I have two sons who are Eagle Scouts. Then I worked as an Administrative Assistant in the Boy Scout Office. I saw enough to convince me then that the Church has a much better program. I really liked the article I recently read that stated we are a world wide Church. I feel our time and finances can be better used within the framework of the Church.
AnnaAugust 24, 2015
I think we should take a stand along with others. The Philmont Training center and Scout Ranch alone are worth fighting for. Many LDS youth work and go on treks there every summer. (3 sons and 3 daughters have worked there) The minority shouldn't just take over while the majority backs off. Being whimpy is not the American way.
This is a great opportunity to lead out and save a wonderful institution from being dragged down by out of tune Scout leaders who will soon be gone anyway. Fight for future generations of young men, not just LDS young men.
The Scouting program takes the place of Church for many young men in the country and is a fantastic way to bring young men to God. Read the book Trails to testimony by Brad Harris.
Anything to get kids outside and in a special place like Philmont should be a top priority.
Our influence is crucial to the survival of the entire scouting movement. Scouting is a good thing. When members don't like it, it is because it isn't being carried out the correct way way with enough filled leadership positions, with those who love it.
If I had any say, I would take the singles wards away and make strong troops in the home wards with the returned missionaries who are planning the next party.
Mom of 10 who sees the value of Scouting as a missionary prep and bringing our own and others to higher standards of self reliance and love of God and Country. We need more and better, not less.
michaelAugust 23, 2015
I am an Eagle scout and so is my son. I have been involved in scouting for 40 years. My daughter joined a coed Venture team, I am a Varsity Coach, I also am in charge of the Varsity Mountain Man Rendezvous for our district. So you can see scouting is in my blood. I am very disappointed in the BSA and what they chose to do, by not delaying the vote so the church had a say in it. I believe it is time to get out of Babylon and take a stand. Let us go our own way and they can go theirs
AnnaleeAugust 20, 2015
There is the National BSA way and the LDS BSA way. We have been doing it the LDS BSA way for years.
R G KingAugust 19, 2015
If the Boy Scouts go back to being Trekkers and Blazers and do it in YM as before the church joined with the scouts to link to their already organized stuff for economical and ease reasons, it makes sense t return to the past when new needs come along at same time as old answers no longer apply?
To give up the scouts will be nice if the competitiveness is done away with and cooperative and team effort take their place. One step closer to being City of Enoch material.
new World, new demographics, new mission IMO.
vickieAugust 19, 2015
for some reason as long as the boy scouts allow us to do our own thing...we should stick with the boy scouts....up and until they say that boy scouts have to use those we do not want to use as leaders...then we make a change..I raised 4 sons who all made eagle scout. boy scouts is such an important organization for young boys who grow up to be men....it was for my boys....I have to say that there are more people against all of this the leaders being gay....so why I wonder is this happening....
ajAugust 19, 2015
High Five to Bob! Love it! I was fortunate to grow up in a ward that kept things more equal. The YW went river rafting, skiing (water and snow) and shooting with the boys. I just don't get why that doesn't seem to happen (at least not where I am).
KurtAugust 19, 2015
I too am confident our leaders will make the right decision. Let me add three other thoughts:
1. I believe any re-evaluation will consider issues likely to arise should the Church continue to maintain its current BSA relationship. For example, are the words “and morally straight” likely to remain in the Scout Law? And might merit badge requirement changes and new badges all be suitable for Latter-day Saint boys? At this time, I am especially grateful our Church is led by seers.
2. The Church is far more global than the Boy Scout organization. Even if the BSA had not made this policy change, there would be sufficient reason to re-evaluate our relationship to the Boy Scouts as the activity arm of the Aaronic Priesthood. In the 1940s, our Sunday School nursery manual was published by a mainline Protestant church. But long ago it was determined that we should replace them with our own nursery manuals. It might be time to stop outsourcing the activity arm of the Aaronic Priesthood to the Boy Scouts and to bring it in-house..
3. Should the decision be made to separate, that does not have to be 100% and immediate. A transition period could be a blessing to our young men who would like to finish their Eagle requirements without first having to transition to a new troop.
Whatever the future brings, I hope Church members will feel great appreciation for the positive contribution Scouting has made in the lives of so many of our young men, and for the inestimable contribution of LDS Scout Leaders over almost 100 years.
ajAugust 19, 2015
Amen to what Jeff said and I think the separation is long overdue!
Barbara - Although your son's experience is commendable, it's hardly the norm.
Bob E. McMillanAugust 19, 2015
In my incoming year as a Bishop, the young men went on a high adventure that cost thousands of dollars and depleted the coffers. So the next year, I told them they couldn't go anywhere, and the girls would get to spend the annual budget. The YW ended up taking a simple and ecomical trip to a church history site, and slept on the floor of a leader's relative. Upon reflection I realized two things, first, you don't need to break the bank to have a fulfilling spiritual journey. Second, since our YW leaders never got to go on high adventures when they were young, the had no idea how to make one happen. I should have had the YM leaders organize a trip for them. At any rate, we have generations of discrimination against our YW organizations to repent of. Let's get started.
DavidDAugust 19, 2015
“It is impossible to measure the great good that has come from Scouting during the last century. Skills have been learned, values have been established, good deeds have been done, and lives have been enriched. Scouting skills have also saved lives.”
“Scouting brings out the best in each of us. You’ve learned much from Scouting. Live what you’ve learned and will continue to learn. Help others to hike the trails, to keep steadfast in the paths of truth, of honor, of duty, that all of you can soar together on eagles’ wings. You are part of a mighty army of youth, even a royal army, and every organization, to be successful, has an honored tradition to uphold. May you uphold Scouting’s tradition, for it can be as a lighthouse beacon in the world of stormy seas, it can be a motivation to prepare for your role in life, it can be a yardstick against which you measure your accomplishments.”
Thomas S. Monson
Member – National Executive Board of the Boy Scouts of America for over 40 years
Celebrating the 100th anniversary of Scouting in the U.S. in 2010
DavidDAugust 19, 2015
I would be interested in knowing what the anti-Boy Scout percentage would be of Utah Mormons who are Eagle Scouts or who have sons or fathers or brothers who are Eagle Scouts. My guess -- far, far lower.
DonAugust 19, 2015
As a former District Chairman, HC rep to the district, and 65 year veteran of scouting, I love the program. I would make no effort to influence the brethren, let the Lord be their guides. I have have no more fear of the decision by BSA to open its doors to gay leaders than I did when BSA accepted female Cub Masters. Of course my thinking has been influenced by a gay fellow department in a high school. Bob and Bob came out at least 30 years ago. They have been a monogamous couple for at least 40 years. He is one of the few department heads who worked to have two heterosexual teachers fired for having intimate relations with girls in the school. In this large city, the normal action would be to transfer the teacher and give the problem to another department head and principle.
Most adults pose no problems for children, at least in an intimate manner.
Robert SiskAugust 19, 2015
Either the chart was made up wrongly or the math in the article needs to be checked.
Phyllis NicollAugust 19, 2015
Thankfully the LDS Church is not governed by polls.
Jeff DrakeAugust 19, 2015
I don’t live in Utah, but I want the Church to get out of scouting, too, for three reasons:
First, and least of all, the change in policy. This is extremely minor, though.
Second, and much more importantly, the method by which the policy was changed. BSA deliberately held the vote on the policy change when Church leaders were unavailable to participate. Even when the Church contacted BSA and asked them to delay the vote so all board members could participate, BSA refused. If that’s how BSA feels about the Church, it doesn’t deserve our support.
Third, and probably most importantly, the amount of money the Church spends on scouting. Look at any ward budget—and those of ward members—and you’ll find thousands of dollars per year going toward scouting. Multiply that by thousands of wards and you’ve got millions of dollars. The Church could put together a pretty dynamite Young Men’s program with that kind of money, and I think it should stop wasting money on badges and use that money to improve the activities those badges represent.
Of course, all this being said, if the prophets prayerfully determine that the Church should continue to participate in BSA, I’ll support and sustain them. But from my admittedly limited point of view, I can’t see much benefit therefrom.
BarbaraAugust 19, 2015
I realize this is a complex topic and there is no perfect answer or easy solution. Having talked to some LDS friends in Utah I get a sense of apathy and even opposition toward the Scouting program. Speaking as a "very active" Mormon living elsewhere it is important to remember that even given it's faults, shortcomings and changes, Scouting is generally still very well respected around the US. The fact that our oldest son has his Eagle Scout has given him ubiquitous respect and instant credibility, as well as the ability to apply for jobs and top-tier schools that without that singular achievement would not be within his realm of possibility. He recently worked on a Habitat for Humanity project with some high powered University recruiters and was showered with praise and "would you consider coming to our school," literally before they even knew his name or anything else - just for being introduced as an Eagle Scout. He has spent time with our local city leadership, as well as one on one time with our US Senator and Congressman, just because he is an Eagle Scout.
If as a church we leave the BSA, we can form our own youth activity program, but we lose that instantly established and recognizable national connection. How do you adequately explain in a 250 word college application essay "I earned the highest award in the Duty to God program" outside of Utah - an important accomplishment? hopefully yes. Instantly recognizable and respected? Well, I guess it would take longer to explain, and the impact is going to take awhile to gain footing--not in this generation anyway.
I hope that as a decision is made regarding a relationship with BSA that The Church's leadership will seriously consider more than just the impact on the very active members in Utah, and more than just a one-size-fits-all global solution. I've observed that The Church is careful and measured in these big decisions and trust that ultimately the right thing will happen.
We have loved our boys' Scouting experience. It has opened some important doors of opportunity, given them a broad range of experience beyond the cultural hall and we are grateful that our young men could participate, come what may for the future.
Comments | Return to Story
Ruth PackerAugust 24, 2015
I have two sons who are Eagle Scouts. Then I worked as an Administrative Assistant in the Boy Scout Office. I saw enough to convince me then that the Church has a much better program. I really liked the article I recently read that stated we are a world wide Church. I feel our time and finances can be better used within the framework of the Church.
AnnaAugust 24, 2015
I think we should take a stand along with others. The Philmont Training center and Scout Ranch alone are worth fighting for. Many LDS youth work and go on treks there every summer. (3 sons and 3 daughters have worked there) The minority shouldn't just take over while the majority backs off. Being whimpy is not the American way. This is a great opportunity to lead out and save a wonderful institution from being dragged down by out of tune Scout leaders who will soon be gone anyway. Fight for future generations of young men, not just LDS young men. The Scouting program takes the place of Church for many young men in the country and is a fantastic way to bring young men to God. Read the book Trails to testimony by Brad Harris. Anything to get kids outside and in a special place like Philmont should be a top priority. Our influence is crucial to the survival of the entire scouting movement. Scouting is a good thing. When members don't like it, it is because it isn't being carried out the correct way way with enough filled leadership positions, with those who love it. If I had any say, I would take the singles wards away and make strong troops in the home wards with the returned missionaries who are planning the next party. Mom of 10 who sees the value of Scouting as a missionary prep and bringing our own and others to higher standards of self reliance and love of God and Country. We need more and better, not less.
michaelAugust 23, 2015
I am an Eagle scout and so is my son. I have been involved in scouting for 40 years. My daughter joined a coed Venture team, I am a Varsity Coach, I also am in charge of the Varsity Mountain Man Rendezvous for our district. So you can see scouting is in my blood. I am very disappointed in the BSA and what they chose to do, by not delaying the vote so the church had a say in it. I believe it is time to get out of Babylon and take a stand. Let us go our own way and they can go theirs
AnnaleeAugust 20, 2015
There is the National BSA way and the LDS BSA way. We have been doing it the LDS BSA way for years.
R G KingAugust 19, 2015
If the Boy Scouts go back to being Trekkers and Blazers and do it in YM as before the church joined with the scouts to link to their already organized stuff for economical and ease reasons, it makes sense t return to the past when new needs come along at same time as old answers no longer apply? To give up the scouts will be nice if the competitiveness is done away with and cooperative and team effort take their place. One step closer to being City of Enoch material. new World, new demographics, new mission IMO.
vickieAugust 19, 2015
for some reason as long as the boy scouts allow us to do our own thing...we should stick with the boy scouts....up and until they say that boy scouts have to use those we do not want to use as leaders...then we make a change..I raised 4 sons who all made eagle scout. boy scouts is such an important organization for young boys who grow up to be men....it was for my boys....I have to say that there are more people against all of this the leaders being gay....so why I wonder is this happening....
ajAugust 19, 2015
High Five to Bob! Love it! I was fortunate to grow up in a ward that kept things more equal. The YW went river rafting, skiing (water and snow) and shooting with the boys. I just don't get why that doesn't seem to happen (at least not where I am).
KurtAugust 19, 2015
I too am confident our leaders will make the right decision. Let me add three other thoughts: 1. I believe any re-evaluation will consider issues likely to arise should the Church continue to maintain its current BSA relationship. For example, are the words “and morally straight” likely to remain in the Scout Law? And might merit badge requirement changes and new badges all be suitable for Latter-day Saint boys? At this time, I am especially grateful our Church is led by seers. 2. The Church is far more global than the Boy Scout organization. Even if the BSA had not made this policy change, there would be sufficient reason to re-evaluate our relationship to the Boy Scouts as the activity arm of the Aaronic Priesthood. In the 1940s, our Sunday School nursery manual was published by a mainline Protestant church. But long ago it was determined that we should replace them with our own nursery manuals. It might be time to stop outsourcing the activity arm of the Aaronic Priesthood to the Boy Scouts and to bring it in-house.. 3. Should the decision be made to separate, that does not have to be 100% and immediate. A transition period could be a blessing to our young men who would like to finish their Eagle requirements without first having to transition to a new troop. Whatever the future brings, I hope Church members will feel great appreciation for the positive contribution Scouting has made in the lives of so many of our young men, and for the inestimable contribution of LDS Scout Leaders over almost 100 years.
ajAugust 19, 2015
Amen to what Jeff said and I think the separation is long overdue! Barbara - Although your son's experience is commendable, it's hardly the norm.
Bob E. McMillanAugust 19, 2015
In my incoming year as a Bishop, the young men went on a high adventure that cost thousands of dollars and depleted the coffers. So the next year, I told them they couldn't go anywhere, and the girls would get to spend the annual budget. The YW ended up taking a simple and ecomical trip to a church history site, and slept on the floor of a leader's relative. Upon reflection I realized two things, first, you don't need to break the bank to have a fulfilling spiritual journey. Second, since our YW leaders never got to go on high adventures when they were young, the had no idea how to make one happen. I should have had the YM leaders organize a trip for them. At any rate, we have generations of discrimination against our YW organizations to repent of. Let's get started.
DavidDAugust 19, 2015
“It is impossible to measure the great good that has come from Scouting during the last century. Skills have been learned, values have been established, good deeds have been done, and lives have been enriched. Scouting skills have also saved lives.” “Scouting brings out the best in each of us. You’ve learned much from Scouting. Live what you’ve learned and will continue to learn. Help others to hike the trails, to keep steadfast in the paths of truth, of honor, of duty, that all of you can soar together on eagles’ wings. You are part of a mighty army of youth, even a royal army, and every organization, to be successful, has an honored tradition to uphold. May you uphold Scouting’s tradition, for it can be as a lighthouse beacon in the world of stormy seas, it can be a motivation to prepare for your role in life, it can be a yardstick against which you measure your accomplishments.” Thomas S. Monson Member – National Executive Board of the Boy Scouts of America for over 40 years Celebrating the 100th anniversary of Scouting in the U.S. in 2010
DavidDAugust 19, 2015
I would be interested in knowing what the anti-Boy Scout percentage would be of Utah Mormons who are Eagle Scouts or who have sons or fathers or brothers who are Eagle Scouts. My guess -- far, far lower.
DonAugust 19, 2015
As a former District Chairman, HC rep to the district, and 65 year veteran of scouting, I love the program. I would make no effort to influence the brethren, let the Lord be their guides. I have have no more fear of the decision by BSA to open its doors to gay leaders than I did when BSA accepted female Cub Masters. Of course my thinking has been influenced by a gay fellow department in a high school. Bob and Bob came out at least 30 years ago. They have been a monogamous couple for at least 40 years. He is one of the few department heads who worked to have two heterosexual teachers fired for having intimate relations with girls in the school. In this large city, the normal action would be to transfer the teacher and give the problem to another department head and principle. Most adults pose no problems for children, at least in an intimate manner.
Robert SiskAugust 19, 2015
Either the chart was made up wrongly or the math in the article needs to be checked.
Phyllis NicollAugust 19, 2015
Thankfully the LDS Church is not governed by polls.
Jeff DrakeAugust 19, 2015
I don’t live in Utah, but I want the Church to get out of scouting, too, for three reasons: First, and least of all, the change in policy. This is extremely minor, though. Second, and much more importantly, the method by which the policy was changed. BSA deliberately held the vote on the policy change when Church leaders were unavailable to participate. Even when the Church contacted BSA and asked them to delay the vote so all board members could participate, BSA refused. If that’s how BSA feels about the Church, it doesn’t deserve our support. Third, and probably most importantly, the amount of money the Church spends on scouting. Look at any ward budget—and those of ward members—and you’ll find thousands of dollars per year going toward scouting. Multiply that by thousands of wards and you’ve got millions of dollars. The Church could put together a pretty dynamite Young Men’s program with that kind of money, and I think it should stop wasting money on badges and use that money to improve the activities those badges represent. Of course, all this being said, if the prophets prayerfully determine that the Church should continue to participate in BSA, I’ll support and sustain them. But from my admittedly limited point of view, I can’t see much benefit therefrom.
BarbaraAugust 19, 2015
I realize this is a complex topic and there is no perfect answer or easy solution. Having talked to some LDS friends in Utah I get a sense of apathy and even opposition toward the Scouting program. Speaking as a "very active" Mormon living elsewhere it is important to remember that even given it's faults, shortcomings and changes, Scouting is generally still very well respected around the US. The fact that our oldest son has his Eagle Scout has given him ubiquitous respect and instant credibility, as well as the ability to apply for jobs and top-tier schools that without that singular achievement would not be within his realm of possibility. He recently worked on a Habitat for Humanity project with some high powered University recruiters and was showered with praise and "would you consider coming to our school," literally before they even knew his name or anything else - just for being introduced as an Eagle Scout. He has spent time with our local city leadership, as well as one on one time with our US Senator and Congressman, just because he is an Eagle Scout. If as a church we leave the BSA, we can form our own youth activity program, but we lose that instantly established and recognizable national connection. How do you adequately explain in a 250 word college application essay "I earned the highest award in the Duty to God program" outside of Utah - an important accomplishment? hopefully yes. Instantly recognizable and respected? Well, I guess it would take longer to explain, and the impact is going to take awhile to gain footing--not in this generation anyway. I hope that as a decision is made regarding a relationship with BSA that The Church's leadership will seriously consider more than just the impact on the very active members in Utah, and more than just a one-size-fits-all global solution. I've observed that The Church is careful and measured in these big decisions and trust that ultimately the right thing will happen. We have loved our boys' Scouting experience. It has opened some important doors of opportunity, given them a broad range of experience beyond the cultural hall and we are grateful that our young men could participate, come what may for the future.
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