Wow, this is interesting. I feel that this article was written to acknowledge the tremendous pain that can be in the future for those with a public face. People think they know who others are. I appreciate the effort and comments. It is clear that the male perspective is quite different in all of this. I guess that is why women meet together to learn as women and men as men in one of our meetings at church.
I would look for a group that has either women or men but not both.
We are so different in our needs and feelings that it's not the best mesh. Some of the things mentioned are contributing to people esp. women, trying to endure and push on with a smile when actually healing and a happy, healthy life could otherwise be in their future.
Hang in there everybody, the church is true regardless of it's people and our testimony is of Jesus Christ.
Love to all
JessieAugust 20, 2017
These responses by Ward members that I've been reading in the comments have surprised me. Perhaps because, though I am not divorced, I've experienced some of them as well. Our good friends who were respectively, the ward organist and recently released Primary President, made the decision to leave the church with their eight children. Since then, my spouse was released from his calling and no replacement calling has been issued, and after a short time I was called to.....you guessed it, Nursery. I love my Nursery kids and don't miss the sideways looks in RS but I know some children's parents are uncomfortable with them playing with my children, lest it should prove a contagious disease they might catch from my kids associating with their non-member friends. Fear motivates us to strange and unChristlike behavior.
CathyJune 26, 2017
I guess I was blessed since I never experienced a change in acceptance after my divorce. I was the same person, and I just kept pushing forward, serving, being involved, accepting callings in teaching, leading, music, wherever I was needed. Yes, I was assigned Home Teachers from the High Priest Group, but that is where single women fall in the organization of the church. I have loved all of my HT and they have all helped give blessings when needed to me and my children. My experience has been that if being divorced doesn't bother me, it usually doesn't bother anyone else either. I am the one in charge of how I am feeling, behaving, acting, serving, believing, worshipping, etc. and others' views are up to them. I am sorry for those who have experienced unacceptance. Perhaps it is a lesson that those around you needed to learn. But keep your relationship with the Lord strong and vibrant, as that is the most important relationship you have other than with yourself.
RosieJune 4, 2017
After being divorced for several years, I remarried and moved out of state to Utah. When people in the Utah ward find out this is my 2nd marriage and that I was not widowed, but divorced, I have again felt stigmatized. I was so surprised to find the divorce stigma still present after being remarried and active in this ward for many years.I inwardly smile at their reactions because I feel whole as a person and the people being judgmental have never faced the challenges I have lived through.
Kate BrothersonJune 2, 2017
Author Brene Brown write a book called Dating Greatly and it focuses on many of the issues in this article. One of her certified trainers, Liz Dalton will be doing a workshop in Salt Lake City on June 24th to work through the "Shame" many of us Latter Day Saints feel when we get divorced
I was married to a member of the bishopric when I got divorced. I chose not to discuss my reason for divorcing to anyone and was treated VERY poorly by so many of my neighbors. It wasn't until my ex-husband was arrested for raping a girl that I felt my previous ward member "friends" quit their judgement toward me.
Having a great group of friends and resources for workshops, such as Brene Brown's Rising Strong had helped me focus on myself instead of others. I've become an observer instead of the victim. I know that if I don't want others to judge me, I get to first Practice not judging. May we all be kind to one another and do as Christ teaches which is to LOVE one another.
SarahJune 1, 2017
@kim.
Go to search box in Facebook
Type LDS Divorce Survivors Group
A few come up.
Lisa's is private, you ask to join.
And bingo....you are in!
Still StrivingJune 1, 2017
" Why would anyone be cruel to or alienate someone so obviously in need of support and love? ... Why would a bishop 'isolate' someone in need? Having a little trouble with this." ... I experienced divorce more than 20 years ago. As a man, I believe I may have experienced less "isolation" than many. Even so, it was there. People don't know how to respond, and so they avoid. Others decide they've "set a bad example" and shun. Particularly attractive divorcees (male or female) may cause others to feel threatened and insecure. Bishops struggle to know what callings to extend, and must balance the feelings of those with whom they might serve with, and how they'll be seen and influence others after having divorced. Some members and leaders alike may even find themselves "taking sides" perhaps without intending to, and judging something they typically know so very little about--from a "full story" perspective. Further, a vocal ex-spouse, especially one who is likeable and charismatic can share too much that is one-sided. The other ex-partner realizes any attempt to "rebut" will just muddy the waters and "tar" them both further. So, he or she remains silent, which can be interpreted as unable to rebut... And the damage continues...and people react. ... Truly, we must always strive to be patient, tolerant and loving. Even someone who seems (or perhaps even really was) at "greater fault" has reasons they got there that only the Savior will fully understand. Our assignment is to lift, inspire, love, and "feed" the Savior's sheep regardless of circumstances. When we meet our Redeemer, as we all one day will, He will have great tenderness for those who love deeply, especially those individuals who seem less than "love-able." Isolation, and at times even unkindness, does indeed happen. Let us not be a part of it in any way.
FrancesMay 31, 2017
If you truly believe both parties are always at fault and need to take responsibilty for their part of the problem, you have never been married to someone suffering from borderline personality disorder. The person is quite capable of targeting everything of value to you and purposefully destroying it. Indeed, the worst mistake you can make is to let them know you value fidelity or honesty or your children. They have no limits and will even murder their children to meet their needs. So please stop the foolish statements. We have survived life in hell and have no more energy for your uneducated statements. If you want to participate, educate yourself first, advice that would serve every bishop equally well.
AnonymousMay 31, 2017
This treatment does not occur within the LDS church alone. This happens because of human nature, and in any Christian domination people are treated this way, in this situation. What is the purpose of this article? To raise awareness for Mormons only?
Michele CrockerMay 30, 2017
Thank you, Lisa. It's not very often an article gets this many comments! I could echo many statements already made; mine was indeed challenging but my sisters' fit the leadership response pattern described. Instead of telling my story, I'd like to clarify a couple points and add something not yet addressed. There seems to be a pattern here of mental illness, particularly personality disorders. This doesn't apply to a 'normal' divorce, if one can call it that; any divorce is crazy time as we become our natural man or woman. Couples counseling does not apply here, it can make the victim less safe. For those who are incredulous as to the stories being a reality, try reading something like "The Sociopath Next Door (Antisocial Personality Disorder)." They're not all serial killers; some are just good at getting you to do their work for them. This book focuses mostly on the low end of the spectrum just described. They all have no conscience or remorse, and are counting on you having one. Have you ever watched a thriller crime shows? Then you know what's involved here. This is only one pervasive problem among the personality disorders.
More important than trying to discern whether a person is personality disordered, is whether there is domestic violence (DV). I was the victim of DV long before I learned he is severely disordered. Both myself and my children were abused. Most batterers were abused, and/or watched it occur, so it's usually learned very early and the statistics on change are extremely poor.
If you believe you are the victim of DV, contact your local advocacy support system. The national number is 1-800-799-7233 | 1-800-787-3224 (TTY), and they can give you your local option if you don't know how to access it otherwise.
DV is a pattern of power and control, and will become worse if you do nothing. It's aim is to keep you locked in place, doing exactly that. You are the best assessor of the danger; you know this person the most. Advocates rely on your instincts rather than tell you what to do.
Advocacy is not in the business of trying to get you to leave, but to help you be safe and empower you to make whatever decisions will lead to this outcome. I became a DV advocate and chemical dependency counselor in the years after leaving my children's father. It's a sad fact they'll use the children to get back at you as well.
As far as there being no disciplinary action, people being judgmental and other similar challenges, it's horrific when you go through it, but you can and will come out the other side. Getting PTSD from the trauma of living with an abusive and controlling person only makes it more difficult when people don't believe you. Yes, it's re-traumatizing. There was a fairly recent excellent Meridian article on living with a sex/pornography addict, linked to ldsliving.org or similar, or I located it directly there. I believe the title was /An Open Letter to Bishops About.,,' It's worth searching for as it's very validating and talks a lot about this secondary trauma.
We go through the stages of grief and loss, and hopefully don't become stuck in the stage of anger, etc., but keep moving. It's not a linear path, as we move around in the stages.
It is indeed sad this occurs, but people are ignorant. Learn to forgive them, eventually, as the Savior requires this of us. I wish you all well.
KimMay 30, 2017
I just finalized my divorce after 34 years last week. How do I find this Facebook page?
VaniceMay 29, 2017
Although I do not agree with all off the article, there are valid points and yes I have felt many of them. It was very difficult and I've had a long road to travel that wasn't easy and yes I did most of it alone with my children depending only on me. I really had no choice and I was alone because of my lack of faith in God at the time after all HE is a man too. However, those struggles made me stronger and who I am today. I know now I really wasn't alone my Father in Heaven was there every step of the way I just wasn't listening because I didn't feel worthy. I also believe it is not the people in the church that make the church. It is the gospel and the teachings. People are not perfect and they make mistakes, don't think about how what they say or do will be received. My experience is they don't know what to do because they don't understand. However, I don't base my faith on the members and what they do I base mine on God and my relationship with him. You're never alone if you believe and lean on God not people. Keep the faith in God and you'll always be right where you need to be, learning the lessons you need to learn. It won't be easy but nothing worth having is.
EFMMay 29, 2017
I believe what is being described here is symptomatic of a latter-day phenomenon of family worship as opposed to individual worship. As LDS, somewhere along the way, well-meaning but misguided leaders turned our salvation a collective matter while it is anything but collective. Interestingly, this phenomenon actually acts to "weaken" rather than strengthen families. More than once, as a home teacher, I had a spouse complain about the husband not providing what she considered a commensurate amount of "priesthood leadership in the home." This led to marital discord and discontentment. Yet, I knew the man to be a hard worker, to be a serious provider for his family and to only want his wife to appreciate him a little more, especially in the bedroom. But the wife's displeasure with the husband in the church setting was such that she was not interested in him in other ways, which aggravated the problem. Sure, the man could have honored his priesthood a little more and been a better leader in the home, but he was not as well developed spiritually as was his wife, and she, rather than recognize and cover for him, exposed him. As a people we have fused our worship to our family dynamics and that is destroying our faith. We cannot stop divorce, the times are such that divorce is going to continue happening in the church; it is predicted in the scriptures, but we can prevent the divorce from destroying our faiths. I separated some 10 years ago and remain divorced from this day. I have not had a home teacher to speak of in 10 years. Most of my bishops actually have avoided me, except for 2 very remarkable men... the rest have been forgettable. I had a stake president whom I believe would have taken me outside and physically beaten me, upon confession, had he been allowed. Friends unfriended me long before unfriending people was cool on Facebook. But, unlike most of the people whose opinion I have read, I never really could have cared less. I have always gone to church for me. Even when I was married, I never went to church for my wife, my children or anyone else, it has always been about a very personal communion with God; it is my time and no one else's time; it can't be anyone else's time; salvation is individual. So, do I care if I am ignored, ridiculed, laughed at, spoken about, or what have you? Hell no. Have you read what the early Saints did to the prophet Joseph Smith, himself? He was decried, derided, ridiculed, and betrayed. And when Joseph's sufferings are compared to the Saviour's what does God ask of him? "Art thou greater than He?" Who am I not to suffer. It was I who decided to marry in the temple and to preach this narrative about being a forever family. Then, divorce. Of course people will lose confidence in me; of course, I will lose the moral high ground and the narrative; obviously, I brought it upon myself; if I go to church to be validated in these things, I am going to lose my faith very quickly. The underlying issue with the article is that it proposes a narrative of one party being right and the other being wrong, but in divorce there's no such thing. If there is dysfunction and bad behavior on someone's part, those things can be worked out and if they can't the wronged spouse has to figure out how to leave the union owning up to his/her own part of the dysfunction. Nobody is dysfunctional alone. When we break up a temple sealing we lose confidence, self-confidence, the confidence of our dhildren, the confidence of our leaders, the confidence of our congregation; it is natural. As I read it recently, "you don't get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate." Step up and go to church to worship by the Savior's love and not be coddled by your friends.
JenniferMay 29, 2017
This article really resonated with me. I got divorced about three years ago after 24 years of marriage. My ex husband cheated on me for 20 years but because he was so charming and persuasive he had the whole ward and neighborhood believing that he was the good guy. I found out after the divorce that he had been spreading lies and making me look bad to our neighborhood for years behind my back. Because his parents were also in the ward and I lived in the same neighborhood in a different house after the divorce I felt like I couldn't go to church which made me look even worse along with the lies he spread about me. He told these lies to my children and my family and turned them against me as well, until I put my version of what happened out. He abused me and raped me even after we were divorced. Instead of supporting me or keeping track of me, my bishop turned a blind eye to the situation. When I got strong enough to move away, the bishop refused to send my childrens' church records to my new ward and asked to have a copy of our custody papers because he didn't believe that I had custody of my children. Going through my ex's excommunication and then seeing the way he continued to treat me after he got his blessings back really destroyed my faith in the church. I spent 20 years trying to pretend to be a perfect family while going through this abuse and manipulation. I think the church needs a resource for women who are trapped and powerless in abusive relationships so that they can get counseling and have resources to be able to leave if they need to. Moving away was the best thing that I ever did for myself and my kids, but the whole neighborhood where my ex lives still thinks that he is the victim and he has had no repercussions because of all of the terrible things he did for so many years. I think it's a huge problem in the church. Thanks for this article.
Ann GMay 29, 2017
Thank you for addressing this issue and for providing the list of ways we can be supportive. My daughter has experienced the lack of support by ward members who believe his charismatic story and have no clue what really happens in the home. The bishop sent the husband a text message outlining a strategy, and cautioned him not to let the wife know the bishop was on his side. However, the bishop unwittingly copied the wife! Understandably, she changed wards! Bishops are lay clergy and are not professionally trained to deal with personality disorders. Stay close to the Lord. He is the true support.
Sister who's been thereMay 28, 2017
Glen Danielsen: Why would you doubt that statement? My bishop at the time of my divorce, a close friend, instructed my home teachers (as one of them explained to me later) to not provide any assistance to me because "she has to learn to stand on her own two feet now." I went for years with a broken sprinkler system and was ridiculed to my face by a member neighbor because my front lawn had a dead spot in the middle of it and, as he put it, was a disgrace to the neighborhood. But nobody would help me with it. I had previously been a Relief Society President, Gospel Doctrine teacher, member of a Young Women's presidency, and so on, but since my divorce 13 years ago, I have held zero callings that really mean anything aside from visiting teacher. I was accosted in the hallway at church and questioned as to why I had asked my abusive husband to leave given how long we had been together; after all, if it was really that bad, why didn't I just leave? Stop having trouble with it, Glen. The folks in Zion aren't uniformly good hearted, nor do they always see through the smokescreens put up by deceptively charming abusers.
SamMay 28, 2017
The LDS culture has very little divorce maturity. I know this is true. Especially in Utah. But there's nothing you can do about it. I have great respect for my ecclesiastical leaders but the average member really is clueless on how to strengthen, nurture, cultivate relationships once divorce enters the picture. Sadly hypocrisy prevails as members struggle to know how to act, what to say, etc. It's evidence that they are not fully converted. Yet.
Michelle RussellMay 28, 2017
I so identify with this article. Moving away was the biggest blessing for me. And I finally learned to separate the truth of the gospel from the "stiff necked" people within the wards. I will never again let some heartless judging people push me away from the gospel of Jesus Christ
Kim CMay 28, 2017
I think going to LDS social services before during and after divorce can help. The LDS social services can also communicate with the church leaders if the client request it. LDS social services can also have a training class for the church leaders on knowing how to help others during this time and avoid gossiping isolating etc.
LupineMay 27, 2017
Glen (and some others), where have you been hiding out? LDS members are no different than anyone else who can't handle those who don't meet their own interpretation of religious CULTURAL expectations. Ward members can be vicious/gossipy or wonderfully kind but these reported hurts are real, even before the divorce happens.
Few, if any leaders, believe abuse victims and if they are sisters, automatically assume the sister has been a cold fish to her husband's physical wants and needs. An abusive partner in the marriage may often not lose their temple recommend unless the behavior was egregious, or the bishop was fooled by deceit on either side, or their leaders were blindly defensive of the man. (The old boys' club.) Go to an outside counselor, a licensed professional, not to your bishop or stake president for advice and healing. They are rarely trained to help you! Move to a new ward and/or stake if you feel you are being shunned or treated spitefully. Yes, we do shun people, even if it's not officially permitted.
And I might add, treatment by ward members isn't always a whole lot better when you are suddenly widowed instead of divorced! Still married couples can suffer massive insecurity, make stupid judgment calls, show total lack of understanding and/or unwillingness to put themselves in someone else's shoes. They're running scared and you're fortunate indeed when they close ranks around you. Your stake can add you to the Singles email list so fast it will blow your mind, as in even before the funeral has been held. Major hurt.
JanMay 27, 2017
Thank you to the Northampton ward who all those years ago, when my husband left, invited me into their homes, filled my calendar with activities, and the single adults who made me a part of their group. Turned a most traumatic time into one of the most beautiful times of my life. I felt loved and cared for.
MaryMay 27, 2017
My son went through a very similar experience as the author of this article. His wife was publicly soft-spoken, sweet and charming. She alienated my son from friends, neighbors, and ward members, and attempted to isolate him from my husband and me. One of the behaviors of people with her diagnosed particular personality disorder is the 'distortion campaign.' She made up terrible things about my son. Unfortunately, their bishop, who had no expertise in personality disorders or marriage counseling made some terrible judgment calls that added to a very painful situation. Church leaders need to know their limitations. This was fairly recent so whatever training there has been in the past was not helpful in this situation. And I would add that ward members need to be very careful in taking sides. You might be very surprised at just how much you don't know.
Anne BeanMay 26, 2017
Another area you did not cover here, is that you are perceived as being a "burden" to the ward as a single parent. I've overheard discussions about women who are moving into the ward labeled right off the bat. Single-mom means more work for everyone else. She's going to need more help, more assistance--no one wants to be her home teacher.
Patty AnnMay 26, 2017
I'm having a very hard time with this article, for several reasons. I am divorced, have been for many years. My anger, frustration, and loneliness, changed me. I was not the same person after I divorced. Yes I had to deal with a few neighbors who rode the gossip bandwagon, but they were there before I divorced. Was I expecting my divorce to change them? If so, no wonder I was hurt. The church was organized to teach us how to return to our Heavenly Father, not to run our lives. YOU need to take full responsibility for your divorce and whatever action lead to it. I don't know the full reason why some people are released from callings after a divorce, in all honesty it's none of my business. It might be the very same reason that caused the divorce that also caused a change in their church calling. YOU DON'T KNOW THE FULL STORY!! STOP berating the church and your ward family because you went through a divorce. If you aren't getting the "supportive help" you need from your ward, look outside of the church for help. There are government agencies that will support and even pay for therapy for you and your family. Call 211 (in Utah), they have all sorts of resources that might assist you. You are in a difficult situation, I know this all too well. Look for the good around you, I promise you will find it, and even try to contribute, you'll feel much better!
Karl ChristenMay 26, 2017
It's an interesting article you wrote. I think you made some personal observations about decisions in terms of your service that may or may not be fair to those in leadership in your ward or stake. I say this because I've gone through a multi-year inactive to active status in my own ward. It's interesting now to compare my emotions and feelings when I was sliding into inactivity and eventually rebellion against the churches precepts and how I feel now. Both were Utah county wards/Stakes, demographically there was not much difference. So could the people in these leadership positions be that radically different or perhaps my perception is that much different now then back then. I remember I had a huge chip on my shoulder about stories like this one. But coming back into activity I'm overwhelmed by the effort and love that's been showered on me. Sure, not every member in my ward on Stake steps up and demonstrates continuous Christ like love, but I've never expected it. Frankly I felt entitled in the past and I don't now. Perhaps you could look at your position a bit differently and think about what others may feel when the do talk to you about your situation. Maybe it's not disdain but a feeling of insecurity or non-understanding. I think we often project our own insecurity on others when we have these experiences. Anyway, I wish you the best. Fellow divorced LDS member in Pleasant Grove Utah.
DanielleMay 26, 2017
My ex-husband was also mentally ill and very likable. Managed to spin some amazing tales. I actually found the bishops, stake presidents and even the general authorities he dealt with to be completely uninformed and ill trained for the important decisions they were making. If we are going to allow bishops to counsel, we need to train them.
Tamara ShawMay 26, 2017
Thank you! I went inactive for 8 years because my heart was broken, first by my ex husband then by my ward and bishop who systematically shunned me at the end of my marriage. I only came back due to the warmth and acceptance of the LDS 40 Something Facebook group I found one night. They encouraged me to regain my testimony and to return to church. My current ward is amazing and my bishop is patient with me, even now, when I falter and stumble. Please, if someone in your ward is going thru a divorce, please pray for guidance on how to be supportive and loving. They need it.
Matt CampbellMay 26, 2017
One thing that is desperately need in the LDS Church are real world local LDS Divorce Support Groups, as in meet weekly in the same room together. One group for Divorced men, the other for Divorced Women. Other churches often use the 13 week course for their support groups as outlined in divorcecare.com, covering the different aspects of healing from divorce. It would be great, if there was a LDS version or this to help divorce members of the Church heal, and receive the support they may not be receiving in their home ward.
Mike LovinsMay 26, 2017
I empathize with singles who have felt alienated and mistreated, but we have to remember the Savior was mistreated and betrayed by his own and chose to serve. The declaration "I come to serve" will absolutely transform your experience in the church. I think of a divorced friend, whose wife left him years ago with a handicapped daughter in my ward who is too busy reaching out on a weekly basis to get involved in any other concern. Our relationship is not with church members, but with The Lord Jesus Christ, whose atonement heals everything it touches..
john anonymousMay 26, 2017
IT also happens in reverse: the wife gets away with a glib tongue!!! I am close to such a family, and the lack of fellowship continues a quarter of a century later! The real fault in these tragedies is us who perpetuate the cold shoulder. Shame on us!
GlennMay 26, 2017
Fantastic article and FB page! Thank you :-)
Dayl BrinkmanMay 26, 2017
My advice to you? Move and get a new ward. See the new bishop straight away, and explain your needs to him.
For various reasons, I have visited many different wards in the church. And they all have a very different feel or "spirit" to them. They are not all the same. Some have soooo much more of a culture of kindness and charity to them.
So, if things are going well where you are at? Don't condemn them for being the people they are...just move on.
Visit a few wards...find out...move there....make a fresh start. It will change your life.
Anonymous ex husbandMay 26, 2017
Mormon culture has a belief that you stay together at all costs. Oftentimes, this staying together in terrible circumstances of abuse, conflict, and distrust is far more toxic for the kids especially than simply splitting up.
There is no nobility in that situation. Our kids didn't go to church much, and they never saw their parents go to the temple. Singing "Families Can be Together Forever" would have been hollow and painful for them. But now we can discuss it confidently, at least at my house.
withheldMay 26, 2017
Lisa, Thank you very much for your article. As a male member of the LDS church who has recently gone through a divorce I have found nothing but support from my leaders and there was no change in my callings. However, I identify and I have experienced many of the same things that you did with regard to friends and church members. My home teachers also stopped coming. Though less common for men, I experienced emotional, verbal, and physical abuse over 15+ years. I stayed in an unhealthy marriage much too long because of the seriousness of the covenants I had made, the impact I feared for my children - one of who has special needs, the fear I wouldn't receive much custody, the financial consequences, as well as the fear that nobody would believe what I had gone through. It took a lot of courage to file for divorce and it wasn't until after a lot of praying and talking with my priesthood leaders that I felt that was the right decision. My ex was also a very charming and believable person and spread lies to both our ward and my family to attempt to alienate me and cover up her abusiveness. Despite losing some dear friends, being falsely accused, having my character questioned and disparaged, feeling alone, the financial implications etc I am now in a much better place. I am stronger and I have learned much as a result of all these challenges. I am closer to our Heavenly father and He has blessed me with many new friends who are understanding and supportive of my situation.
GlendaMay 26, 2017
I left a marriage af 12 years with a husband who had at least 4 affairs. I am grateful that I listened to God about staying and about going. Many of my friends couldn't believe the lies that were part of our outward image. They 'didn't want to get in the middle of it' or 'take sides'. I moved soon afterwards to a very supportive ward which hadn't known him and was able to find friends for me and my children. One dear friend came and shared with me that she had gone to the bishop who 'couldn't believe her story'. This same bishop was wonderful to me. I think the difference was that he knew her husband and felt connected. I would also remind people that all church counselors are not great. And, if you feel you aren't being believed - go find another one. It hasn't been easy because charismatic people can be very good at manipulating others to see what they want you to see and can transform like chameleons to become what you want. In the end, my ex fooled me and everyone. The best advice I can get is to stay stubbornly strong and find your voice. There are times when I feel connected to people in my ward and times when I don't. That is true for every member. And, it's ok. Personally, I focused on raising my kids. I did have a member come up to me one time after finding out I was single. She told me she couldn't believe it because my kids seem so normal. Also, I think bishops need to tell people who have suffered abuse to go to the police instead of trying to keep it all in house.
Kathryn Kelly CarmonaMay 26, 2017
So hard! Some of those stories are heart wrenching, and extremely frustrating to read... Ugh! I was fortunate to have support from friends and family, and most of my church leaders...bishops in the church are to be counseled with, and their advice prayerfully taken into consideration, but in the end, divorce is a decision only the individuals can make. I think people with difficult marriages often live with silence and shame, and just put on a fake happy face. They gut it out in misery, and then it's a big surprise to everyone when the bomb drops. I was vocal with my bishops about the difficulties in my marriage throughout its duration, and consistently sought professional counseling. I think because of that, it was not a huge surprise when I finally divorced. In the end, I felt confident and at peace because I knew I had done all I could to preserve my marriage. This has made it easier for me to not worry what others think or say. After my divorce, I was called to be relief society president in the new ward that I moved to. Crazy huh?! (I would've gladly served in nursery.) That service as Relief Society president was a huge blessing in my life, and I think I was also good for the very traditional ward that I lived in. We sisters all belong to Relief Society. That is where we belong whether we are divirced, married or single...I love Relief Society! I don't know why some people have better experiences than others. Most likely just the differences in the personalities of everyone involved. But I hope we all remember that even though we don't always feel like we fit in, we always belong! We need to reach out and love those who are suffering through divorce and its aftermath...My experience has given me empathy for what others are going through, and I hope that I've been able to lift someone's burdens because of that.
Please withhold my name.May 25, 2017
When I went through my divorce, I was not a member of the church. I have been alone for twenty-five years now--and very lonely, but too afraid to let any man close to me after what my "ex" put me through. He was a street angel/house devil. He lied in court and took our son away from me--and our son did not want to live with him. He then neglected our son (just like he did when we were married) and over time, my son became a liar and a thief like his father, and a misogynist, also like his father. I was able to get custody of my son back when he became suicidal because of his father's neglect and abuse, but I wasn't able to undo all the damage before my son went into the military. He served in Iraq four times in four years, insists he does not have PTSD, but told me he feels angry all the time. I love my son, but I do not trust him, and I'm afraid to let him near me. I suffered a spine injury, and my son has injured me in the past, not out of anger, but out of impulsiveness. Such an injury now could put me in a wheelchair for life. Being afraid of being hurt both emotionally and physically is pure hell. When I joined the church, the members were overall very kind to me. I had hoped I'd meet a Latter-Day Saint and get married again but after eleven years in the church, and reading this article, I don't need another abusive personality disorder in my life. I applaud Mike for helping his new wife to heal. I wish there were more men like him out there. No one can understand the devastation of being married to a man who can lie better than I could tell the truth unless they have been through it--and it's far more widespread than anyone wants to believe. I'm grateful I'm out of such a destructive marriage. I'm grateful that my church family has accepted me. I'm grateful for my Home Teachers, one who is elderly, but very smart and very helpful. I'm grateful for my Visiting Teacher who, along with her husband, has welcomed me into their home. If I ever can marry again, I will pray fervently for Heavenly Father's guidance and listen to His counsel, and then do what He tells me to do, even if it hurts, because I trust He will never encourage me to marry a man who is so insecure again.
LynnMay 25, 2017
Brother Virgil Lawler: I am glad that you wrote your comment. After losing so much, it can be another loss to also lose your established home teachers. It can feel to us that we must have elderly home teachers assigned so that we are not a temptation to others, and that can be hurtful. But after reading your comment I can see that your desire to serve is sincere and that your feelings are tender too. Thank you.
AnonymousMay 25, 2017
My now husband had a very similarsituation, except it was his ex that was charming and charismatic. The Ward (that we still live in) was pretty "weird" to him, from avoiding him, to 'that look', to gossiping. He was very upset about it, but felt comfort as the Spirit told him that soon many would see the error of their judgements. As he remained faithful and active, and they saw her behavior, soon many came to realize that she was trying to deceive them also. Iguesstgats a benefit of living in a small town. A year after his divorce we met on an odd dating site. That same Ward welcomed me with open arms, with some of the members telling me that if I was not serious about being with him, that I should leave now, because he had been hurt so badly. They truly do love him.....and now our new family.
Brent GarnerMay 25, 2017
The subject of divorce is a very sensitive one in the LDS Church. When my wife, who suffered from mental illness, divorced me, I became a pariah to almost everyone in our ward. Only 2 families would have anything to do with me. I was even denied home teachers on instruction from my bishop. Ultimately, my bishop referred me to the stake president for disciplinary action due to the misinformation my mentally ill former spouse spread around. Yes, I had to endure the prospect of being excommunicated or disfellowshipped because of what my ex-wife had said. This despite the fact that I was the one coming to church and bringing my children to church. She quit coming. She took up drinking and smoking. She had men over all night long. That was 28 years ago. But I have never been allowed by my local church leaders to move past it. I had the opportunity to apply for a teaching position at BYU-I and in the very first interview my divorce was brought up. I learned later that even though it had been more than 2 decades since the divorce, that CES was going to consider my divorce in the decision about whether to hire me or not. Ultimately, they did not hire me. Now, some would wonder if I am still active after all of this. I am as active in the church as my health and the health of my 2nd wife and disabled daughter will allow. You see, the gospel is true, but the membership is not.
MonicaMay 25, 2017
This article was spot on and VERY much my experience. My ex is a very charming and likable guy, so I was not believed when I told my Bishop and stake president of his abuse towards myself and our daughters. I was given Ensign articles on forgiveness and chastised for contacting the authorities regarding a sexual incident he had with one of our daughters (no joke--the bishop said I should've talked to my husband about my daughters allegations before going to the police). He can look people straight in the eyes and lie. It was easier for them to believe I left my custom home on the golf course with no job and 4 small children because I was 'hard to please' or 'lost it', than to believe he was actually harming his family in every way. Lay clergy definitely needs to be trained on the profile of abusive personalities. They are MORE charming & likeable than the average person....and they do that ON PURPOSE to avoid public detection of their truly dark characters.
Virgil LawlerMay 25, 2017
As one of "the ward's oldest High Priests," I am scratching my head. Do you consider High Priests like me lesser home teachers somehow? When I look around my ward and stake, I see that most of the elderly High Priests are among the best home teachers available. We have experience, knowledge, and time (after all, we're retired) that younger men through no fault of their own cannot hope to match. Consider that your priesthood leaders may have done you a tremendous favor assigning you to these home teachers. Think about it. Pray about it. And if you don't want them around, please tell your High Priests group leader. I'm sure your ward can use them where they're appreciated and not wasted.
Name withheldMay 25, 2017
Glen, I know it's hard to believe that our fellow churchgoers could act unsupportive, but it really can happen. My ex-husband begged me to keep his affair a secret, and I "obeyed" his wishes, telling only my closest friend. I wasn't excited about that news getting out either! I was horrified to learn that while I kept quiet, he was out convincing many people that I was having an affair. His girlfriend was his constant companion after he moved out. I couldn't figure out why his family and friends weren't suspicious about this new woman who was instantly welcomed, long before our divorce was even final. Why didn't they believe that he was having an affair with her? I believe he told everyone that she was simply a good friend who was helping him through a devastating time. Though she wanted to marry him as soon as both of their divorces were final, he had to delay the marriage just long enough to throw off suspicion. His father (now deceased) never spoke another word to me, and his mother only said a few words of greeting to me days before she died. They had been my family for almost three decades! He met with the bishop and stake president, but they chose to not hold a court, based on his convincing story. Take note that they didn't call me in to ask about his claims and revoke my callings or temple recommend. Apparently he didn't dare tell THEM his lies about my supposed affair. Some ward members who had been very close friends didn't say a word to me for months, and our friendships naturally dissolved. Many others were very kind and thoughtful. I was blessed with the world's best home teachers. I haven't missed a week of church due to the anguish of divorce or the actions of a few members because my testimony of Jesus Christ is my sure foundation and always will be. A final note: years after the divorce, I was given a calling in the nursery, but it never occurred to me to be offended by an inspired calling from the Lord. Being in the nursery with loving, nonjudgmental children is possibly the best calling in the church, and I worked with wonderful women who have become dear friends.
Kathryn J.May 25, 2017
Thanks so much for your personal mission on Facebook; just wish it had been there for me 10 years ago! Or I'd started it....didn't think of it.
I consider it a HUGE blessing that my ward, neighborhood, and my ex's family gave me--and him--great support. I also think it was because I went to all of them and told MY side of the story--about his porn and infidelity--before he could. Makes a big difference.
Priesthood leaders have a much better understanding than they did 10 years ago. But I still hear stories of realasings from callings, shunning, gossip and bishops/stake presidents who do all the "old school" things. It's heartbreaking.
KevinMay 25, 2017
This is an incredible story and one that should open eyes and ears and most of all understanding and compassion. My wife and I had the opportunity to serve in a Branch in our area. This Branch is composed of an entire apartment complex. We learned very quickly that a significant portion of our members came to us from broken marriages, and a good portion of those from those very circumstances described in this story. It is incredibly difficult to walk into the Chapel on Sunday when you feel like you are "one of them". As a member of the Presidency it became very easy to spot those new members of our Branch and to immediately befriend them and discover what we could do for them. The interesting part was that when these members realized that there were many in our little Branch that were in the exact same situation that would open up the dialogue and the love from those around them. It was amazing to witness. We did not draw lines or break into groups. We were one, and a good portion of these members served in those "important callings". We had RS Presidents, Primary Presidents, HP Group Leaders, and every other calling that was filled by those members that were suffering through this terrible time in their lives. What they didn't realize is how blessed we were to have the knowledge and experience and willingness to serve that they offered. This was a true testimony to me that we are all Gods children, and it is us that draws lines and build barriers. Open your eyes, open your heart, be as the Savior would have you be. It takes effort and understanding, not judgement and rdicule.
IngridMay 25, 2017
This is a most interesting topic and observations some of which I have experienced myself. I am separated from my spouse though not legally yet. I'd like to say, dear readers, brothers and sisters, stand in your light. When we are strengthened after a trial of faith, seek to strengthen another. The Lord needs us to do his work. That may mean staying in a congregation that doesn't give us all the support we'd like. That may mean giving a leader our listening ears when all he or she wants to do is to educate and dismiss us. This is our mission, to follow Jesus. He was not understood or welcome by His own people. He stayed and fulfilled His mission nonetheless. Seek personal revelation and trust in His amazing grace. Love you all!
Connie BMay 25, 2017
I am heartbroken that anyone has these experiences in their Wards! When I went through my divorce, I was loved and supported by my Bishop and Ward friends. It was such a healing and loving atmosphere for me and my children. I was treated like Christ teaches us to treat each other. How my heart aches for those who've not experienced that, be it Sisters or Brothers! Thank you for sharing. I hope this helps illuminate what needs to change in our Wards and Stakes.
Sasha Bill KwapinskiMay 25, 2017
I was truly blessed by the support and acceptance that came my way when I was divorced several years ago. In about 15 years of raising my children as a single father, I never felt excluded or marginalized. I certainly never felt that I posed some kind of a threat to other peoples' marriages, Another family with young children was assigned to take me under their wing, as a sort-of "HT & VT" combination. Our bishop and other ward leaders stood by us all the way. This included a time when legal action was brought against me when raised the real danger of myself and my children ending up homeless. These circumstances were soon changed for the better, in fulfillment of a priesthood blessing which was given to me by my bishop. I was remarried about 6 years ago, and my wife, who had also been divorced, experienced nothing but acceptance and support from the leaders and members of her ward.
SusanMay 25, 2017
Thank you so much for this article. I truly hope that people will read it carefully and have their hearts open to understand. My precious daughter went through the same thing. Twobishops who literally "threw her under the bus", never really been leaving or understanding what she was trying to say. Her ex was very manipulative, charismatic, and turned every truth into a congested lie. It got to the point where she would not meet with her bishop unless her father was with her. It was a heartbreaking situation made even more so by those who should have nurtured her and her children. Certainly more needs to be done to enlighten ecclesiastical leader's as well as those in the ward settings. She almost lost her self in all of the judge mental behavior by those who certainly should have known better. Fortunately she is strong and hanging onto her testimony by her fingernails, made a new life for herself. I would never wish this on anyone. The victim is abused twice: once by the spouse and again by those within the church. May we ever be more Christlike and mindful of those who are physically, emotionally, spiritually, and mentally battered.
A Mom in GeorgiaMay 25, 2017
His is a wonderful article. One which needs to be heard over and over again. Instead of the word "divorce" the words" parents of a teenage daughter who is pregnant, child who has drug problem, a child who has emotional problem, etc" . It seems anyone who is not living the normal Latter Daty family existence, is often shunned and made to feel as a leper. This happ Ned to our family when one of our daughters became pregnant while in high school. There was another youth at the same time who was dying from cancer. Her family received all kind of support and help, while our family was suffering too, yet felt the ridicule and shunning of our ward family. This was the most difficult time of our life in the church. After she had the baby and we returned to our home ward, we still received the cold shoulder from most everyone. I would overhear people saw such things as, " Don't let your kids play with ----, because you know what happen to their family." It was like we were contagious. At first, I would attend church for just the Sacrament portion of the meetings. Little by little and over years, I was able to stay for more and more of the meetings. This was a true test of my husbands and my testimonies. Unfortunately, our dear daughter has nothing todo with the church now that she is a adult. I'm not sure if she will ever come back because of her deeply hurt feeling about how she was treated.
LV GaskinsMay 25, 2017
Wow, I am so sorry and sad that these things have happened to so many people. I'm also extremely grateful that when I got divorced after a toxic marriage, my ward and family rallied around me, helped me settle into my new home and I honestly never felt judged by anyone (besides myself) or ostracized. There were plenty of times that I left a class during lessons about eternal families or marriage because I had a hard time knowing where I fit into things during that time, though. I know I felt very self-conscious about my situation.
Maybe it depends on where you live. I'm so thankful to live where I do and to have such a loving ward. I only hope that we can all learn to be loving to each other, and ourselves, no matter what the circumstances.
Jill JensenMay 25, 2017
I felt the exact same way. We had lived in a small city in Utah when I found out that my husband had been in a relationship with a married woman much older than he was before and after high school, his mission and our temple marriage. Not only that but he had been exposing himself to women in our small town. I was mortified but had 2 small children at the time. Luckily our bishop was very loving to me. Having come from a sexually, physically and emotionally abusive LDS home. I tried to get through it. Naturally his parents openly blamed me. My friends who had even been victims of his "show and tell" were uncomfortable around me and I felt so alone. But I stayed. I felt like I didn't have a choice. We even had another baby.
About 4 years we moved to a new state. We were firmly rooted in our new ward but I still didn't trust my husband. I tried. I really did. I prayed to know if this was continuing so I wasn't caught by surprise again. The exposing himself did happen, to someone I considered a close friend. She told me about it then her husband made her recant her story saying that she misunderstood.
I knew it was my answer. I had to leave him. Much like the authors ward, mine turned on me because he told them I was cheating on him. I couldn't believe it! The biggest group of mean girls included the bishop's wife. I was very hurt but didn't bother to defend myself. I knew it wouldn't do any good. He lied and they believed him.
I moved to a different ward with my 3 children.
I did always feel like an outsider at church with everyone else's apparent "happy family" but I was able to keep enough of my testimony to know that it wasn't the Gospel, it was the imperfect people and I needed the Gospel and so did my kids. I did find a small group of friends and eventually found an amazing husband on one of those LDS dating websites. It was so difficult and there were many times over those 16 years I felt so alone and like I would never fit in. Just remember that no matter how terrible you feel, how alone you think you are, Jesus Christ knows exactly how you feel. He loves you and wants to help you.
I know he helped me. I will be forever grateful.
Mike C.May 25, 2017
Glen Danielsen..it happens. it happened. it is true, beyond logic. Please see us as your brother or sister, struggling, hurting, needing to feel included. Be as the savior, compassionate in our time of need. Lisa is amazing, brought me into the amazing facebook group when I needed it the most. I was blessed with a wonderful bishop, but it was the ward members who treated me as if I had the plague.
Jilly PratherMay 25, 2017
How in the world can LDS people who go to church each Sunday, and take the Sacrament be so judgemental and cruel? I don't understand. I was a victim of church ostrasization also. It's unbearable.
TheresaMay 25, 2017
That is about what it was like for me, too. Especially if the other spouse is charismatic, especially if you are the one who finally was able to leave your situation, you are seen as the person who 'broke up' the marriage. If you don't have support from your Bishop or other Church leaders, it can be very hard. But I also found that some people can be kind, and the occasional kindnesses were enough to keep me going. God knows your situation, and He helps us along.
zeke abramsMay 25, 2017
Very well said. I'm quite moved at your intestinal fortitude and how you faced the upheaval and fallout of a bad-gone-worse situation. I salute you.
SheilaMay 25, 2017
Thank you for writing the story for so many that have gone through this life changing event. There is hope on the other side but getting there is a real struggle.
ChristineMay 25, 2017
I appreciate your article and your support group. I am not divorced myself but I have had a few people close to me that are. I have seen some of the challenges and good things they have found in the church while they were going through this transition. The one thing I've learned the most is not to judge, even if it appears that one person "at fault" or it seems shocking that a marriage of a number of years is breaking up. If it is there is most likely years of disfunction and pain behind the breakup regardless of what actions caused the final breakup. I agree the people going through divorce need support and love and not isolation. After reading this I've been prompted to invite one of my divorced friends to lunch. Thanks for bringing light to this topic! I think all of us can do better.
name withheldMay 25, 2017
I have now been divorced 10 years and have gone through what you have described. I moved right after my divorce out of state and still felt isolated when I moved into my new ward. I had a very difficult time, but I decided I was not going to let the members ruin my joy. I joined a book club, a Zumba group, and became facilitator for the ARP program and I trusted in the Lord. And I have survived.
Beverely TelfordMay 25, 2017
Wow! This article is so enlightening and so true. Thank you for making us more aware of how we can help these victims of divorce. There are too many of them that turn against the Church because of how they are being treated.
MikeMay 25, 2017
It saddens me to say that I know of two cases when the husband was either abusive or unfaithful to his wife, (one was a member of the high council who cheated on his wife and was not excommunicated, and the other was the high priest group leader), and the priesthood leaders sided with the husband instead of the wife who filed for divorce.
While looking for a new wife on an LDS dating site, I quickly learned about many divorced women who had been so hurt in their prior marriage that they were very wary of establishing a close online relationship with men. They were active and attractive women who were still single for several years.
Two months ago I married the ex-wife of the high priest group leader who was domineering and demeaning to her during their 34 years of marriage to the point that he had crushed her self-esteem. She is a wonderful, talented, intelligent, loving, and devout woman who loves to serve people and who had been a Relief Society president, a Young Women's president, and served in the stake Young Women's presidency along with several other callings.
After a few weeks of me courting her and telling all the reasons I admired her and cared for her, she regained her self esteem. She had been seeing a therapist to help her regain her self-esteem. One day when she came into the therapist's office for her appointment, the therapist told her in amazement that she looked five years younger and looked as if a huge burden had been lifted off her shoulders. My wife told her she had found a man who loved her, praised her, admired her, and treated her with respect and kindness.
After my wife who didn't really love me during most of our 41 years of marriage divorced me, my new wife and I are so grateful that the Lord brought us together and are enjoying the love and happiness we never experienced in our prior marriages.
SarahMay 25, 2017
Lisa, great article. Thank you.
Unless you have been there done that and sent all the postcards, it is hard to understand. I get it. But if people can just take on board your comments of what people need and do those things in the future, less of us would get hurt and feel so alone.
I pray people will ' rememebr ' this when it is needed , so they can then be a listening ear, an unbiased friend.
Sometimes people just need to talk it out....for weeks and months ( and years!) be that friend who lets them. They don't want solutions, they just need an ear !
Don't treat them like lepers...
I read when a man leaves, he usually wants to come back after a while. When a woman decides to leave..that's usually it.
( wasn't in my case, but there is always an exception !)
CharlieBrown2292May 25, 2017
Last Sunday, when the Paris Temple was being dedicated, I was trying to enter the underground parking of the Temple, because my current health does not allow me to walk long distances. The Temple staff had a policy of flexibility for people with physical handicaps, so accessing the Parking was never a problem for me each time I showed up there...until this very day! The Brother who was screening incoming cars - someone I knew well, objected to let me in if I could not show a "Reduced Mobility Badge." Such were his instructions he had received for this very day... We later had an Email exchange in which he told me, "If you knew the number of members who tried to cheat to enter the parking lot of the Temple, you would be very surprised. Many members tried to force their entry under various false pretenses, including the possession of a white recommendation, when it was not the case, would present fake Reduced Mobility Badges, etc ..."
Indeed, so many members, even those showing up for a Temple Dedication, carry moral flaws they are not willing to consider as a handicap to their spiritual growth. But the Lord will not be fooled, and all those who are being made the victims of prejudice should lean on Him for support and guidance, because He promises not to leave us comfortless.
Moving out of a Ward where members are not proving to be supportive is a wise decision. The next wise decision is to seek after the Comforter through prayer, scripture study, Church and Temple attendance, and being focused on serving others.
As time goes, the Lord will heal our wounds and provide us with the blessings we truly deserve for our faithfulness and commitment, especially when being faced with severe challenges.
Let us then feel sorry for those members and Leaders who missed the lpportunity to behave in a compassionate and charitable manner.
This being said, I believe that time has come for our Leaders to dedicate more focused attention to the issue of divorce and how local members and Leaders should handle it when when it happens to their fellow Latter-Day Saints, because an increasing number of people and families in our Congregations are being affected by it and its devastating consequences.
Tom A Allsworth (UK)May 25, 2017
What a tale of sorrow. My heart aches after reading this. We must not add to the pain felt by those who suffer the hurts of divorce. By what right is judgement made by the many. They will only have a portion of the story and not the whole picture. Divorce affects the family deeply and we must be kind, considerate, and loving. There may be physical or mental injuries experienced by family members so we MUST step up and support them. It is true that occasionally rest from a calling would help with the healing process, but not shutting a sufferer up in a call that isolates them from the very help they need.
The key to helping in these cases is simple: listen, learn, and love. Don't take sides and never break a confidence. In the book, 'The Water Babies' one reads of a wise lady - Mrs Doasyouwouldbedone by. Let us all follow that message. Love them all and follow the Saviour by being a true friend to one in need.
Glen DanielsenMay 25, 2017
"I heard their stories of being released from their callings and being put in isolated callings."
Statements like this, and assertions of having suffered ridicule while suffering the trauma of divorce are hard to attach credibility to. They even fly against logic and normal human response, let alone Latter-day Saint response. Why would anyone be cruel to or alienate someone so obviously in need of support and love? Why would a bishop 'isolate' someone in need?
Having a little trouble with this.
Comments | Return to Story
Not GivenAugust 22, 2017
Wow, this is interesting. I feel that this article was written to acknowledge the tremendous pain that can be in the future for those with a public face. People think they know who others are. I appreciate the effort and comments. It is clear that the male perspective is quite different in all of this. I guess that is why women meet together to learn as women and men as men in one of our meetings at church. I would look for a group that has either women or men but not both. We are so different in our needs and feelings that it's not the best mesh. Some of the things mentioned are contributing to people esp. women, trying to endure and push on with a smile when actually healing and a happy, healthy life could otherwise be in their future. Hang in there everybody, the church is true regardless of it's people and our testimony is of Jesus Christ. Love to all
JessieAugust 20, 2017
These responses by Ward members that I've been reading in the comments have surprised me. Perhaps because, though I am not divorced, I've experienced some of them as well. Our good friends who were respectively, the ward organist and recently released Primary President, made the decision to leave the church with their eight children. Since then, my spouse was released from his calling and no replacement calling has been issued, and after a short time I was called to.....you guessed it, Nursery. I love my Nursery kids and don't miss the sideways looks in RS but I know some children's parents are uncomfortable with them playing with my children, lest it should prove a contagious disease they might catch from my kids associating with their non-member friends. Fear motivates us to strange and unChristlike behavior.
CathyJune 26, 2017
I guess I was blessed since I never experienced a change in acceptance after my divorce. I was the same person, and I just kept pushing forward, serving, being involved, accepting callings in teaching, leading, music, wherever I was needed. Yes, I was assigned Home Teachers from the High Priest Group, but that is where single women fall in the organization of the church. I have loved all of my HT and they have all helped give blessings when needed to me and my children. My experience has been that if being divorced doesn't bother me, it usually doesn't bother anyone else either. I am the one in charge of how I am feeling, behaving, acting, serving, believing, worshipping, etc. and others' views are up to them. I am sorry for those who have experienced unacceptance. Perhaps it is a lesson that those around you needed to learn. But keep your relationship with the Lord strong and vibrant, as that is the most important relationship you have other than with yourself.
RosieJune 4, 2017
After being divorced for several years, I remarried and moved out of state to Utah. When people in the Utah ward find out this is my 2nd marriage and that I was not widowed, but divorced, I have again felt stigmatized. I was so surprised to find the divorce stigma still present after being remarried and active in this ward for many years.I inwardly smile at their reactions because I feel whole as a person and the people being judgmental have never faced the challenges I have lived through.
Kate BrothersonJune 2, 2017
Author Brene Brown write a book called Dating Greatly and it focuses on many of the issues in this article. One of her certified trainers, Liz Dalton will be doing a workshop in Salt Lake City on June 24th to work through the "Shame" many of us Latter Day Saints feel when we get divorced I was married to a member of the bishopric when I got divorced. I chose not to discuss my reason for divorcing to anyone and was treated VERY poorly by so many of my neighbors. It wasn't until my ex-husband was arrested for raping a girl that I felt my previous ward member "friends" quit their judgement toward me. Having a great group of friends and resources for workshops, such as Brene Brown's Rising Strong had helped me focus on myself instead of others. I've become an observer instead of the victim. I know that if I don't want others to judge me, I get to first Practice not judging. May we all be kind to one another and do as Christ teaches which is to LOVE one another.
SarahJune 1, 2017
@kim. Go to search box in Facebook Type LDS Divorce Survivors Group A few come up. Lisa's is private, you ask to join. And bingo....you are in!
Still StrivingJune 1, 2017
" Why would anyone be cruel to or alienate someone so obviously in need of support and love? ... Why would a bishop 'isolate' someone in need? Having a little trouble with this." ... I experienced divorce more than 20 years ago. As a man, I believe I may have experienced less "isolation" than many. Even so, it was there. People don't know how to respond, and so they avoid. Others decide they've "set a bad example" and shun. Particularly attractive divorcees (male or female) may cause others to feel threatened and insecure. Bishops struggle to know what callings to extend, and must balance the feelings of those with whom they might serve with, and how they'll be seen and influence others after having divorced. Some members and leaders alike may even find themselves "taking sides" perhaps without intending to, and judging something they typically know so very little about--from a "full story" perspective. Further, a vocal ex-spouse, especially one who is likeable and charismatic can share too much that is one-sided. The other ex-partner realizes any attempt to "rebut" will just muddy the waters and "tar" them both further. So, he or she remains silent, which can be interpreted as unable to rebut... And the damage continues...and people react. ... Truly, we must always strive to be patient, tolerant and loving. Even someone who seems (or perhaps even really was) at "greater fault" has reasons they got there that only the Savior will fully understand. Our assignment is to lift, inspire, love, and "feed" the Savior's sheep regardless of circumstances. When we meet our Redeemer, as we all one day will, He will have great tenderness for those who love deeply, especially those individuals who seem less than "love-able." Isolation, and at times even unkindness, does indeed happen. Let us not be a part of it in any way.
FrancesMay 31, 2017
If you truly believe both parties are always at fault and need to take responsibilty for their part of the problem, you have never been married to someone suffering from borderline personality disorder. The person is quite capable of targeting everything of value to you and purposefully destroying it. Indeed, the worst mistake you can make is to let them know you value fidelity or honesty or your children. They have no limits and will even murder their children to meet their needs. So please stop the foolish statements. We have survived life in hell and have no more energy for your uneducated statements. If you want to participate, educate yourself first, advice that would serve every bishop equally well.
AnonymousMay 31, 2017
This treatment does not occur within the LDS church alone. This happens because of human nature, and in any Christian domination people are treated this way, in this situation. What is the purpose of this article? To raise awareness for Mormons only?
Michele CrockerMay 30, 2017
Thank you, Lisa. It's not very often an article gets this many comments! I could echo many statements already made; mine was indeed challenging but my sisters' fit the leadership response pattern described. Instead of telling my story, I'd like to clarify a couple points and add something not yet addressed. There seems to be a pattern here of mental illness, particularly personality disorders. This doesn't apply to a 'normal' divorce, if one can call it that; any divorce is crazy time as we become our natural man or woman. Couples counseling does not apply here, it can make the victim less safe. For those who are incredulous as to the stories being a reality, try reading something like "The Sociopath Next Door (Antisocial Personality Disorder)." They're not all serial killers; some are just good at getting you to do their work for them. This book focuses mostly on the low end of the spectrum just described. They all have no conscience or remorse, and are counting on you having one. Have you ever watched a thriller crime shows? Then you know what's involved here. This is only one pervasive problem among the personality disorders. More important than trying to discern whether a person is personality disordered, is whether there is domestic violence (DV). I was the victim of DV long before I learned he is severely disordered. Both myself and my children were abused. Most batterers were abused, and/or watched it occur, so it's usually learned very early and the statistics on change are extremely poor. If you believe you are the victim of DV, contact your local advocacy support system. The national number is 1-800-799-7233 | 1-800-787-3224 (TTY), and they can give you your local option if you don't know how to access it otherwise. DV is a pattern of power and control, and will become worse if you do nothing. It's aim is to keep you locked in place, doing exactly that. You are the best assessor of the danger; you know this person the most. Advocates rely on your instincts rather than tell you what to do. Advocacy is not in the business of trying to get you to leave, but to help you be safe and empower you to make whatever decisions will lead to this outcome. I became a DV advocate and chemical dependency counselor in the years after leaving my children's father. It's a sad fact they'll use the children to get back at you as well. As far as there being no disciplinary action, people being judgmental and other similar challenges, it's horrific when you go through it, but you can and will come out the other side. Getting PTSD from the trauma of living with an abusive and controlling person only makes it more difficult when people don't believe you. Yes, it's re-traumatizing. There was a fairly recent excellent Meridian article on living with a sex/pornography addict, linked to ldsliving.org or similar, or I located it directly there. I believe the title was /An Open Letter to Bishops About.,,' It's worth searching for as it's very validating and talks a lot about this secondary trauma. We go through the stages of grief and loss, and hopefully don't become stuck in the stage of anger, etc., but keep moving. It's not a linear path, as we move around in the stages. It is indeed sad this occurs, but people are ignorant. Learn to forgive them, eventually, as the Savior requires this of us. I wish you all well.
KimMay 30, 2017
I just finalized my divorce after 34 years last week. How do I find this Facebook page?
VaniceMay 29, 2017
Although I do not agree with all off the article, there are valid points and yes I have felt many of them. It was very difficult and I've had a long road to travel that wasn't easy and yes I did most of it alone with my children depending only on me. I really had no choice and I was alone because of my lack of faith in God at the time after all HE is a man too. However, those struggles made me stronger and who I am today. I know now I really wasn't alone my Father in Heaven was there every step of the way I just wasn't listening because I didn't feel worthy. I also believe it is not the people in the church that make the church. It is the gospel and the teachings. People are not perfect and they make mistakes, don't think about how what they say or do will be received. My experience is they don't know what to do because they don't understand. However, I don't base my faith on the members and what they do I base mine on God and my relationship with him. You're never alone if you believe and lean on God not people. Keep the faith in God and you'll always be right where you need to be, learning the lessons you need to learn. It won't be easy but nothing worth having is.
EFMMay 29, 2017
I believe what is being described here is symptomatic of a latter-day phenomenon of family worship as opposed to individual worship. As LDS, somewhere along the way, well-meaning but misguided leaders turned our salvation a collective matter while it is anything but collective. Interestingly, this phenomenon actually acts to "weaken" rather than strengthen families. More than once, as a home teacher, I had a spouse complain about the husband not providing what she considered a commensurate amount of "priesthood leadership in the home." This led to marital discord and discontentment. Yet, I knew the man to be a hard worker, to be a serious provider for his family and to only want his wife to appreciate him a little more, especially in the bedroom. But the wife's displeasure with the husband in the church setting was such that she was not interested in him in other ways, which aggravated the problem. Sure, the man could have honored his priesthood a little more and been a better leader in the home, but he was not as well developed spiritually as was his wife, and she, rather than recognize and cover for him, exposed him. As a people we have fused our worship to our family dynamics and that is destroying our faith. We cannot stop divorce, the times are such that divorce is going to continue happening in the church; it is predicted in the scriptures, but we can prevent the divorce from destroying our faiths. I separated some 10 years ago and remain divorced from this day. I have not had a home teacher to speak of in 10 years. Most of my bishops actually have avoided me, except for 2 very remarkable men... the rest have been forgettable. I had a stake president whom I believe would have taken me outside and physically beaten me, upon confession, had he been allowed. Friends unfriended me long before unfriending people was cool on Facebook. But, unlike most of the people whose opinion I have read, I never really could have cared less. I have always gone to church for me. Even when I was married, I never went to church for my wife, my children or anyone else, it has always been about a very personal communion with God; it is my time and no one else's time; it can't be anyone else's time; salvation is individual. So, do I care if I am ignored, ridiculed, laughed at, spoken about, or what have you? Hell no. Have you read what the early Saints did to the prophet Joseph Smith, himself? He was decried, derided, ridiculed, and betrayed. And when Joseph's sufferings are compared to the Saviour's what does God ask of him? "Art thou greater than He?" Who am I not to suffer. It was I who decided to marry in the temple and to preach this narrative about being a forever family. Then, divorce. Of course people will lose confidence in me; of course, I will lose the moral high ground and the narrative; obviously, I brought it upon myself; if I go to church to be validated in these things, I am going to lose my faith very quickly. The underlying issue with the article is that it proposes a narrative of one party being right and the other being wrong, but in divorce there's no such thing. If there is dysfunction and bad behavior on someone's part, those things can be worked out and if they can't the wronged spouse has to figure out how to leave the union owning up to his/her own part of the dysfunction. Nobody is dysfunctional alone. When we break up a temple sealing we lose confidence, self-confidence, the confidence of our dhildren, the confidence of our leaders, the confidence of our congregation; it is natural. As I read it recently, "you don't get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate." Step up and go to church to worship by the Savior's love and not be coddled by your friends.
JenniferMay 29, 2017
This article really resonated with me. I got divorced about three years ago after 24 years of marriage. My ex husband cheated on me for 20 years but because he was so charming and persuasive he had the whole ward and neighborhood believing that he was the good guy. I found out after the divorce that he had been spreading lies and making me look bad to our neighborhood for years behind my back. Because his parents were also in the ward and I lived in the same neighborhood in a different house after the divorce I felt like I couldn't go to church which made me look even worse along with the lies he spread about me. He told these lies to my children and my family and turned them against me as well, until I put my version of what happened out. He abused me and raped me even after we were divorced. Instead of supporting me or keeping track of me, my bishop turned a blind eye to the situation. When I got strong enough to move away, the bishop refused to send my childrens' church records to my new ward and asked to have a copy of our custody papers because he didn't believe that I had custody of my children. Going through my ex's excommunication and then seeing the way he continued to treat me after he got his blessings back really destroyed my faith in the church. I spent 20 years trying to pretend to be a perfect family while going through this abuse and manipulation. I think the church needs a resource for women who are trapped and powerless in abusive relationships so that they can get counseling and have resources to be able to leave if they need to. Moving away was the best thing that I ever did for myself and my kids, but the whole neighborhood where my ex lives still thinks that he is the victim and he has had no repercussions because of all of the terrible things he did for so many years. I think it's a huge problem in the church. Thanks for this article.
Ann GMay 29, 2017
Thank you for addressing this issue and for providing the list of ways we can be supportive. My daughter has experienced the lack of support by ward members who believe his charismatic story and have no clue what really happens in the home. The bishop sent the husband a text message outlining a strategy, and cautioned him not to let the wife know the bishop was on his side. However, the bishop unwittingly copied the wife! Understandably, she changed wards! Bishops are lay clergy and are not professionally trained to deal with personality disorders. Stay close to the Lord. He is the true support.
Sister who's been thereMay 28, 2017
Glen Danielsen: Why would you doubt that statement? My bishop at the time of my divorce, a close friend, instructed my home teachers (as one of them explained to me later) to not provide any assistance to me because "she has to learn to stand on her own two feet now." I went for years with a broken sprinkler system and was ridiculed to my face by a member neighbor because my front lawn had a dead spot in the middle of it and, as he put it, was a disgrace to the neighborhood. But nobody would help me with it. I had previously been a Relief Society President, Gospel Doctrine teacher, member of a Young Women's presidency, and so on, but since my divorce 13 years ago, I have held zero callings that really mean anything aside from visiting teacher. I was accosted in the hallway at church and questioned as to why I had asked my abusive husband to leave given how long we had been together; after all, if it was really that bad, why didn't I just leave? Stop having trouble with it, Glen. The folks in Zion aren't uniformly good hearted, nor do they always see through the smokescreens put up by deceptively charming abusers.
SamMay 28, 2017
The LDS culture has very little divorce maturity. I know this is true. Especially in Utah. But there's nothing you can do about it. I have great respect for my ecclesiastical leaders but the average member really is clueless on how to strengthen, nurture, cultivate relationships once divorce enters the picture. Sadly hypocrisy prevails as members struggle to know how to act, what to say, etc. It's evidence that they are not fully converted. Yet.
Michelle RussellMay 28, 2017
I so identify with this article. Moving away was the biggest blessing for me. And I finally learned to separate the truth of the gospel from the "stiff necked" people within the wards. I will never again let some heartless judging people push me away from the gospel of Jesus Christ
Kim CMay 28, 2017
I think going to LDS social services before during and after divorce can help. The LDS social services can also communicate with the church leaders if the client request it. LDS social services can also have a training class for the church leaders on knowing how to help others during this time and avoid gossiping isolating etc.
LupineMay 27, 2017
Glen (and some others), where have you been hiding out? LDS members are no different than anyone else who can't handle those who don't meet their own interpretation of religious CULTURAL expectations. Ward members can be vicious/gossipy or wonderfully kind but these reported hurts are real, even before the divorce happens. Few, if any leaders, believe abuse victims and if they are sisters, automatically assume the sister has been a cold fish to her husband's physical wants and needs. An abusive partner in the marriage may often not lose their temple recommend unless the behavior was egregious, or the bishop was fooled by deceit on either side, or their leaders were blindly defensive of the man. (The old boys' club.) Go to an outside counselor, a licensed professional, not to your bishop or stake president for advice and healing. They are rarely trained to help you! Move to a new ward and/or stake if you feel you are being shunned or treated spitefully. Yes, we do shun people, even if it's not officially permitted. And I might add, treatment by ward members isn't always a whole lot better when you are suddenly widowed instead of divorced! Still married couples can suffer massive insecurity, make stupid judgment calls, show total lack of understanding and/or unwillingness to put themselves in someone else's shoes. They're running scared and you're fortunate indeed when they close ranks around you. Your stake can add you to the Singles email list so fast it will blow your mind, as in even before the funeral has been held. Major hurt.
JanMay 27, 2017
Thank you to the Northampton ward who all those years ago, when my husband left, invited me into their homes, filled my calendar with activities, and the single adults who made me a part of their group. Turned a most traumatic time into one of the most beautiful times of my life. I felt loved and cared for.
MaryMay 27, 2017
My son went through a very similar experience as the author of this article. His wife was publicly soft-spoken, sweet and charming. She alienated my son from friends, neighbors, and ward members, and attempted to isolate him from my husband and me. One of the behaviors of people with her diagnosed particular personality disorder is the 'distortion campaign.' She made up terrible things about my son. Unfortunately, their bishop, who had no expertise in personality disorders or marriage counseling made some terrible judgment calls that added to a very painful situation. Church leaders need to know their limitations. This was fairly recent so whatever training there has been in the past was not helpful in this situation. And I would add that ward members need to be very careful in taking sides. You might be very surprised at just how much you don't know.
Anne BeanMay 26, 2017
Another area you did not cover here, is that you are perceived as being a "burden" to the ward as a single parent. I've overheard discussions about women who are moving into the ward labeled right off the bat. Single-mom means more work for everyone else. She's going to need more help, more assistance--no one wants to be her home teacher.
Patty AnnMay 26, 2017
I'm having a very hard time with this article, for several reasons. I am divorced, have been for many years. My anger, frustration, and loneliness, changed me. I was not the same person after I divorced. Yes I had to deal with a few neighbors who rode the gossip bandwagon, but they were there before I divorced. Was I expecting my divorce to change them? If so, no wonder I was hurt. The church was organized to teach us how to return to our Heavenly Father, not to run our lives. YOU need to take full responsibility for your divorce and whatever action lead to it. I don't know the full reason why some people are released from callings after a divorce, in all honesty it's none of my business. It might be the very same reason that caused the divorce that also caused a change in their church calling. YOU DON'T KNOW THE FULL STORY!! STOP berating the church and your ward family because you went through a divorce. If you aren't getting the "supportive help" you need from your ward, look outside of the church for help. There are government agencies that will support and even pay for therapy for you and your family. Call 211 (in Utah), they have all sorts of resources that might assist you. You are in a difficult situation, I know this all too well. Look for the good around you, I promise you will find it, and even try to contribute, you'll feel much better!
Karl ChristenMay 26, 2017
It's an interesting article you wrote. I think you made some personal observations about decisions in terms of your service that may or may not be fair to those in leadership in your ward or stake. I say this because I've gone through a multi-year inactive to active status in my own ward. It's interesting now to compare my emotions and feelings when I was sliding into inactivity and eventually rebellion against the churches precepts and how I feel now. Both were Utah county wards/Stakes, demographically there was not much difference. So could the people in these leadership positions be that radically different or perhaps my perception is that much different now then back then. I remember I had a huge chip on my shoulder about stories like this one. But coming back into activity I'm overwhelmed by the effort and love that's been showered on me. Sure, not every member in my ward on Stake steps up and demonstrates continuous Christ like love, but I've never expected it. Frankly I felt entitled in the past and I don't now. Perhaps you could look at your position a bit differently and think about what others may feel when the do talk to you about your situation. Maybe it's not disdain but a feeling of insecurity or non-understanding. I think we often project our own insecurity on others when we have these experiences. Anyway, I wish you the best. Fellow divorced LDS member in Pleasant Grove Utah.
DanielleMay 26, 2017
My ex-husband was also mentally ill and very likable. Managed to spin some amazing tales. I actually found the bishops, stake presidents and even the general authorities he dealt with to be completely uninformed and ill trained for the important decisions they were making. If we are going to allow bishops to counsel, we need to train them.
Tamara ShawMay 26, 2017
Thank you! I went inactive for 8 years because my heart was broken, first by my ex husband then by my ward and bishop who systematically shunned me at the end of my marriage. I only came back due to the warmth and acceptance of the LDS 40 Something Facebook group I found one night. They encouraged me to regain my testimony and to return to church. My current ward is amazing and my bishop is patient with me, even now, when I falter and stumble. Please, if someone in your ward is going thru a divorce, please pray for guidance on how to be supportive and loving. They need it.
Matt CampbellMay 26, 2017
One thing that is desperately need in the LDS Church are real world local LDS Divorce Support Groups, as in meet weekly in the same room together. One group for Divorced men, the other for Divorced Women. Other churches often use the 13 week course for their support groups as outlined in divorcecare.com, covering the different aspects of healing from divorce. It would be great, if there was a LDS version or this to help divorce members of the Church heal, and receive the support they may not be receiving in their home ward.
Mike LovinsMay 26, 2017
I empathize with singles who have felt alienated and mistreated, but we have to remember the Savior was mistreated and betrayed by his own and chose to serve. The declaration "I come to serve" will absolutely transform your experience in the church. I think of a divorced friend, whose wife left him years ago with a handicapped daughter in my ward who is too busy reaching out on a weekly basis to get involved in any other concern. Our relationship is not with church members, but with The Lord Jesus Christ, whose atonement heals everything it touches..
john anonymousMay 26, 2017
IT also happens in reverse: the wife gets away with a glib tongue!!! I am close to such a family, and the lack of fellowship continues a quarter of a century later! The real fault in these tragedies is us who perpetuate the cold shoulder. Shame on us!
GlennMay 26, 2017
Fantastic article and FB page! Thank you :-)
Dayl BrinkmanMay 26, 2017
My advice to you? Move and get a new ward. See the new bishop straight away, and explain your needs to him. For various reasons, I have visited many different wards in the church. And they all have a very different feel or "spirit" to them. They are not all the same. Some have soooo much more of a culture of kindness and charity to them. So, if things are going well where you are at? Don't condemn them for being the people they are...just move on. Visit a few wards...find out...move there....make a fresh start. It will change your life.
Anonymous ex husbandMay 26, 2017
Mormon culture has a belief that you stay together at all costs. Oftentimes, this staying together in terrible circumstances of abuse, conflict, and distrust is far more toxic for the kids especially than simply splitting up. There is no nobility in that situation. Our kids didn't go to church much, and they never saw their parents go to the temple. Singing "Families Can be Together Forever" would have been hollow and painful for them. But now we can discuss it confidently, at least at my house.
withheldMay 26, 2017
Lisa, Thank you very much for your article. As a male member of the LDS church who has recently gone through a divorce I have found nothing but support from my leaders and there was no change in my callings. However, I identify and I have experienced many of the same things that you did with regard to friends and church members. My home teachers also stopped coming. Though less common for men, I experienced emotional, verbal, and physical abuse over 15+ years. I stayed in an unhealthy marriage much too long because of the seriousness of the covenants I had made, the impact I feared for my children - one of who has special needs, the fear I wouldn't receive much custody, the financial consequences, as well as the fear that nobody would believe what I had gone through. It took a lot of courage to file for divorce and it wasn't until after a lot of praying and talking with my priesthood leaders that I felt that was the right decision. My ex was also a very charming and believable person and spread lies to both our ward and my family to attempt to alienate me and cover up her abusiveness. Despite losing some dear friends, being falsely accused, having my character questioned and disparaged, feeling alone, the financial implications etc I am now in a much better place. I am stronger and I have learned much as a result of all these challenges. I am closer to our Heavenly father and He has blessed me with many new friends who are understanding and supportive of my situation.
GlendaMay 26, 2017
I left a marriage af 12 years with a husband who had at least 4 affairs. I am grateful that I listened to God about staying and about going. Many of my friends couldn't believe the lies that were part of our outward image. They 'didn't want to get in the middle of it' or 'take sides'. I moved soon afterwards to a very supportive ward which hadn't known him and was able to find friends for me and my children. One dear friend came and shared with me that she had gone to the bishop who 'couldn't believe her story'. This same bishop was wonderful to me. I think the difference was that he knew her husband and felt connected. I would also remind people that all church counselors are not great. And, if you feel you aren't being believed - go find another one. It hasn't been easy because charismatic people can be very good at manipulating others to see what they want you to see and can transform like chameleons to become what you want. In the end, my ex fooled me and everyone. The best advice I can get is to stay stubbornly strong and find your voice. There are times when I feel connected to people in my ward and times when I don't. That is true for every member. And, it's ok. Personally, I focused on raising my kids. I did have a member come up to me one time after finding out I was single. She told me she couldn't believe it because my kids seem so normal. Also, I think bishops need to tell people who have suffered abuse to go to the police instead of trying to keep it all in house.
Kathryn Kelly CarmonaMay 26, 2017
So hard! Some of those stories are heart wrenching, and extremely frustrating to read... Ugh! I was fortunate to have support from friends and family, and most of my church leaders...bishops in the church are to be counseled with, and their advice prayerfully taken into consideration, but in the end, divorce is a decision only the individuals can make. I think people with difficult marriages often live with silence and shame, and just put on a fake happy face. They gut it out in misery, and then it's a big surprise to everyone when the bomb drops. I was vocal with my bishops about the difficulties in my marriage throughout its duration, and consistently sought professional counseling. I think because of that, it was not a huge surprise when I finally divorced. In the end, I felt confident and at peace because I knew I had done all I could to preserve my marriage. This has made it easier for me to not worry what others think or say. After my divorce, I was called to be relief society president in the new ward that I moved to. Crazy huh?! (I would've gladly served in nursery.) That service as Relief Society president was a huge blessing in my life, and I think I was also good for the very traditional ward that I lived in. We sisters all belong to Relief Society. That is where we belong whether we are divirced, married or single...I love Relief Society! I don't know why some people have better experiences than others. Most likely just the differences in the personalities of everyone involved. But I hope we all remember that even though we don't always feel like we fit in, we always belong! We need to reach out and love those who are suffering through divorce and its aftermath...My experience has given me empathy for what others are going through, and I hope that I've been able to lift someone's burdens because of that.
Please withhold my name.May 25, 2017
When I went through my divorce, I was not a member of the church. I have been alone for twenty-five years now--and very lonely, but too afraid to let any man close to me after what my "ex" put me through. He was a street angel/house devil. He lied in court and took our son away from me--and our son did not want to live with him. He then neglected our son (just like he did when we were married) and over time, my son became a liar and a thief like his father, and a misogynist, also like his father. I was able to get custody of my son back when he became suicidal because of his father's neglect and abuse, but I wasn't able to undo all the damage before my son went into the military. He served in Iraq four times in four years, insists he does not have PTSD, but told me he feels angry all the time. I love my son, but I do not trust him, and I'm afraid to let him near me. I suffered a spine injury, and my son has injured me in the past, not out of anger, but out of impulsiveness. Such an injury now could put me in a wheelchair for life. Being afraid of being hurt both emotionally and physically is pure hell. When I joined the church, the members were overall very kind to me. I had hoped I'd meet a Latter-Day Saint and get married again but after eleven years in the church, and reading this article, I don't need another abusive personality disorder in my life. I applaud Mike for helping his new wife to heal. I wish there were more men like him out there. No one can understand the devastation of being married to a man who can lie better than I could tell the truth unless they have been through it--and it's far more widespread than anyone wants to believe. I'm grateful I'm out of such a destructive marriage. I'm grateful that my church family has accepted me. I'm grateful for my Home Teachers, one who is elderly, but very smart and very helpful. I'm grateful for my Visiting Teacher who, along with her husband, has welcomed me into their home. If I ever can marry again, I will pray fervently for Heavenly Father's guidance and listen to His counsel, and then do what He tells me to do, even if it hurts, because I trust He will never encourage me to marry a man who is so insecure again.
LynnMay 25, 2017
Brother Virgil Lawler: I am glad that you wrote your comment. After losing so much, it can be another loss to also lose your established home teachers. It can feel to us that we must have elderly home teachers assigned so that we are not a temptation to others, and that can be hurtful. But after reading your comment I can see that your desire to serve is sincere and that your feelings are tender too. Thank you.
AnonymousMay 25, 2017
My now husband had a very similarsituation, except it was his ex that was charming and charismatic. The Ward (that we still live in) was pretty "weird" to him, from avoiding him, to 'that look', to gossiping. He was very upset about it, but felt comfort as the Spirit told him that soon many would see the error of their judgements. As he remained faithful and active, and they saw her behavior, soon many came to realize that she was trying to deceive them also. Iguesstgats a benefit of living in a small town. A year after his divorce we met on an odd dating site. That same Ward welcomed me with open arms, with some of the members telling me that if I was not serious about being with him, that I should leave now, because he had been hurt so badly. They truly do love him.....and now our new family.
Brent GarnerMay 25, 2017
The subject of divorce is a very sensitive one in the LDS Church. When my wife, who suffered from mental illness, divorced me, I became a pariah to almost everyone in our ward. Only 2 families would have anything to do with me. I was even denied home teachers on instruction from my bishop. Ultimately, my bishop referred me to the stake president for disciplinary action due to the misinformation my mentally ill former spouse spread around. Yes, I had to endure the prospect of being excommunicated or disfellowshipped because of what my ex-wife had said. This despite the fact that I was the one coming to church and bringing my children to church. She quit coming. She took up drinking and smoking. She had men over all night long. That was 28 years ago. But I have never been allowed by my local church leaders to move past it. I had the opportunity to apply for a teaching position at BYU-I and in the very first interview my divorce was brought up. I learned later that even though it had been more than 2 decades since the divorce, that CES was going to consider my divorce in the decision about whether to hire me or not. Ultimately, they did not hire me. Now, some would wonder if I am still active after all of this. I am as active in the church as my health and the health of my 2nd wife and disabled daughter will allow. You see, the gospel is true, but the membership is not.
MonicaMay 25, 2017
This article was spot on and VERY much my experience. My ex is a very charming and likable guy, so I was not believed when I told my Bishop and stake president of his abuse towards myself and our daughters. I was given Ensign articles on forgiveness and chastised for contacting the authorities regarding a sexual incident he had with one of our daughters (no joke--the bishop said I should've talked to my husband about my daughters allegations before going to the police). He can look people straight in the eyes and lie. It was easier for them to believe I left my custom home on the golf course with no job and 4 small children because I was 'hard to please' or 'lost it', than to believe he was actually harming his family in every way. Lay clergy definitely needs to be trained on the profile of abusive personalities. They are MORE charming & likeable than the average person....and they do that ON PURPOSE to avoid public detection of their truly dark characters.
Virgil LawlerMay 25, 2017
As one of "the ward's oldest High Priests," I am scratching my head. Do you consider High Priests like me lesser home teachers somehow? When I look around my ward and stake, I see that most of the elderly High Priests are among the best home teachers available. We have experience, knowledge, and time (after all, we're retired) that younger men through no fault of their own cannot hope to match. Consider that your priesthood leaders may have done you a tremendous favor assigning you to these home teachers. Think about it. Pray about it. And if you don't want them around, please tell your High Priests group leader. I'm sure your ward can use them where they're appreciated and not wasted.
Name withheldMay 25, 2017
Glen, I know it's hard to believe that our fellow churchgoers could act unsupportive, but it really can happen. My ex-husband begged me to keep his affair a secret, and I "obeyed" his wishes, telling only my closest friend. I wasn't excited about that news getting out either! I was horrified to learn that while I kept quiet, he was out convincing many people that I was having an affair. His girlfriend was his constant companion after he moved out. I couldn't figure out why his family and friends weren't suspicious about this new woman who was instantly welcomed, long before our divorce was even final. Why didn't they believe that he was having an affair with her? I believe he told everyone that she was simply a good friend who was helping him through a devastating time. Though she wanted to marry him as soon as both of their divorces were final, he had to delay the marriage just long enough to throw off suspicion. His father (now deceased) never spoke another word to me, and his mother only said a few words of greeting to me days before she died. They had been my family for almost three decades! He met with the bishop and stake president, but they chose to not hold a court, based on his convincing story. Take note that they didn't call me in to ask about his claims and revoke my callings or temple recommend. Apparently he didn't dare tell THEM his lies about my supposed affair. Some ward members who had been very close friends didn't say a word to me for months, and our friendships naturally dissolved. Many others were very kind and thoughtful. I was blessed with the world's best home teachers. I haven't missed a week of church due to the anguish of divorce or the actions of a few members because my testimony of Jesus Christ is my sure foundation and always will be. A final note: years after the divorce, I was given a calling in the nursery, but it never occurred to me to be offended by an inspired calling from the Lord. Being in the nursery with loving, nonjudgmental children is possibly the best calling in the church, and I worked with wonderful women who have become dear friends.
Kathryn J.May 25, 2017
Thanks so much for your personal mission on Facebook; just wish it had been there for me 10 years ago! Or I'd started it....didn't think of it. I consider it a HUGE blessing that my ward, neighborhood, and my ex's family gave me--and him--great support. I also think it was because I went to all of them and told MY side of the story--about his porn and infidelity--before he could. Makes a big difference. Priesthood leaders have a much better understanding than they did 10 years ago. But I still hear stories of realasings from callings, shunning, gossip and bishops/stake presidents who do all the "old school" things. It's heartbreaking.
KevinMay 25, 2017
This is an incredible story and one that should open eyes and ears and most of all understanding and compassion. My wife and I had the opportunity to serve in a Branch in our area. This Branch is composed of an entire apartment complex. We learned very quickly that a significant portion of our members came to us from broken marriages, and a good portion of those from those very circumstances described in this story. It is incredibly difficult to walk into the Chapel on Sunday when you feel like you are "one of them". As a member of the Presidency it became very easy to spot those new members of our Branch and to immediately befriend them and discover what we could do for them. The interesting part was that when these members realized that there were many in our little Branch that were in the exact same situation that would open up the dialogue and the love from those around them. It was amazing to witness. We did not draw lines or break into groups. We were one, and a good portion of these members served in those "important callings". We had RS Presidents, Primary Presidents, HP Group Leaders, and every other calling that was filled by those members that were suffering through this terrible time in their lives. What they didn't realize is how blessed we were to have the knowledge and experience and willingness to serve that they offered. This was a true testimony to me that we are all Gods children, and it is us that draws lines and build barriers. Open your eyes, open your heart, be as the Savior would have you be. It takes effort and understanding, not judgement and rdicule.
IngridMay 25, 2017
This is a most interesting topic and observations some of which I have experienced myself. I am separated from my spouse though not legally yet. I'd like to say, dear readers, brothers and sisters, stand in your light. When we are strengthened after a trial of faith, seek to strengthen another. The Lord needs us to do his work. That may mean staying in a congregation that doesn't give us all the support we'd like. That may mean giving a leader our listening ears when all he or she wants to do is to educate and dismiss us. This is our mission, to follow Jesus. He was not understood or welcome by His own people. He stayed and fulfilled His mission nonetheless. Seek personal revelation and trust in His amazing grace. Love you all!
Connie BMay 25, 2017
I am heartbroken that anyone has these experiences in their Wards! When I went through my divorce, I was loved and supported by my Bishop and Ward friends. It was such a healing and loving atmosphere for me and my children. I was treated like Christ teaches us to treat each other. How my heart aches for those who've not experienced that, be it Sisters or Brothers! Thank you for sharing. I hope this helps illuminate what needs to change in our Wards and Stakes.
Sasha Bill KwapinskiMay 25, 2017
I was truly blessed by the support and acceptance that came my way when I was divorced several years ago. In about 15 years of raising my children as a single father, I never felt excluded or marginalized. I certainly never felt that I posed some kind of a threat to other peoples' marriages, Another family with young children was assigned to take me under their wing, as a sort-of "HT & VT" combination. Our bishop and other ward leaders stood by us all the way. This included a time when legal action was brought against me when raised the real danger of myself and my children ending up homeless. These circumstances were soon changed for the better, in fulfillment of a priesthood blessing which was given to me by my bishop. I was remarried about 6 years ago, and my wife, who had also been divorced, experienced nothing but acceptance and support from the leaders and members of her ward.
SusanMay 25, 2017
Thank you so much for this article. I truly hope that people will read it carefully and have their hearts open to understand. My precious daughter went through the same thing. Twobishops who literally "threw her under the bus", never really been leaving or understanding what she was trying to say. Her ex was very manipulative, charismatic, and turned every truth into a congested lie. It got to the point where she would not meet with her bishop unless her father was with her. It was a heartbreaking situation made even more so by those who should have nurtured her and her children. Certainly more needs to be done to enlighten ecclesiastical leader's as well as those in the ward settings. She almost lost her self in all of the judge mental behavior by those who certainly should have known better. Fortunately she is strong and hanging onto her testimony by her fingernails, made a new life for herself. I would never wish this on anyone. The victim is abused twice: once by the spouse and again by those within the church. May we ever be more Christlike and mindful of those who are physically, emotionally, spiritually, and mentally battered.
A Mom in GeorgiaMay 25, 2017
His is a wonderful article. One which needs to be heard over and over again. Instead of the word "divorce" the words" parents of a teenage daughter who is pregnant, child who has drug problem, a child who has emotional problem, etc" . It seems anyone who is not living the normal Latter Daty family existence, is often shunned and made to feel as a leper. This happ Ned to our family when one of our daughters became pregnant while in high school. There was another youth at the same time who was dying from cancer. Her family received all kind of support and help, while our family was suffering too, yet felt the ridicule and shunning of our ward family. This was the most difficult time of our life in the church. After she had the baby and we returned to our home ward, we still received the cold shoulder from most everyone. I would overhear people saw such things as, " Don't let your kids play with ----, because you know what happen to their family." It was like we were contagious. At first, I would attend church for just the Sacrament portion of the meetings. Little by little and over years, I was able to stay for more and more of the meetings. This was a true test of my husbands and my testimonies. Unfortunately, our dear daughter has nothing todo with the church now that she is a adult. I'm not sure if she will ever come back because of her deeply hurt feeling about how she was treated.
LV GaskinsMay 25, 2017
Wow, I am so sorry and sad that these things have happened to so many people. I'm also extremely grateful that when I got divorced after a toxic marriage, my ward and family rallied around me, helped me settle into my new home and I honestly never felt judged by anyone (besides myself) or ostracized. There were plenty of times that I left a class during lessons about eternal families or marriage because I had a hard time knowing where I fit into things during that time, though. I know I felt very self-conscious about my situation. Maybe it depends on where you live. I'm so thankful to live where I do and to have such a loving ward. I only hope that we can all learn to be loving to each other, and ourselves, no matter what the circumstances.
Jill JensenMay 25, 2017
I felt the exact same way. We had lived in a small city in Utah when I found out that my husband had been in a relationship with a married woman much older than he was before and after high school, his mission and our temple marriage. Not only that but he had been exposing himself to women in our small town. I was mortified but had 2 small children at the time. Luckily our bishop was very loving to me. Having come from a sexually, physically and emotionally abusive LDS home. I tried to get through it. Naturally his parents openly blamed me. My friends who had even been victims of his "show and tell" were uncomfortable around me and I felt so alone. But I stayed. I felt like I didn't have a choice. We even had another baby. About 4 years we moved to a new state. We were firmly rooted in our new ward but I still didn't trust my husband. I tried. I really did. I prayed to know if this was continuing so I wasn't caught by surprise again. The exposing himself did happen, to someone I considered a close friend. She told me about it then her husband made her recant her story saying that she misunderstood. I knew it was my answer. I had to leave him. Much like the authors ward, mine turned on me because he told them I was cheating on him. I couldn't believe it! The biggest group of mean girls included the bishop's wife. I was very hurt but didn't bother to defend myself. I knew it wouldn't do any good. He lied and they believed him. I moved to a different ward with my 3 children. I did always feel like an outsider at church with everyone else's apparent "happy family" but I was able to keep enough of my testimony to know that it wasn't the Gospel, it was the imperfect people and I needed the Gospel and so did my kids. I did find a small group of friends and eventually found an amazing husband on one of those LDS dating websites. It was so difficult and there were many times over those 16 years I felt so alone and like I would never fit in. Just remember that no matter how terrible you feel, how alone you think you are, Jesus Christ knows exactly how you feel. He loves you and wants to help you. I know he helped me. I will be forever grateful.
Mike C.May 25, 2017
Glen Danielsen..it happens. it happened. it is true, beyond logic. Please see us as your brother or sister, struggling, hurting, needing to feel included. Be as the savior, compassionate in our time of need. Lisa is amazing, brought me into the amazing facebook group when I needed it the most. I was blessed with a wonderful bishop, but it was the ward members who treated me as if I had the plague.
Jilly PratherMay 25, 2017
How in the world can LDS people who go to church each Sunday, and take the Sacrament be so judgemental and cruel? I don't understand. I was a victim of church ostrasization also. It's unbearable.
TheresaMay 25, 2017
That is about what it was like for me, too. Especially if the other spouse is charismatic, especially if you are the one who finally was able to leave your situation, you are seen as the person who 'broke up' the marriage. If you don't have support from your Bishop or other Church leaders, it can be very hard. But I also found that some people can be kind, and the occasional kindnesses were enough to keep me going. God knows your situation, and He helps us along.
zeke abramsMay 25, 2017
Very well said. I'm quite moved at your intestinal fortitude and how you faced the upheaval and fallout of a bad-gone-worse situation. I salute you.
SheilaMay 25, 2017
Thank you for writing the story for so many that have gone through this life changing event. There is hope on the other side but getting there is a real struggle.
ChristineMay 25, 2017
I appreciate your article and your support group. I am not divorced myself but I have had a few people close to me that are. I have seen some of the challenges and good things they have found in the church while they were going through this transition. The one thing I've learned the most is not to judge, even if it appears that one person "at fault" or it seems shocking that a marriage of a number of years is breaking up. If it is there is most likely years of disfunction and pain behind the breakup regardless of what actions caused the final breakup. I agree the people going through divorce need support and love and not isolation. After reading this I've been prompted to invite one of my divorced friends to lunch. Thanks for bringing light to this topic! I think all of us can do better.
name withheldMay 25, 2017
I have now been divorced 10 years and have gone through what you have described. I moved right after my divorce out of state and still felt isolated when I moved into my new ward. I had a very difficult time, but I decided I was not going to let the members ruin my joy. I joined a book club, a Zumba group, and became facilitator for the ARP program and I trusted in the Lord. And I have survived.
Beverely TelfordMay 25, 2017
Wow! This article is so enlightening and so true. Thank you for making us more aware of how we can help these victims of divorce. There are too many of them that turn against the Church because of how they are being treated.
MikeMay 25, 2017
It saddens me to say that I know of two cases when the husband was either abusive or unfaithful to his wife, (one was a member of the high council who cheated on his wife and was not excommunicated, and the other was the high priest group leader), and the priesthood leaders sided with the husband instead of the wife who filed for divorce. While looking for a new wife on an LDS dating site, I quickly learned about many divorced women who had been so hurt in their prior marriage that they were very wary of establishing a close online relationship with men. They were active and attractive women who were still single for several years. Two months ago I married the ex-wife of the high priest group leader who was domineering and demeaning to her during their 34 years of marriage to the point that he had crushed her self-esteem. She is a wonderful, talented, intelligent, loving, and devout woman who loves to serve people and who had been a Relief Society president, a Young Women's president, and served in the stake Young Women's presidency along with several other callings. After a few weeks of me courting her and telling all the reasons I admired her and cared for her, she regained her self esteem. She had been seeing a therapist to help her regain her self-esteem. One day when she came into the therapist's office for her appointment, the therapist told her in amazement that she looked five years younger and looked as if a huge burden had been lifted off her shoulders. My wife told her she had found a man who loved her, praised her, admired her, and treated her with respect and kindness. After my wife who didn't really love me during most of our 41 years of marriage divorced me, my new wife and I are so grateful that the Lord brought us together and are enjoying the love and happiness we never experienced in our prior marriages.
SarahMay 25, 2017
Lisa, great article. Thank you. Unless you have been there done that and sent all the postcards, it is hard to understand. I get it. But if people can just take on board your comments of what people need and do those things in the future, less of us would get hurt and feel so alone. I pray people will ' rememebr ' this when it is needed , so they can then be a listening ear, an unbiased friend. Sometimes people just need to talk it out....for weeks and months ( and years!) be that friend who lets them. They don't want solutions, they just need an ear ! Don't treat them like lepers... I read when a man leaves, he usually wants to come back after a while. When a woman decides to leave..that's usually it. ( wasn't in my case, but there is always an exception !)
CharlieBrown2292May 25, 2017
Last Sunday, when the Paris Temple was being dedicated, I was trying to enter the underground parking of the Temple, because my current health does not allow me to walk long distances. The Temple staff had a policy of flexibility for people with physical handicaps, so accessing the Parking was never a problem for me each time I showed up there...until this very day! The Brother who was screening incoming cars - someone I knew well, objected to let me in if I could not show a "Reduced Mobility Badge." Such were his instructions he had received for this very day... We later had an Email exchange in which he told me, "If you knew the number of members who tried to cheat to enter the parking lot of the Temple, you would be very surprised. Many members tried to force their entry under various false pretenses, including the possession of a white recommendation, when it was not the case, would present fake Reduced Mobility Badges, etc ..." Indeed, so many members, even those showing up for a Temple Dedication, carry moral flaws they are not willing to consider as a handicap to their spiritual growth. But the Lord will not be fooled, and all those who are being made the victims of prejudice should lean on Him for support and guidance, because He promises not to leave us comfortless. Moving out of a Ward where members are not proving to be supportive is a wise decision. The next wise decision is to seek after the Comforter through prayer, scripture study, Church and Temple attendance, and being focused on serving others. As time goes, the Lord will heal our wounds and provide us with the blessings we truly deserve for our faithfulness and commitment, especially when being faced with severe challenges. Let us then feel sorry for those members and Leaders who missed the lpportunity to behave in a compassionate and charitable manner. This being said, I believe that time has come for our Leaders to dedicate more focused attention to the issue of divorce and how local members and Leaders should handle it when when it happens to their fellow Latter-Day Saints, because an increasing number of people and families in our Congregations are being affected by it and its devastating consequences.
Tom A Allsworth (UK)May 25, 2017
What a tale of sorrow. My heart aches after reading this. We must not add to the pain felt by those who suffer the hurts of divorce. By what right is judgement made by the many. They will only have a portion of the story and not the whole picture. Divorce affects the family deeply and we must be kind, considerate, and loving. There may be physical or mental injuries experienced by family members so we MUST step up and support them. It is true that occasionally rest from a calling would help with the healing process, but not shutting a sufferer up in a call that isolates them from the very help they need. The key to helping in these cases is simple: listen, learn, and love. Don't take sides and never break a confidence. In the book, 'The Water Babies' one reads of a wise lady - Mrs Doasyouwouldbedone by. Let us all follow that message. Love them all and follow the Saviour by being a true friend to one in need.
Glen DanielsenMay 25, 2017
"I heard their stories of being released from their callings and being put in isolated callings." Statements like this, and assertions of having suffered ridicule while suffering the trauma of divorce are hard to attach credibility to. They even fly against logic and normal human response, let alone Latter-day Saint response. Why would anyone be cruel to or alienate someone so obviously in need of support and love? Why would a bishop 'isolate' someone in need? Having a little trouble with this.
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