! I'm always fascinated people who proclaim that, before taking any course of action, we should ask "What would Jesus do?" always conclude Jesus would tolerate any form of sin. After all, didn't He accept the woman taken in adultery? They can never reconcile His violence towards the money changers in the temple or the violence of the god of the Old Testament (e.g., The Flood, the Canaanites, the priests of Baal, the Egyptians at the Red Sea, et.al.). In his succinct declaration, Elder Richard G. Scott explained Jesus's different behaviors and taught the first question one should in determining "what would Jesus do?" He declared, "The Lord sees weakness differently than rebellion". That is the crux of the matter. If one is merely "weak", they will repent when their membership is on the line. If they are "rebellious", they are apt to go public in their search for validation. Of course, determining whether one is merely "weak" or "rebellious" requires a spirit of discernment, hence, the caution to not judge unrighteously. It has been my experience as a clerk and as a judge in these councils that the person for whom the council was convened always makes that decision very simple. In her case any "spiritual violence" that might have taken place occurred when she tore herself away from the Holy Ghost.
ShaneApril 21, 2021
One thing that is so important to understand about excommunication, is that sometimes it’s the most merciful thing to happen to a person who is not keeping their covenants. When we are baptized we make a covenant with God. When we receive our endowment we make additional covenants with God. When excommunication occurs, those covenants are removed from the individual. They are no longer bound by the covenants. This is merciful! Because they are no longer breaking the covenant, they are not as condemned in the eternal perspective. If they are continually breaking the covenants, what a relief to no longer be bound by the covenants. Church discipline is a blessing and an experience of pure love of God. Sometimes the best way to show that love is excommunication.
Daryl GibsonApril 21, 2021
I found it telling that at the end of the Washington Post story, this LDS therapist refers to Church members as "they, " not ,"we."
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vinelionApril 22, 2021
Lynn Vinilus - some may not know that if there is active disciplinary action going on for someone, they are not allowed to move their membership records. So even though she moved to Utah, her records remained in KS until she followed through on prior discipline actions. Receiving a letter to a disciplinary council is not ever the first step taken but happens after people have had many chances to stop doing what they are doing that is harmful.
Lynn VinilusApril 21, 2021
I agree with what you say here but the issue I don’t understand is why leaders from the stake she left a year and a half are the ones calling her in. Also, why was she required to travel to Kansas with 1 week notice. All of that seems a bit strange to me.
BOBApril 21, 2021
"They may be the ones doing 'spiritual violence.'" Meanwhile, in secular society, Those who keep the peace are called violent. Those who foment violence are called peaceful. All the while, criminals are called victims.
David Clarke Pruden, Sr.April 21, 2021
It is always unfortunate when any individual's personal life choices, which could have remained private, become fodder for public debate. However, in an age when social media is a daily vehicle for such discussions - often at the behest of the individual themselves - a reasoned response is sometimes required. Thank you to the authors for providing some balance on this challenging subject and may we feel prompted to exercise compassion and consideration for all involved.
Andrew J. CurrieApril 21, 2021
Thanks for a wonderfully thorough discourse on the need for and nature of church councils. Well done! I'm always fascinated people who proclaim that, before taking any course of action, we should ask "What would Jesus do?" always conclude Jesus would tolerate any form of sin. After all, didn't He accept the woman taken in adultery? They can never reconcile His violence towards the money changers in the temple or the violence of the god of the Old Testament (e.g., The Flood, the Canaanites, the priests of Baal, the Egyptians at the Red Sea, et.al.). In his succinct declaration, Elder Richard G. Scott explained Jesus's different behaviors and taught the first question one should in determining "what would Jesus do?" He declared, "The Lord sees weakness differently than rebellion". That is the crux of the matter. If one is merely "weak", they will repent when their membership is on the line. If they are "rebellious", they are apt to go public in their search for validation. Of course, determining whether one is merely "weak" or "rebellious" requires a spirit of discernment, hence, the caution to not judge unrighteously. It has been my experience as a clerk and as a judge in these councils that the person for whom the council was convened always makes that decision very simple. In her case any "spiritual violence" that might have taken place occurred when she tore herself away from the Holy Ghost.
ShaneApril 21, 2021
One thing that is so important to understand about excommunication, is that sometimes it’s the most merciful thing to happen to a person who is not keeping their covenants. When we are baptized we make a covenant with God. When we receive our endowment we make additional covenants with God. When excommunication occurs, those covenants are removed from the individual. They are no longer bound by the covenants. This is merciful! Because they are no longer breaking the covenant, they are not as condemned in the eternal perspective. If they are continually breaking the covenants, what a relief to no longer be bound by the covenants. Church discipline is a blessing and an experience of pure love of God. Sometimes the best way to show that love is excommunication.
Daryl GibsonApril 21, 2021
I found it telling that at the end of the Washington Post story, this LDS therapist refers to Church members as "they, " not ,"we."
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