As a female, it is so frustrating to keep being told how attractive I need to be, yet almost no counsel to the men to work on their fitness and attractiveness level. Total double standard. I am active and considered fairly attractive, but keep meeting men with an entitled of attitude of " you have to work hard to keep me interested, but I don't have to do that for you, because of " biology.. Oh and how men my same age won't date me because they want someone younger... Newsflash: women are visual too, and biology supports having a strong healthy male partner as well. Not all men are creepers that want to date someone so significantly younger .., the article had some good advice, but it was also more of the same re: gender stereotypes and Exclusion of those over 40/45. Pretty sad.
MattFebruary 3, 2015
Many 31+/- men have been dating 25+/- women and want to continue doing so. The mid singles ward forces men into a group of women averaging 35+/- and expects results. Not going to happen. They don't want to be there. It is demoralizing for men.
For those who have a problem with this idea, consider the reverse, how Utah culture coddles adult women who recoil at a 7+ yrs older man approaching them, (when they find out), well many men feel the same way for women their own age.
DaveFebruary 2, 2015
This article contradicts itself and weaves an incoherent pattern of mixed messages. It's unclear what parts of the article are the author's words and which parts are from the Bishop's talk.
The one actual quote from the Bishop's state if the ward talk is excellent and doesn't even mention marriage once. It highlights the greater role, the greater good, and the greater needs of members (single or married).
Focusing a ward's success metrics on marriage belittle the individual growth that a ward can accomplish in the lives of members (whether or not they date or marry). A ward thus focused may incentives dating for some, but can be potentially destructive to others.
Articles like this perpetuate a culture and a mindset in which it is difficult to be "the spiritual home for all LDS mid-singles regardless of their dating status, their dating prospects, their personal worthiness, their commitment to following the commandments, etc..."
In 1998, President Hinkley said every member needs a friend, a calling, and nurturing in the good word. A successful mid-singles ward would would accomplish these three tasks regardless of marriage statistics. On the other hand, a ward with 60 marriage, but innumerable members without friends, callings, or the spirit in their lives... could very well be a failure (except that such ward may only be using "recommends for live ordinances issued" as a metric, and they may completely miss the mark).,
SharonFebruary 2, 2015
I have thoughts about this, and many of them differ from the thoughts expressed here. I feel disappointed that this is what shows up in widely read publications to an LDS audience. But for now I'll just share one response. She quotes the mid-singles Potomac Ward bishop as saying:
“First and foremost, we must be the spiritual home for all LDS mid-singles regardless of their dating status, their dating prospects, their personal worthiness, their commitment to following the commandments, and their having personal doubts about one aspect or another about the gospel. If we, as a congregation, turn our backs on our basic Christian worship, we will crumble as an organization. We come here because we love the gospel and truthfully we know that sometimes we need to be snapped back into reality about our personal lives and our personal obedience. So, all are welcome here, but please don’t be confused, we must and we will follow the gospel as outlined by our church leaders, particularly the Prophet and the Apostles, otherwise we are lost. If you never marry, the Potomac Ward is your spiritual home regardless.”
I do not understand why, if this is the focus, if marriage or dating prospects are secondary concerns to making the ward a spiritual home, why then there is a need for an exclusive mid-singles congregation. Why can't everyone in a ward area find basic Christian worship in a conventional ward? Why can't it be the spiritual home? Yes, yes, some singles don't feel as comfortable or welcome in a conventional ward. Neither do many other members of a conventional ward. Some conventional ward members don't know how to treat singles. Does further separation of singles from the rest of the church help to change that? It's not as a long-term solution, as far as I can tell.
SourDough GregApril 23, 2014
As much as I appreciate all the comments, pro and con, . . .
The sad matter of fact is, that I as a Single Man with the heart and mind of a 17 year old and who is Single and Never Married.
I made a promise to my heavenly father (when I was around 17) that I would never get MARRIED, and SPANK the mother of my children.
I am now a 60 year old male, member of the church for around 12 years, with very little opportunity to stretch and grow spiritually, much-less meet my fellow Singles.
I have no prospect for meeting a Woman capable of having a child and creating a Terrestrial Family of my own.
I feel as though I am still 17 years old at heart. Call me Peter Pan if you must, but even Peter Pan has to grow up!
I would LOVE to meet a Late 40's Single Sister, with the remote POSSIBILITY of having a family!
And for those Sweet Young Sisters who look at the older male generation as "Dirty Old Men", . . .
(I happen to resemble that remark!)
Those young single sisters need to "get a life" I accidentally took a picture (for the Stake Single Adult Leadership) of a Beautiful and Young (31) single adult and she made me feel extremely bad in implying that I was "Hitting" on her.
The good news is, that I learned something from that encounter, and I know better now, not to assume that all Single Adults are created and treated as equals.
I apologize if I offended anybody with my statements, but I too am a human being and I have feelings, desires and aspirations to fulfill my heavenly fathers plan.
Signed,
Not Sour, but Sour Dough Greg
- Greg - ;+)
JanelleApril 16, 2014
For those complaining about being too old for the mid-singles program, you should stop. In Denver, the singles activities are primarily attended by senior members of the church and those who are disabled and socially backward and need these activities to have something to do on the weekends.
And for senior men who want to meet senior women, I have oodles of friends I can set you up with. They are exceptional women, and are looking for an exceptional man who will take the initiative.
The last event I attended felt like a dinner event at a retirement home. Hardly any mid-singles because after going for a while, they gave up. For the most part, mid-singles are just as not interested in being propositioned by senior men as are YSA singles.
I have some good friends that are senior, and I do hang out with them individually. We have a great time, and in fact I just threw an 80th B-day party for one.
The real issue is that most people want to connect with others of a similar age and activity level. The senior SA's in our area like to sit around, eat, talk about their kids and grandkids, and play games. Those in MSA and YSA want more interaction and activities that help us experience life. When an all-encompassing SA program tries to meet the needs of 19-dead group of SA's, it will fail. It will never work.
Bill in TexasApril 15, 2014
Handbook 2 found at LDS.ORG says this about the creation of wards for mid-singles (ages 31-45)
16.1 Ministering to Single Adult Members ...
... stake presidents may recommend the creation of a single adult ward for single adults ages 31 to 45 according to the guidelines in Handbook 1, 9.1.9.
BTMarch 17, 2014
There is no mention of a MidSingles program in the church handbook.
Some concerns I have about the MidSingles activities:
Every group defines mid singles differently. I have seen 30-45, 25-35, 30-55, etc
What happens to those who are right at the cutoff? As a 56 year old I would only be allowed to socialize with those my age and up?
The single adult program of the church is not just about marriage. It is about friendships and keeping people active in the church.
As already mentioned some wards and stakes organize events for certain age brackets of singles and seem to forget that others exist.
When I am 75 I don't want to just play bingo which is the only activity for singles in a stake a friend if mine attends.
Why not a wide variety of activities forall singles over 30 just like the YSA have?
If someone is constantly when you have said "no" tell a church leader about the problem. Chances are the person is doing the same to others. This can be a problem no matter what the individuals ages.
BradMarch 10, 2014
"We all know that outside the church, most dates end with sex or there is no chance for more dates."
Ignorant. Absolutley the pinnacle of mormon ignorance of the "scary" outside world.
MarkFebruary 24, 2014
How about a Post-60s singles program? I've seen many widows in our Stake wither away from social life beyond the ward. They are wonderful people and it would likely be fun for them to have a focused aged group to look for a potential mate.
AuminerFebruary 24, 2014
Alex Barclay: There is no mention of midsingles wards in Volume 2 of the Handbook. In Volume 1 (the part given to bishops, stake presidents, their councilors and clerks) it says,
"Most older single adult members are best served as members of conventional wards. As an exception, when a stake includes 150 or more single adults ages 31 to 45 whose needs for service, leadership, and social interaction are not met adequately by conventional units, the stake president may recommend the creation of a single adult ward. .... Approval is given only by the First Presidency."
JosephFebruary 24, 2014
This bishop mentioned looks and being physically fit to the midsingle women and lived?!?!?! He's a brave man!!! He's dead on accurate but the women don't think that *they* could be the problem.
SKSHELLOFebruary 22, 2014
In the 80's, they followed Church guidelines and would not allow singles over 30 to remain in singles wards. It was traumatic for many to have to attend married wards...and the marriages drastically decreased. Yes, there were events, but the continual Sunday meetings and related get-togethers were more secure. I am SO GLAD that mid singles again have an opportunity to associate, and hope they will support them. Alas, I often wonder what my life would have been like if I had been able to get to know a member in the 80's...married outside the Church...that was about 30 years ago..
KathrynFebruary 22, 2014
I was saddened to read that a leader (if his words were reported accurately) repeated a common half-truth about men and the importance of a woman's physical appearance. Of course, good hygiene and health are important. However, the standards of beauty in our culture are just that--cultural.
Several hundred years ago, the standard of beauty for a woman was to be overweight by today's standards. Not only that, different cultures also have different standards of beauty, as Elder John Groberg learned on his first mission: the islanders didn't find an American movie star attractive! They thought she looked like a doll and not a real woman (which is an interesting observation in light of recent evidence of models being photoshopped).
Both men and women need to look beyond physical appearance to the other person's sprit and heart. Just because someone doesn't match your ideal of physical beauty (which will unavoidably change over time AND be completely different in the next life) doesn't mean they wouldn't make a wonderful spouse.
SourDough GregFebruary 22, 2014
As much as I appreciate all the comments, pro and con, . . .
The sad matter of fact is, that I as a Single Man with the heart and mind of a 17 year old and who is Single and Never Married.
I made a promise to my heavenly father (when I was around 17) that I would never get MARRIED, and SPANK the mother of my children.
I am now a 60 year old male, member of the church for around 12 years, with very little opportunity to stretch and grow spiritually, much-less meet my fellow Singles.
I have no prospect for meeting a Woman capable of having a child and creating a Terrestrial Family of my own.
I feel as though I am still 17 years old at heart. Call me Peter Pan if you must, but even Peter Pan has to grow up!
I would LOVE to meet a Late 40's Single Sister, with the remote POSSIBILITY of having a family!
And for those Sweet Young Sisters who look at the older male generation as "Dirty Old Men", . . .
(I happen to resemble that remark!)
Those young single sisters need to "get a life" I accidentally took a picture (for the Stake Single Adult Leadership) of a Beautiful and Young (31) single adult and she made me feel extremely bad in implying that I was "Hitting" on her.
The good news is, that I learned something from that encounter, and I know better now, not to assume that all Single Adults are created and treated as equals.
I apologize if I offended anybody with my statements, but I too am a human being and I have feelings, desires and aspirations to fulfill my heavenly fathers plan.
Signed,
Not Sour, but Sour Dough Greg
- Greg - ;+)
WendyFebruary 22, 2014
There are many mid-singles at the lower end of the age group that are going to find themselves one day at the top end and I wonder how they will feel then when they are politely encouraged to move to a different ward and stop attending events? I'm interested in the statistics about the ages that singles fall away from church. Saying that the mid-singles programme is vital because of the fall-away rate for over 30s is too vague. The majority could be over 45 which not only invalidates the argument but brings it into question whether the right age group is being targeted.
ChrisFebruary 21, 2014
This article really does provide great data on how mid-singles can meet and move forward. However, what about all those above mid-singles age? I am 60 and find it impossible to meet an active sister my own age at my family ward. Maybe the church will address this issue someday?
LisaFebruary 21, 2014
I appreciated the article and the insight this bishop offered. Mid-singles wards are a blessing and yes in some ways not utilized by some members in a way to help them progress. I was in one of the Utah mid-single wards for about 9 years until I got married recently. Although I did not meet my husband in the ward (met online) I felt more socially accepted and comfortable with those in my age group versus going to a family ward. I did have several opportunities to meet men and date but no real serious relationships came out of those. I definitively agree with the bishops comment that the men in the Utah mid singles wards are spoiled. The numbers are more like 3 to 1 in my former ward. I agree that you can't limit yourself to only dating members in your ward. And yes, while there were/are men in my former ward who were looking for their Barbie, unfortunately they were not Ken. While I was so skeptical of online dating, I knew that I had to stir up the dating pool which for me had gotten stale. I met my husband after about 2 weeks being online. He was divorced and that scared me. But I found him to be refreshing! He wasn't looking for a supermodel and he really wanted to be married again.
KimberlyFebruary 20, 2014
Chrissie - the age ranges are set the way they are for one simple and obvious reason: If you put ALL singles together regardless of age, the 19-25 year old women will get the bulk of the attention from the 19-90 year old men, and the rest of you will be mostly ignored. My friends and I saw it happen over and over again when the newer crop of young ladies would graduate into the singles wards. A good friend, who was otherwise a very nice guy, refused to leave the young single ward when he turned 30 because "he wanted kids and didn't want to date women his age". Bless his heart.
Absolutely yes, there should be a mature singles program. Contact someone in your stake and offer to at least get activities started.
JenniferFebruary 20, 2014
I really, really like so much of what this article had to say but, it also really bothered me how they spoke as if they thought all mid singles were single because they just haven't gotten married. Almost as if they were avoiding the nasty word... divorce.
It was my understanding that most of us are mid singles due to divorce.
JoshFebruary 20, 2014
@Chrissie and Alan, the short answer is if there needs to be a program for "mature singles" or whatever you want to call it, there needs to be a specific program. Removing the cap on the 30-45 year old range is not the answer. I'm in the 30-45 year old group and repeatedly seen that when there is no cap then people in the 30-45 age range don't go to activities because they don't have any interest in going to activities with 55 yr olds, 60 yr olds, etc. Chrissie, you suggest it's not fair that 30-45 yr olds are allowed at your activities while the inverse isn't true - do you really have that many 30-somethings rushing to +45 single activities when they have an option to spend time with people in their on age group?? If so, it's an anomaly to everything I've seen and heard. Frankly, I'm at the towards the top end of 30s and if the activity isn't a defined mid-singles activity, with a specific age cap, I won't go. In my single social activities I want to spend time with my peers, not a generation or two (or three) older than me.
Belinda from AustraliaFebruary 19, 2014
Thanks Erin for an interesting article. Unfortunately for those of us singles who live outside the US, we will never have the same opportunities you do. Singles or Mid-Singles wards are never going to be something that will occur outside the US. Why, because we don't have the numbers. This is why we rely on the Single Adult program. Single adults in Australia range from 31 to death. The YSA program runs for those 18-30. The Church will not recognise a mid-singles program outside of the US so a lot of single adult activities are poorly attended because younger singles (31-50) don't want to hang out with "older" singles or get hit on by single men or women old enough to be their father or mother. Many single adult men are looking for younger women because they want children so women such as myself in my late 40's are not considered to be someone to date.
It is a struggle for someone like me to survive in the Church without this social support, yet for some reason the Church doesn't recognise those of us who don't fit into the box they think we should.
Unfortunately this is a problem which will never be solved because no one is really interested.
wolfieFebruary 19, 2014
the solution is to start treating adults like adults. everybody should just go to a family ward after college. singles wards (of any type) simply enable singlehood. family wards teach the gospel better and encourage families. this bishop is somewhat clueless on how to help people find true happiness (clue: it's not marrying a non-member, it's the gospel of Jesus Christ).
wolfieFebruary 19, 2014
the solution is to start treating adults like adults. everybody should just go to a family ward after college. singles wards (of any type) simply enable singlehood. family wards teach the gospel better and encourage families. this bishop is somewhat clueless on how to help people find true happiness (clue: it's not marrying a non-member, it's the gospel of Jesus Christ).
Pamela LarsonFebruary 19, 2014
Chrissie, I think you have a very valid concern. I am married now but very interested in the singles program as I was there for 20 years. I'm also assigned with my husband to a singles ward.
The answer I am given about age limitation is that our single younger sisters hate being "hit" upon by old men. Who can blame them? However, can we not be taught to tactfully say no? We should all be fellowshipping together no matter what the age. The age limitations have always bothered me.
Erin, great suggestions and observations.
JanisFebruary 19, 2014
Another division within the Church. How about SA over 45? How about SA over 60? At what age do we just keep dividing up the members? How about SA widows/widowers? I am in that category and I can tell you that I am not included in the ward because I am "old" "widowed" and have no children at home. I bet we could make up large wards with those "requirements." I don't see any benefits to the YSA/SA wards at all except to give them the status (excuse) that they are somehow more "special" or "needy" than the other members of the ward. Instead of trying to be unified, we are now defined in categories that are not helpful or useful and do not contribute to being of one heart and mind.
DanPBFebruary 19, 2014
Thank you for posting this talk....I thought the questions he asked to both men and women were very direct as to ways that we limit our choices.....as for Mr. Arlen Crosby - the reason there was no real mention of mid-singles wards around the country is that this was a transcript of one bishop's talk to HIS ward - addressed to the needs of his ward members. And he did actually allude to where high concentrations of LDS singles are to be found: "In Salt Lake, Los Angeles, Mesa, San Diego, there are so many singles, everyone is spoiled
MylanFebruary 18, 2014
Where was this program 30 years ago. When I turned 30 the church cut me off from social activity because I was too old. May others have a better life.
NitaFebruary 18, 2014
Wonderful job!! I especially appreciate the article since I didn't get to go to that ward that day since I was teaching primary in my ward.
So much more meaning in this article than the "standard" advice/suggestions that people used to receive which was basically if you aren't married now, don't worry, you can be married after you are dead! Love the gospel and hoping for eternal life but still that is not comforting. Bishop Larsen does a great job in his ministry to singles (not just in his ward) and I think all will benefit from reading this, no matter where they live!
Hollanpark: I don't think you read carefully, the article clearly describes the need for good discretion in dating out of the church and is not saying "anyone" will do.
SarahFebruary 18, 2014
Chrissie, it's true that the age limits in the SA program are arbitrary (e.g. a 42 year old who falls under the Midsingles program probably has a lot of interest in socializing with a 48 or 50 year old). But a 35-year old never-married member is in a completely different place in life than a 75-year-old widow. One program designed to meet the needs of both of them is grossly ineffective. (And sure, there can be activities just for "older" singles. And individual members can plan activities for any ages they choose...).
As for the article, as I understand it, a midsingles ward is designed to meet the needs (far beyond simple matchmaking) of single members, not to fix the "problem" of being single. A talk like this on how to date given to people who are competent adults (many of whom have been married) just doesn't strike me as particularly relevant.
AlanFebruary 18, 2014
Chrissie makes an excellent point about the exclusion of over 45s in the mid-singles program. My stake decided to start one of these a few months back. They set the ages at 30 to 45 with a note that they were flexible. I was 52 and wanted them to define "flexible" and discovered that I was excluded. However, 22 and 23 year olds are not excluded! I'm not interested in marrying one of these young chickies or embarrassing them by coming on as a dirty old man. I am interested in a place where I can get together with others and not feel left out because I now have an empty nest (and my stake doesn't have any program for older singles).
RachelJLFebruary 18, 2014
For those who were hoping for a list of midsingles wards or programs, there are other places to find those. I don't know if posting links here will work, but on Facebook the group "LDS MidSingles of the World" will do it. You can also look for the WordPress blog called "LDS MidSingles" and they have a page with lists of wards all over the world.
Chrissie,
Keep making your voice know. The MidSingles program has taken over 10 years to come about. When it first started popping up in various places, the older groups were already well-established. Unfortunately, from my experience and that of other women, when we first started attending SA activities (particularly dances) almost without exception we had bad experiences with a few men who would not leave us along, would get angry when we wouldn't dance a third or fourth time with them and turned them down for dates. My female friends who were over 45, on the other hand, were getting ignored. That seems to be an unfortunate side effect of having a lot of women between 30-40 put together with men over 55. It may seem childish, and I'm sure there are better ways of dealing with it, but I'm not sure what they are. I don't consider myself a person who has a hard time saying no, but for some reason there were certain men (this experience happens all over the place, not just where I lived) who didn't know how to take it. I actually preferred as a 32yo recently divorced woman to attend a home evening group with the "older" group because many of them were divorced and had kids like I did. I don't see a problem having activities where both groups are invited, but it's the uncomfortable truth that the 32-35 year olds need to feel okay. I'll be 45 in just a few years, and frankly, I won't want to be hanging around the 32 year olds then anymore than I want to hang out with the YSA's now. Not for "social" situations, anyway.
Happy Mom and DadFebruary 18, 2014
Our son is getting married! They met at a mid-singles ward. It is wonderful to see him (and her) so happy. We are thankful for the program!
Jackie MitchellFebruary 18, 2014
I don't like the expectation that is created (especially in the minds of older single women) when Church leaders talk about activity in the Singles Program making it more likely they will be married. I was active in over-31 singles activites in the L.A. area for about 6 years and I have to say that the singles activities I attended were pretty disappointing if the goal was to meet people that you'd end up getting married to. I kept attending not because I believed I would find "Mr. Right" but because I believed the Singles Program activities were a good way for the Church to meet the needs of a "special interest" group of which I was a part. During that time I did date a few men I met at Singles events, but I also met a lot of very nice women who I could relate to because our lives were similar. I also met some people I could strengthen and help and that was very rewarding. Singles conferences and firesides and special talks, etc. left me feeling spiritually ministered to and I learned and really did grow as a person because of my participation. It seems like spiritual growth and meeting the "special" needs of single members is the real purpose of a Singles Ward or Program, and that is something every single member of the Church can benefit from every single time they participate.
ChrissieFebruary 18, 2014
I disagree with the exclusion of those of us over 45 who are VERY physically and spiritually active. What are we supposed to do? We are not allowed at Mid Singles events, but they can come to our events. We are not allowed nor encouraged to attend their ward, because we are over 45....do we create our OWN Mature Singles Wards? What are we to do!? I completely disagree with the exclusions and believe it should no longer be buried under a rock, but addressed! Why not have a 'Singles Ward' instead of excluding us 'Mature' singles.... If you thought the 'Mid-Singles' felt left out, now imagine what we are going through! Not only are we empty nesters, but now we have been banned from attending singles activities if we are over 45. Time to TRULY reconsider the road this is taking.
Tom JohnsonFebruary 18, 2014
Thank you for publishing this, Erin.
DenisFebruary 18, 2014
I somewhat disagree with this article. I do agree with having firm stand with people who are not from the Church. However, I do not agree with dating outside of the Church for the following reasons:
1- I remember reading the words of President Joseph Fielding Smith in his book Doctrines of Salvation where he states that the scripture said that sons and daughters of God should not marry sons and daughters of man. He said that as far as he knew this commandment had never been rescinded by the Lord. That it was still in force to this day. Even today, the first presidency and other general authorities tells us to marry righteous priesthood holders and righteous daughter of God.
2- D&C 132: 4-7 is quite specific; No sealing no Celestial Glory. Elder Bruce R Mc Conkie made it quite clear in his book Gospel Doctrines that if someone marries out of the Church, the best they can expect is a terrestrial glory. His explanation is quite logical. Your spouse, who is not of the Church, had all those years to find the gospel. Even if they accept the gospel after their death, it is too late. Because they never accepted the gospel while alive all they can get is terrestrial glory, and their LDS spouse who know about celestial marriage is in the same boat. The Prophet Joseph Smith said it himself: "Those who died never knowing (emphasis on never knowing) of the gospel and who accept it on the other side will get exaltation." He never said "All those who were exposed to the gospel because they were married to a member and who accept it on the other side will be exalted." The member spouse who knew section 132 but still decided to marry outside of the Church is also forfeiting their place in Eternal Glory.
I can't remember where I read this, I believe it was from an Apostle, but they said: "Convert before you flirt."
I am fairly recent in the Church and I know that all kind of people will be saying that I am interpreting the scriptures wrong. It seems like everyone interpret the scriptures to fit their lifestyle instead of fitting their lifestyle to the scriptures.
There are lots of worthy priesthood holders and daughter of God out there. If people stop looking at the exterior shell and focus more on the spirit, they will find that there are a lot of beautiful people in the Church. I know because I dated a LDS sister when I was a non member. When I asked her why she was not dating one of her own faith she was quick at pointing all that was wrong with them but for some reason couldn't see my own faults which were a lot more than any of those brethren. Remember the scripture about the moat and the beam?
So instead of looking in the neighbour's backyard I would suggest that we take time to look in our own backyard.
Junk BinFebruary 18, 2014
there is the aspect of singles wards where your time is not taken up by callings. Since there is no nursery, primary, ym,yw, ets. You have low odds of the church taking up your time with duties.
I have been a SA regional rep as we do have "professional Single Adults who go to all the activities and will not marry."
Cheryl QuinnFebruary 18, 2014
I'm forwarding this to my single friends. I met my husband three years ago on Match.com and married December 2011. I was 62 and he was 74. We are very much in love. I want everyone to be this happy but it does require being proactive. This article is one of the most helpful and direct discussions I've seen on the subject.
hollandparkFebruary 18, 2014
Liked so much of this Bishop's thoughts and council but this one confused me:
Now using Facebook, start reaching back to former friends and Remember, we are not limiting ourselves to only LDS members
Alex BarclayFebruary 18, 2014
Last time I looked there is no reference at all to any Mid Singles program in the church handbook(s).
However that said, Stake Presidents have complete freedom to run the YSA and SA in their stakes as they see fit - to meet the needs of the demographic of their membership.
Mr. Arlen CrosbyFebruary 18, 2014
I'm disappointed that you did not make a reference to any Single Wards around the country and their location.. What's up with that? Seems like this story is incomplete.
Comments | Return to Story
Shelly the greatFebruary 4, 2016
As a female, it is so frustrating to keep being told how attractive I need to be, yet almost no counsel to the men to work on their fitness and attractiveness level. Total double standard. I am active and considered fairly attractive, but keep meeting men with an entitled of attitude of " you have to work hard to keep me interested, but I don't have to do that for you, because of " biology.. Oh and how men my same age won't date me because they want someone younger... Newsflash: women are visual too, and biology supports having a strong healthy male partner as well. Not all men are creepers that want to date someone so significantly younger .., the article had some good advice, but it was also more of the same re: gender stereotypes and Exclusion of those over 40/45. Pretty sad.
MattFebruary 3, 2015
Many 31+/- men have been dating 25+/- women and want to continue doing so. The mid singles ward forces men into a group of women averaging 35+/- and expects results. Not going to happen. They don't want to be there. It is demoralizing for men. For those who have a problem with this idea, consider the reverse, how Utah culture coddles adult women who recoil at a 7+ yrs older man approaching them, (when they find out), well many men feel the same way for women their own age.
DaveFebruary 2, 2015
This article contradicts itself and weaves an incoherent pattern of mixed messages. It's unclear what parts of the article are the author's words and which parts are from the Bishop's talk. The one actual quote from the Bishop's state if the ward talk is excellent and doesn't even mention marriage once. It highlights the greater role, the greater good, and the greater needs of members (single or married). Focusing a ward's success metrics on marriage belittle the individual growth that a ward can accomplish in the lives of members (whether or not they date or marry). A ward thus focused may incentives dating for some, but can be potentially destructive to others. Articles like this perpetuate a culture and a mindset in which it is difficult to be "the spiritual home for all LDS mid-singles regardless of their dating status, their dating prospects, their personal worthiness, their commitment to following the commandments, etc..." In 1998, President Hinkley said every member needs a friend, a calling, and nurturing in the good word. A successful mid-singles ward would would accomplish these three tasks regardless of marriage statistics. On the other hand, a ward with 60 marriage, but innumerable members without friends, callings, or the spirit in their lives... could very well be a failure (except that such ward may only be using "recommends for live ordinances issued" as a metric, and they may completely miss the mark).,
SharonFebruary 2, 2015
I have thoughts about this, and many of them differ from the thoughts expressed here. I feel disappointed that this is what shows up in widely read publications to an LDS audience. But for now I'll just share one response. She quotes the mid-singles Potomac Ward bishop as saying: “First and foremost, we must be the spiritual home for all LDS mid-singles regardless of their dating status, their dating prospects, their personal worthiness, their commitment to following the commandments, and their having personal doubts about one aspect or another about the gospel. If we, as a congregation, turn our backs on our basic Christian worship, we will crumble as an organization. We come here because we love the gospel and truthfully we know that sometimes we need to be snapped back into reality about our personal lives and our personal obedience. So, all are welcome here, but please don’t be confused, we must and we will follow the gospel as outlined by our church leaders, particularly the Prophet and the Apostles, otherwise we are lost. If you never marry, the Potomac Ward is your spiritual home regardless.” I do not understand why, if this is the focus, if marriage or dating prospects are secondary concerns to making the ward a spiritual home, why then there is a need for an exclusive mid-singles congregation. Why can't everyone in a ward area find basic Christian worship in a conventional ward? Why can't it be the spiritual home? Yes, yes, some singles don't feel as comfortable or welcome in a conventional ward. Neither do many other members of a conventional ward. Some conventional ward members don't know how to treat singles. Does further separation of singles from the rest of the church help to change that? It's not as a long-term solution, as far as I can tell.
SourDough GregApril 23, 2014
As much as I appreciate all the comments, pro and con, . . . The sad matter of fact is, that I as a Single Man with the heart and mind of a 17 year old and who is Single and Never Married. I made a promise to my heavenly father (when I was around 17) that I would never get MARRIED, and SPANK the mother of my children. I am now a 60 year old male, member of the church for around 12 years, with very little opportunity to stretch and grow spiritually, much-less meet my fellow Singles. I have no prospect for meeting a Woman capable of having a child and creating a Terrestrial Family of my own. I feel as though I am still 17 years old at heart. Call me Peter Pan if you must, but even Peter Pan has to grow up! I would LOVE to meet a Late 40's Single Sister, with the remote POSSIBILITY of having a family! And for those Sweet Young Sisters who look at the older male generation as "Dirty Old Men", . . . (I happen to resemble that remark!)
Those young single sisters need to "get a life" I accidentally took a picture (for the Stake Single Adult Leadership) of a Beautiful and Young (31) single adult and she made me feel extremely bad in implying that I was "Hitting" on her.
The good news is, that I learned something from that encounter, and I know better now, not to assume that all Single Adults are created and treated as equals.
I apologize if I offended anybody with my statements, but I too am a human being and I have feelings, desires and aspirations to fulfill my heavenly fathers plan.
Signed,
Not Sour, but Sour Dough Greg
- Greg - ;+)
JanelleApril 16, 2014
For those complaining about being too old for the mid-singles program, you should stop. In Denver, the singles activities are primarily attended by senior members of the church and those who are disabled and socially backward and need these activities to have something to do on the weekends. And for senior men who want to meet senior women, I have oodles of friends I can set you up with. They are exceptional women, and are looking for an exceptional man who will take the initiative. The last event I attended felt like a dinner event at a retirement home. Hardly any mid-singles because after going for a while, they gave up. For the most part, mid-singles are just as not interested in being propositioned by senior men as are YSA singles. I have some good friends that are senior, and I do hang out with them individually. We have a great time, and in fact I just threw an 80th B-day party for one. The real issue is that most people want to connect with others of a similar age and activity level. The senior SA's in our area like to sit around, eat, talk about their kids and grandkids, and play games. Those in MSA and YSA want more interaction and activities that help us experience life. When an all-encompassing SA program tries to meet the needs of 19-dead group of SA's, it will fail. It will never work.
Bill in TexasApril 15, 2014
Handbook 2 found at LDS.ORG says this about the creation of wards for mid-singles (ages 31-45) 16.1 Ministering to Single Adult Members ... ... stake presidents may recommend the creation of a single adult ward for single adults ages 31 to 45 according to the guidelines in Handbook 1, 9.1.9.
BTMarch 17, 2014
There is no mention of a MidSingles program in the church handbook. Some concerns I have about the MidSingles activities: Every group defines mid singles differently. I have seen 30-45, 25-35, 30-55, etc What happens to those who are right at the cutoff? As a 56 year old I would only be allowed to socialize with those my age and up? The single adult program of the church is not just about marriage. It is about friendships and keeping people active in the church. As already mentioned some wards and stakes organize events for certain age brackets of singles and seem to forget that others exist. When I am 75 I don't want to just play bingo which is the only activity for singles in a stake a friend if mine attends. Why not a wide variety of activities forall singles over 30 just like the YSA have? If someone is constantly when you have said "no" tell a church leader about the problem. Chances are the person is doing the same to others. This can be a problem no matter what the individuals ages.
BradMarch 10, 2014
"We all know that outside the church, most dates end with sex or there is no chance for more dates." Ignorant. Absolutley the pinnacle of mormon ignorance of the "scary" outside world.
MarkFebruary 24, 2014
How about a Post-60s singles program? I've seen many widows in our Stake wither away from social life beyond the ward. They are wonderful people and it would likely be fun for them to have a focused aged group to look for a potential mate.
AuminerFebruary 24, 2014
Alex Barclay: There is no mention of midsingles wards in Volume 2 of the Handbook. In Volume 1 (the part given to bishops, stake presidents, their councilors and clerks) it says, "Most older single adult members are best served as members of conventional wards. As an exception, when a stake includes 150 or more single adults ages 31 to 45 whose needs for service, leadership, and social interaction are not met adequately by conventional units, the stake president may recommend the creation of a single adult ward. .... Approval is given only by the First Presidency."
JosephFebruary 24, 2014
This bishop mentioned looks and being physically fit to the midsingle women and lived?!?!?! He's a brave man!!! He's dead on accurate but the women don't think that *they* could be the problem.
SKSHELLOFebruary 22, 2014
In the 80's, they followed Church guidelines and would not allow singles over 30 to remain in singles wards. It was traumatic for many to have to attend married wards...and the marriages drastically decreased. Yes, there were events, but the continual Sunday meetings and related get-togethers were more secure. I am SO GLAD that mid singles again have an opportunity to associate, and hope they will support them. Alas, I often wonder what my life would have been like if I had been able to get to know a member in the 80's...married outside the Church...that was about 30 years ago..
KathrynFebruary 22, 2014
I was saddened to read that a leader (if his words were reported accurately) repeated a common half-truth about men and the importance of a woman's physical appearance. Of course, good hygiene and health are important. However, the standards of beauty in our culture are just that--cultural. Several hundred years ago, the standard of beauty for a woman was to be overweight by today's standards. Not only that, different cultures also have different standards of beauty, as Elder John Groberg learned on his first mission: the islanders didn't find an American movie star attractive! They thought she looked like a doll and not a real woman (which is an interesting observation in light of recent evidence of models being photoshopped). Both men and women need to look beyond physical appearance to the other person's sprit and heart. Just because someone doesn't match your ideal of physical beauty (which will unavoidably change over time AND be completely different in the next life) doesn't mean they wouldn't make a wonderful spouse.
SourDough GregFebruary 22, 2014
As much as I appreciate all the comments, pro and con, . . . The sad matter of fact is, that I as a Single Man with the heart and mind of a 17 year old and who is Single and Never Married. I made a promise to my heavenly father (when I was around 17) that I would never get MARRIED, and SPANK the mother of my children. I am now a 60 year old male, member of the church for around 12 years, with very little opportunity to stretch and grow spiritually, much-less meet my fellow Singles. I have no prospect for meeting a Woman capable of having a child and creating a Terrestrial Family of my own. I feel as though I am still 17 years old at heart. Call me Peter Pan if you must, but even Peter Pan has to grow up! I would LOVE to meet a Late 40's Single Sister, with the remote POSSIBILITY of having a family! And for those Sweet Young Sisters who look at the older male generation as "Dirty Old Men", . . . (I happen to resemble that remark!)
Those young single sisters need to "get a life" I accidentally took a picture (for the Stake Single Adult Leadership) of a Beautiful and Young (31) single adult and she made me feel extremely bad in implying that I was "Hitting" on her.
The good news is, that I learned something from that encounter, and I know better now, not to assume that all Single Adults are created and treated as equals.
I apologize if I offended anybody with my statements, but I too am a human being and I have feelings, desires and aspirations to fulfill my heavenly fathers plan.
Signed,
Not Sour, but Sour Dough Greg
- Greg - ;+)
WendyFebruary 22, 2014
There are many mid-singles at the lower end of the age group that are going to find themselves one day at the top end and I wonder how they will feel then when they are politely encouraged to move to a different ward and stop attending events? I'm interested in the statistics about the ages that singles fall away from church. Saying that the mid-singles programme is vital because of the fall-away rate for over 30s is too vague. The majority could be over 45 which not only invalidates the argument but brings it into question whether the right age group is being targeted.
ChrisFebruary 21, 2014
This article really does provide great data on how mid-singles can meet and move forward. However, what about all those above mid-singles age? I am 60 and find it impossible to meet an active sister my own age at my family ward. Maybe the church will address this issue someday?
LisaFebruary 21, 2014
I appreciated the article and the insight this bishop offered. Mid-singles wards are a blessing and yes in some ways not utilized by some members in a way to help them progress. I was in one of the Utah mid-single wards for about 9 years until I got married recently. Although I did not meet my husband in the ward (met online) I felt more socially accepted and comfortable with those in my age group versus going to a family ward. I did have several opportunities to meet men and date but no real serious relationships came out of those. I definitively agree with the bishops comment that the men in the Utah mid singles wards are spoiled. The numbers are more like 3 to 1 in my former ward. I agree that you can't limit yourself to only dating members in your ward. And yes, while there were/are men in my former ward who were looking for their Barbie, unfortunately they were not Ken. While I was so skeptical of online dating, I knew that I had to stir up the dating pool which for me had gotten stale. I met my husband after about 2 weeks being online. He was divorced and that scared me. But I found him to be refreshing! He wasn't looking for a supermodel and he really wanted to be married again.
KimberlyFebruary 20, 2014
Chrissie - the age ranges are set the way they are for one simple and obvious reason: If you put ALL singles together regardless of age, the 19-25 year old women will get the bulk of the attention from the 19-90 year old men, and the rest of you will be mostly ignored. My friends and I saw it happen over and over again when the newer crop of young ladies would graduate into the singles wards. A good friend, who was otherwise a very nice guy, refused to leave the young single ward when he turned 30 because "he wanted kids and didn't want to date women his age". Bless his heart. Absolutely yes, there should be a mature singles program. Contact someone in your stake and offer to at least get activities started.
JenniferFebruary 20, 2014
I really, really like so much of what this article had to say but, it also really bothered me how they spoke as if they thought all mid singles were single because they just haven't gotten married. Almost as if they were avoiding the nasty word... divorce. It was my understanding that most of us are mid singles due to divorce.
JoshFebruary 20, 2014
@Chrissie and Alan, the short answer is if there needs to be a program for "mature singles" or whatever you want to call it, there needs to be a specific program. Removing the cap on the 30-45 year old range is not the answer. I'm in the 30-45 year old group and repeatedly seen that when there is no cap then people in the 30-45 age range don't go to activities because they don't have any interest in going to activities with 55 yr olds, 60 yr olds, etc. Chrissie, you suggest it's not fair that 30-45 yr olds are allowed at your activities while the inverse isn't true - do you really have that many 30-somethings rushing to +45 single activities when they have an option to spend time with people in their on age group?? If so, it's an anomaly to everything I've seen and heard. Frankly, I'm at the towards the top end of 30s and if the activity isn't a defined mid-singles activity, with a specific age cap, I won't go. In my single social activities I want to spend time with my peers, not a generation or two (or three) older than me.
Belinda from AustraliaFebruary 19, 2014
Thanks Erin for an interesting article. Unfortunately for those of us singles who live outside the US, we will never have the same opportunities you do. Singles or Mid-Singles wards are never going to be something that will occur outside the US. Why, because we don't have the numbers. This is why we rely on the Single Adult program. Single adults in Australia range from 31 to death. The YSA program runs for those 18-30. The Church will not recognise a mid-singles program outside of the US so a lot of single adult activities are poorly attended because younger singles (31-50) don't want to hang out with "older" singles or get hit on by single men or women old enough to be their father or mother. Many single adult men are looking for younger women because they want children so women such as myself in my late 40's are not considered to be someone to date. It is a struggle for someone like me to survive in the Church without this social support, yet for some reason the Church doesn't recognise those of us who don't fit into the box they think we should. Unfortunately this is a problem which will never be solved because no one is really interested.
wolfieFebruary 19, 2014
the solution is to start treating adults like adults. everybody should just go to a family ward after college. singles wards (of any type) simply enable singlehood. family wards teach the gospel better and encourage families. this bishop is somewhat clueless on how to help people find true happiness (clue: it's not marrying a non-member, it's the gospel of Jesus Christ).
wolfieFebruary 19, 2014
the solution is to start treating adults like adults. everybody should just go to a family ward after college. singles wards (of any type) simply enable singlehood. family wards teach the gospel better and encourage families. this bishop is somewhat clueless on how to help people find true happiness (clue: it's not marrying a non-member, it's the gospel of Jesus Christ).
Pamela LarsonFebruary 19, 2014
Chrissie, I think you have a very valid concern. I am married now but very interested in the singles program as I was there for 20 years. I'm also assigned with my husband to a singles ward. The answer I am given about age limitation is that our single younger sisters hate being "hit" upon by old men. Who can blame them? However, can we not be taught to tactfully say no? We should all be fellowshipping together no matter what the age. The age limitations have always bothered me. Erin, great suggestions and observations.
JanisFebruary 19, 2014
Another division within the Church. How about SA over 45? How about SA over 60? At what age do we just keep dividing up the members? How about SA widows/widowers? I am in that category and I can tell you that I am not included in the ward because I am "old" "widowed" and have no children at home. I bet we could make up large wards with those "requirements." I don't see any benefits to the YSA/SA wards at all except to give them the status (excuse) that they are somehow more "special" or "needy" than the other members of the ward. Instead of trying to be unified, we are now defined in categories that are not helpful or useful and do not contribute to being of one heart and mind.
DanPBFebruary 19, 2014
Thank you for posting this talk....I thought the questions he asked to both men and women were very direct as to ways that we limit our choices.....as for Mr. Arlen Crosby - the reason there was no real mention of mid-singles wards around the country is that this was a transcript of one bishop's talk to HIS ward - addressed to the needs of his ward members. And he did actually allude to where high concentrations of LDS singles are to be found: "In Salt Lake, Los Angeles, Mesa, San Diego, there are so many singles, everyone is spoiled
MylanFebruary 18, 2014
Where was this program 30 years ago. When I turned 30 the church cut me off from social activity because I was too old. May others have a better life.
NitaFebruary 18, 2014
Wonderful job!! I especially appreciate the article since I didn't get to go to that ward that day since I was teaching primary in my ward. So much more meaning in this article than the "standard" advice/suggestions that people used to receive which was basically if you aren't married now, don't worry, you can be married after you are dead! Love the gospel and hoping for eternal life but still that is not comforting. Bishop Larsen does a great job in his ministry to singles (not just in his ward) and I think all will benefit from reading this, no matter where they live! Hollanpark: I don't think you read carefully, the article clearly describes the need for good discretion in dating out of the church and is not saying "anyone" will do.
SarahFebruary 18, 2014
Chrissie, it's true that the age limits in the SA program are arbitrary (e.g. a 42 year old who falls under the Midsingles program probably has a lot of interest in socializing with a 48 or 50 year old). But a 35-year old never-married member is in a completely different place in life than a 75-year-old widow. One program designed to meet the needs of both of them is grossly ineffective. (And sure, there can be activities just for "older" singles. And individual members can plan activities for any ages they choose...). As for the article, as I understand it, a midsingles ward is designed to meet the needs (far beyond simple matchmaking) of single members, not to fix the "problem" of being single. A talk like this on how to date given to people who are competent adults (many of whom have been married) just doesn't strike me as particularly relevant.
AlanFebruary 18, 2014
Chrissie makes an excellent point about the exclusion of over 45s in the mid-singles program. My stake decided to start one of these a few months back. They set the ages at 30 to 45 with a note that they were flexible. I was 52 and wanted them to define "flexible" and discovered that I was excluded. However, 22 and 23 year olds are not excluded! I'm not interested in marrying one of these young chickies or embarrassing them by coming on as a dirty old man. I am interested in a place where I can get together with others and not feel left out because I now have an empty nest (and my stake doesn't have any program for older singles).
RachelJLFebruary 18, 2014
For those who were hoping for a list of midsingles wards or programs, there are other places to find those. I don't know if posting links here will work, but on Facebook the group "LDS MidSingles of the World" will do it. You can also look for the WordPress blog called "LDS MidSingles" and they have a page with lists of wards all over the world. Chrissie, Keep making your voice know. The MidSingles program has taken over 10 years to come about. When it first started popping up in various places, the older groups were already well-established. Unfortunately, from my experience and that of other women, when we first started attending SA activities (particularly dances) almost without exception we had bad experiences with a few men who would not leave us along, would get angry when we wouldn't dance a third or fourth time with them and turned them down for dates. My female friends who were over 45, on the other hand, were getting ignored. That seems to be an unfortunate side effect of having a lot of women between 30-40 put together with men over 55. It may seem childish, and I'm sure there are better ways of dealing with it, but I'm not sure what they are. I don't consider myself a person who has a hard time saying no, but for some reason there were certain men (this experience happens all over the place, not just where I lived) who didn't know how to take it. I actually preferred as a 32yo recently divorced woman to attend a home evening group with the "older" group because many of them were divorced and had kids like I did. I don't see a problem having activities where both groups are invited, but it's the uncomfortable truth that the 32-35 year olds need to feel okay. I'll be 45 in just a few years, and frankly, I won't want to be hanging around the 32 year olds then anymore than I want to hang out with the YSA's now. Not for "social" situations, anyway.
Happy Mom and DadFebruary 18, 2014
Our son is getting married! They met at a mid-singles ward. It is wonderful to see him (and her) so happy. We are thankful for the program!
Jackie MitchellFebruary 18, 2014
I don't like the expectation that is created (especially in the minds of older single women) when Church leaders talk about activity in the Singles Program making it more likely they will be married. I was active in over-31 singles activites in the L.A. area for about 6 years and I have to say that the singles activities I attended were pretty disappointing if the goal was to meet people that you'd end up getting married to. I kept attending not because I believed I would find "Mr. Right" but because I believed the Singles Program activities were a good way for the Church to meet the needs of a "special interest" group of which I was a part. During that time I did date a few men I met at Singles events, but I also met a lot of very nice women who I could relate to because our lives were similar. I also met some people I could strengthen and help and that was very rewarding. Singles conferences and firesides and special talks, etc. left me feeling spiritually ministered to and I learned and really did grow as a person because of my participation. It seems like spiritual growth and meeting the "special" needs of single members is the real purpose of a Singles Ward or Program, and that is something every single member of the Church can benefit from every single time they participate.
ChrissieFebruary 18, 2014
I disagree with the exclusion of those of us over 45 who are VERY physically and spiritually active. What are we supposed to do? We are not allowed at Mid Singles events, but they can come to our events. We are not allowed nor encouraged to attend their ward, because we are over 45....do we create our OWN Mature Singles Wards? What are we to do!? I completely disagree with the exclusions and believe it should no longer be buried under a rock, but addressed! Why not have a 'Singles Ward' instead of excluding us 'Mature' singles.... If you thought the 'Mid-Singles' felt left out, now imagine what we are going through! Not only are we empty nesters, but now we have been banned from attending singles activities if we are over 45. Time to TRULY reconsider the road this is taking.
Tom JohnsonFebruary 18, 2014
Thank you for publishing this, Erin.
DenisFebruary 18, 2014
I somewhat disagree with this article. I do agree with having firm stand with people who are not from the Church. However, I do not agree with dating outside of the Church for the following reasons: 1- I remember reading the words of President Joseph Fielding Smith in his book Doctrines of Salvation where he states that the scripture said that sons and daughters of God should not marry sons and daughters of man. He said that as far as he knew this commandment had never been rescinded by the Lord. That it was still in force to this day. Even today, the first presidency and other general authorities tells us to marry righteous priesthood holders and righteous daughter of God. 2- D&C 132: 4-7 is quite specific; No sealing no Celestial Glory. Elder Bruce R Mc Conkie made it quite clear in his book Gospel Doctrines that if someone marries out of the Church, the best they can expect is a terrestrial glory. His explanation is quite logical. Your spouse, who is not of the Church, had all those years to find the gospel. Even if they accept the gospel after their death, it is too late. Because they never accepted the gospel while alive all they can get is terrestrial glory, and their LDS spouse who know about celestial marriage is in the same boat. The Prophet Joseph Smith said it himself: "Those who died never knowing (emphasis on never knowing) of the gospel and who accept it on the other side will get exaltation." He never said "All those who were exposed to the gospel because they were married to a member and who accept it on the other side will be exalted." The member spouse who knew section 132 but still decided to marry outside of the Church is also forfeiting their place in Eternal Glory. I can't remember where I read this, I believe it was from an Apostle, but they said: "Convert before you flirt." I am fairly recent in the Church and I know that all kind of people will be saying that I am interpreting the scriptures wrong. It seems like everyone interpret the scriptures to fit their lifestyle instead of fitting their lifestyle to the scriptures. There are lots of worthy priesthood holders and daughter of God out there. If people stop looking at the exterior shell and focus more on the spirit, they will find that there are a lot of beautiful people in the Church. I know because I dated a LDS sister when I was a non member. When I asked her why she was not dating one of her own faith she was quick at pointing all that was wrong with them but for some reason couldn't see my own faults which were a lot more than any of those brethren. Remember the scripture about the moat and the beam? So instead of looking in the neighbour's backyard I would suggest that we take time to look in our own backyard.
Junk BinFebruary 18, 2014
there is the aspect of singles wards where your time is not taken up by callings. Since there is no nursery, primary, ym,yw, ets. You have low odds of the church taking up your time with duties. I have been a SA regional rep as we do have "professional Single Adults who go to all the activities and will not marry."
Cheryl QuinnFebruary 18, 2014
I'm forwarding this to my single friends. I met my husband three years ago on Match.com and married December 2011. I was 62 and he was 74. We are very much in love. I want everyone to be this happy but it does require being proactive. This article is one of the most helpful and direct discussions I've seen on the subject.
hollandparkFebruary 18, 2014
Liked so much of this Bishop's thoughts and council but this one confused me: Now using Facebook, start reaching back to former friends and Remember, we are not limiting ourselves to only LDS members
Alex BarclayFebruary 18, 2014
Last time I looked there is no reference at all to any Mid Singles program in the church handbook(s). However that said, Stake Presidents have complete freedom to run the YSA and SA in their stakes as they see fit - to meet the needs of the demographic of their membership.
Mr. Arlen CrosbyFebruary 18, 2014
I'm disappointed that you did not make a reference to any Single Wards around the country and their location.. What's up with that? Seems like this story is incomplete.
ADD A COMMENT