If being a scout leader you have to be morally clean and adhere to the law of chastity, what is the problem with a man who experiences SSA being in a leadership position? If active in the church and adhering to the covenants he has made, why does his sexual orientation make him less worthy? less able? and more likely to molest a child? Some of the comments on here have been almost on the verge of hysterical. As LDS, we invite ALL to come unto Christ. Why does having SSA make anyone less worthy than being straight? In fact, considering the immense faith these active LDS men demonstrate, we could learn a lot from them as can our youth. My daughters EFY councilor experiences SSA and was the most wonderful guy you could meet. My husband also experiences SSA. we have 5 children and he has served diligently as YMs president on and off for years and has been an asset to our ward and the young men in whom he has served so well. He has served on the bishopric, ward mission leader, HPGL, and various other callings. How dare we judge another when we know nothing about them other than their sexual orientation, actually, how dare we judge another, period! I assume those of you who have issues with righteous, covenant keeping "gay" people are perfect? no, thought not.
kateMay 27, 2015
This is a misleading headline. The president of BSA did not CALL FOR an end to the ban on BSA gay leadership. He said it was inevitable, but he did not call for it. He is right. It is inevitable. So now the leadership of the Church will decide how we deal with that--one of many decisions we as the Lord's Church will have to deal with in the coming months and years. Hold on people, it's going to be a bumpy ride.
sueMay 27, 2015
Lord Baden Powell was no homo-sexual. I have an early Boy Scout Manual from 1946, that is somewhat of a transition from the British Manual. It emphsizes the duties of Knighthood, has the Ten Commandments in it, has the Mayflower Compact, and part of the Declaration of Independence.What was required of scouts, at that time, was much more difficult than now.
When these people are in our church, they must not follow their urgings, but outside of the church they will. In Canada, the marital law is now gender neutral, and Canada is run by this community. I watched a film of a Kindergarten teacher, who is a Lesbian, turning these children to be advocates of their lifestyle. It ended with- "we will get all of you." I think this man's statement is very misleading- so we have to be politically correct these days? Why? The Scouts are to stand up for the greatest qualities of manhood. This will degrade the entire organization. Pres. Packard, several years ago, said we were already worse than Sodom and Gomorrah. I am totally opposed to the idea. My husband was in scouts his entire life and was a great leader. I wish you could each read this 1946 manual. It is uplifting and promotes the highest ideals possible, which includes doing one good deed daily.
Brian BeningtonMay 26, 2015
To address a few issues: gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender, and intersex (LGBTI) persons are as much a part of creation as heterosexual persons -- and they, usually, are the product of heterosexual pairings. That they ARE "different," or come to realize that they are "different" -- LGBTI -- does not make them "tainted," as a respondent above has accused. The science behind this is very clear -- they are every bit as much the result of genetic variability as their "straight" siblings.
Given this, we should not be surprised that there are LGBTI in the Church. They deserve our support because they are in the unenviable position of being told that -- rather than date, romance and marry the person they love -- they should remain single and celibate for life. (And no, the standard is not the same here, for single, adult, "straight" persons may marry someone they love -- at any age!). Celibacy is not chastity, and gays and lesbians are every bit as capable of keeping to the "no-sex-before-marriage" and "faithfulness-after-marriage" code as their "straight" counterparts -- if ONLY they have the opportunity for civil marriage, which is now becoming the reality in many places.
It's insulting that so many people think that gays cannot function in positions of leadership without molesting their charges. In fact, studies show that it is more generally heterosexuals who are pedophiles, with some of those "heterosexuals" actually being closeted gays whose deep self-loathing is at the heart of their sickness. The world, and the Church, would be far better were people allowed to live honestly and authentically.
Lastly, there IS some slight evidence that Lord Baden Powell was very possibly a closeted, but chaste, homosexual. Based on the research for his book, "“The Boy-Man,” on the life of Sir. Baden Powell, author Tim Jeal said: "...we are perfectly entitled to question today whether the attempt to deny the undoubted link between love and sexual desire could have succeeded as well as it did without repression, sublimation, and in many instances massive doses of self-deception.” He added that “available evidence points inexorably to the conclusion that Baden-Powell was a repressed homosexual.”
So here we have the incredible Boy Scouts movement begun by a man who was more than likely "same-sex attracted." I'm sure he was every bit as "chaste" as Mitch Mayne, the celibate gay man who served as a counselor in a California Bishopric. I'm sure Mitch would've been just as capable of serving as a Boy Scout leader.
DavidDMay 26, 2015
Allen, I'm sure you realize that even if the BSA changes its policy, scoutmasters of LDS wards would still be selected by the bishops in those wards. It would be an elimination of an absolute ban on gay scoutmasters, not an installation of a quota or a requirement that gay scoutmasters be selected. Bishops would make their selections as "callings" like they always do, with prayer and inspiration, but with a particular concern for assuring that they are not choosing potential pedophiles, regardless of sexual orientation. Frankly, if a bishop thought it was wrong to have a gay scoutmaster for his ward's troop, he simply wouldn't call one. I don't see how the world is ending over this. I do see it as an opportunity to follow the emerging counsel of the Brethren to show more love and acceptance to those who don't share our doctrinal beliefs.
AllenMay 25, 2015
I can't see anything good coming from this. The first time a homosexual scout leader molests one of the boys, the resulting lawsuits will destroy the unit, the Council and the sponsoring organization. There have been Young Men leaders before who molested boys and the result in some cases was very destructive to the Ward involved. The Church will probably have to withdraw from Scouting.
A Happy HubbyMay 25, 2015
Tom BarrattMay - Thanks for the one more rational comment on this blog. I do think it is the truth that this issue is very divisive within the church. I see those on the one hand that are honestly striving to do what is right, and then I see others such as those that have gay kids. Some of those that were the most staunch anti-gay are now very different. I don't see this getting any less of an issue.
DavidDMay 25, 2015
Other than Deg, I think you all might do well to go back over the conference talks in the past few conferences in which our leaders have been urging us to be more kind and accepting of those who don't share our values and beliefs.
Lisa HansenMay 25, 2015
I believe we will keep more of our LGBT children in the church when we allow faithful LGBT leaders to contribute in our wards.
It is difficult for me to know when social or political pressure is God's way of inviting me to look at old issues in new ways. I think God does ask us to look at how our policies affect people. How we treat re-marriage after divorce is a case in point. The scriptures are very clear on that and yet we allow divorced/remarried folks to get temple recommends so long as they are otherwise faithful. We've reviewed our policies and determined that other kinds of faithfulness matter more.
Dismissing possibilities for inclusion and reconciliation of faithful people seems Pharasaic to me.
WI-MemberMay 25, 2015
Why can't the church withdraw from its relationship from the BSA and use the Duty to God program? It could follow the pattern of the current YW program. All you need is a small manual, a shoestring budget, and a few ribbons for progress recognition. There is little to no training involved, no large committee required to support it, and only requires a handshake from the bishop at the pulpit at the completion of the program.
Carol KendallMay 25, 2015
Last time there was controversy over the BSA policy, they reaffirmed their original policy; they just did it so subtly that people didn't realize what they were saying.
The policy is and was that sexually active scouts are disqualified on the basis of not being "morally straight;" it is irrelevant what form that sexual activity takes.
When it comes to leaders, the bar of necessity MUST be higher.
I have to wonder how Gates got into the top ranks of leadership in BSA when his philosophies are so contrary to those of the BSA. He probably is there for the sole purpose of eliminating this policy, and thus doing away with one more bastion of morality and faith in our nation.
Stephen ClaytonMay 25, 2015
It may be that Gates was elected to head the BSA because of his progressive history as Secretary of Defense. He not only gutted the military severely undermining US strength, but also was behind the "don't tell, don't lie" policy allowing homosexuals to freely join any of the branches of the military. The move now to allow homosexual leaders to freely join the ranks within the BSA again shows his immoral agenda. I hope that the LDS Church pulls out of the BSA and establishes a truly moral program for LDS youth.
Brian CarterMay 23, 2015
We have Duty to God. It's up and working. I'm guessing the Lord knew this day was coming and prepared this program to fully replace BSA.
MartiMay 23, 2015
The Church has Gay men members who are worthy Priesthood holders who keep their covenants. The Church has also stated their support for the the rights of Gays for equal housing and employment. Because someone is Gay does not mean they are corrupt or pediphiles or immoral.
This is a tough one to call... I will put my trust in our Church leaders to make the right decision .
Jim KinseyMay 23, 2015
This is not an issue that we should be politically correct on. Not just LDS but every Christian in the world should know and understand what is expected of him. "I know thy works,that thou are neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth." Rev 3:15-16. The subject of homosexuality is one that divides, but should not. My own family has been tainted with this evil. We cannot be politically correct on this. The law is plain and firm: If a man also lie with mankind as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death;their blood shall be upon them. Lev 20:13. There is no double standard here, it applies to both men and women. It is my opinion that Gates is trying to garner the dues paid by members of the BSA from everyone no matter what the cost. "Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal : For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also." Matt 6:19-21. "No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and Mammon." Matt 6:24 We are told that in the last days even the very elect can and will be sifted and harvested by the adversary. "And there are many that lie in wait to destroy thee from off the face of the earth; and for this cause, that thy days may be prolonged have I given unto thee these commandments." D&C 5:33 "Fear not to do good, my sons, for whatsoever ye sow, that shall ye also reap; therefore, if ye sow good ye shall also reap good for your reward" D&C 6:33 And it follows that the opposite is also true. "What I the Lord have spoken I have spoken and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same." D&C 1:38. I would hope that as followers of Christ we can all stand firm for what is true, let the consequence follow. Let us stand in holy places, our homes, our churches and our temples.
DonMay 22, 2015
It was interesting that Mr. Gates stated that "Our oath calls upon us to do our duty to God and our country" while calling for an end to the ban on gay leaders. My thought was that an active campaign against that oath will surely follow the push for gay Scout leadership. Many bakers and others who want to do their duty to God have faced loss of their businesses and stiff fines for doing so.
Stephen ClaytonMay 22, 2015
I think that if BSA allows gay scoutmasters, the LDS Church will pull out and rightfully so. We probably could do better without the BSA anyway.
Lois KullbergMay 22, 2015
As a grandparent of 12 Eagle Scouts (and a potential for three more) who are great examples of fine manhood, I would hate to see the scouting program changed to lower its standards. If that happened I would hope that churches would form new programs for their young men and withdraw financial support from the Boy Scouts of America.
Robert StarlingMay 22, 2015
For 100 years the LDS Church has partnered with the BSA in teaching young men to be "morally straight". As an Eagle Scout, a Silver Beaver, and a High Priest, I cannot see any future for that partnership unless the BSA president and other leadership find the intestinal fortitude to fight the forces that are pressuring the BSA to adhere to the LGBT agenda.
In our meetings we sing: "Shall the Youth of Zion falter in defending truth and right?" We might ask the same of our BSA partners. We may live IN a different world than our parents and grandparents, but as Christians we have the responsibility to not be OF that world.
I've spent a number of years training adult Scout leaders, and I'm fully aware of the importance those leaders have as role models for our youth. That includes living according to the Scout Oath to be "morally straight".
I would be terribly disappointed to see the LDS and other churches forced to withdraw their support from the BSA in the USA and perhaps join other national Scout organizations that adhere to the original Scout Oath and Law. But anyone who believes in the prophet-inspired Proclamation on the Family cannot support a Scout organization that has homosexuals as leaders for our boys.
As the sponsor of the largest number of Scout units in the BSA, the LDS church is in a position to provide leadership to the national organization that seems to be loosing its way. (or loosing its nerve?) I sincerely hope that we can provide the "moral compass" to put the BSA back on the right trail.
"Shall the Youth of Zion (and their leaders) falter? - NO. True to the faith that our fathers have cherished, true to the truth for which martyrs have perished, to God's command, soul heart and hand, faithful and true we will ever stand!"
Carl W RizorMay 22, 2015
Gates comments are nothing new. As a former member of the Obama Yo Mama administration, he knows how they operate. Using all departments of the federal corrupt government to FORCE anything they want.
I do not speak for the Church, only the First Presidency does under the direction of Jesus Christ, something that secularism has NO love for.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has already spoken.
Jim KinseyMay 22, 2015
This seems to be a prime example of fearing the lack of earthly acceptance of what man wants as opposed to what the Lord wants. I have been a scout leader, a scout and have two sons who are Eagle Scouts. I believe the program was inspired and has done much to better the lives of its participants. The thing is that this is not what Lord Baden Powell had in mind. Homosexuality is one of the main factors in the dissolution of the family. God's plan is God's plan and will not change. In the beginning it was Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. One of our first parents greatest responsibilities was to multiply and replenish the earth and that mandate is still in effect. You cannot fulfill that commandment with two partners of the same sex. Several of the general authorities have commented that the greatest sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was homosexuality. Of course our leaders have remained politically correct and at this time have not made a definitive stand. But the time is coming when this will end. We must stand up for that which is right and not fear the retribution of men. There will come a time when we as Latter Day Saints will have to stand up and be counted and defend the Church and doctrines of Christ. Better now than later. Better to be counted on the Lord's side and not the adversary's. Better to follow the example of Joshua, "As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord."
JonMay 22, 2015
BSA is in a difficult situation. They are facing a rebellion by some councils that are openly defying the BSA position by not allowing sexual orientation to be a factor in who qualifies for leadership. Dr. Gates also thinks it likely a court is going to order them to change their policy, and they think they can reach are more reasonable result by acting before the courts. Dr. Gates made this comment: "MOREOVER, DOZENS OF STATES - FROM NEW YORK TO UTAH – ARE PASSING LAWS THAT PROTECT EMPLOYMENT RIGHTS ON THE BASIS OF SEXUAL ORIENTATION." I cannot help but think he was pointing out that Utah, which has a huge number of scouts, has compromised on the sexual orientation issue by passing a law protecting sexual orientation discrimination in employment and housing. While the law Utah passed expressly excluded BSA from being defined as an "employer" for purposes of employment discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, you must recognize that BSA must be left struggling with the impression that Utah compromised, and so must we.
Personally, I am not comfortable with the idea of sending my boy to scout camp knowing openly gay leaders may be the role models there for my boy. I hope BSA does not change its current position, and I worry that BSA is indicating they will not take action against councils who break from the national BSA position.
Tom BarrattMay 22, 2015
The issue of gay rights will continue to divide the LDS Church. A house divided against itself cannot stand. The problem is that whether we are LDS or not we have not embraced Zion. If we were Zion all would know and understand the mind and will of God. There needs be no handbook in Zion for all would know God. It matters not which side of the issue of gay rights we stand on but that there is division among all people over this. The problem is we are not Zion and that is why we are having this debate. What is the answer? The solution will only be when we have achieved Zion.
AlanMay 22, 2015
Then it is about time that the Church ends its association with the Boy Scouts. They are knuckling under to pressure from rather than standing up for the principles of their own oath and law. Gays are not "morally straight." They are not "obedient" to the laws of God or the laws of nature. They have no place in the Boy Scout program. Once they are allowed in, the church no longer has a place in the program.
DegMay 22, 2015
It would seem that the spirit of God is stirring the heats of men to be more inclusive, loving, and accepting of all of God's children which include LGBT community.
If they are truly born with this sexual orientation, and it seems that we have ample reason to believe this to be the case, as indicated in https://mormonsandgays.org/, then no amount of shaming, judging, will correct this course.
It may even be possible that we are wrong on this topic, as we were about the Race & the priesthood. We need to let the Holy Ghost guide us with regards to this issue.
It is difficult to accept when we don't know anyone firsthand that has these issues, but I've only heard of third party families that struggle because of this... and our culture is unfair to them.
I no longer know what's right and wrong on this issue, but maybe we're wrong.
Mário FonsecaMay 22, 2015
Well... I believe this is the first time I read a sentence like this from a leader... "We must deal with the world as it is, not as we might wish it to be."??
What kind of leader is Mr. Robert M. Gates? This contradicts the whole philosophy of the boy scouts of the whole world! I believe that Lord Baden Powell is struggling in his coffin right now...
It should be exactly the opposite: "We must lead the world to where we wish it to be!"
If it his as mr. Gates says, should we start distributing AK47's to our children? Because the world is getting a place of war with all these extremists in middle east, and attacks around the globe...
This is the kind of leadership that sends the people to walk circles in the desert.
Choose a straight path! Determine values and "fight" for them! Respect others but dont walk in circles!
CharlieBrown2292May 22, 2015
The trend among many Churches other than ours is indeed to go along with the secular world in doing away with the definition of sex being only appropriate within the bonds of marriage between a man and a woman. It is therefore difficult to see how the Church would not eventually be forced to sever ties with the BSA organization and start running its own scouting program.
Comments | Return to Story
anneJune 2, 2015
If being a scout leader you have to be morally clean and adhere to the law of chastity, what is the problem with a man who experiences SSA being in a leadership position? If active in the church and adhering to the covenants he has made, why does his sexual orientation make him less worthy? less able? and more likely to molest a child? Some of the comments on here have been almost on the verge of hysterical. As LDS, we invite ALL to come unto Christ. Why does having SSA make anyone less worthy than being straight? In fact, considering the immense faith these active LDS men demonstrate, we could learn a lot from them as can our youth. My daughters EFY councilor experiences SSA and was the most wonderful guy you could meet. My husband also experiences SSA. we have 5 children and he has served diligently as YMs president on and off for years and has been an asset to our ward and the young men in whom he has served so well. He has served on the bishopric, ward mission leader, HPGL, and various other callings. How dare we judge another when we know nothing about them other than their sexual orientation, actually, how dare we judge another, period! I assume those of you who have issues with righteous, covenant keeping "gay" people are perfect? no, thought not.
kateMay 27, 2015
This is a misleading headline. The president of BSA did not CALL FOR an end to the ban on BSA gay leadership. He said it was inevitable, but he did not call for it. He is right. It is inevitable. So now the leadership of the Church will decide how we deal with that--one of many decisions we as the Lord's Church will have to deal with in the coming months and years. Hold on people, it's going to be a bumpy ride.
sueMay 27, 2015
Lord Baden Powell was no homo-sexual. I have an early Boy Scout Manual from 1946, that is somewhat of a transition from the British Manual. It emphsizes the duties of Knighthood, has the Ten Commandments in it, has the Mayflower Compact, and part of the Declaration of Independence.What was required of scouts, at that time, was much more difficult than now. When these people are in our church, they must not follow their urgings, but outside of the church they will. In Canada, the marital law is now gender neutral, and Canada is run by this community. I watched a film of a Kindergarten teacher, who is a Lesbian, turning these children to be advocates of their lifestyle. It ended with- "we will get all of you." I think this man's statement is very misleading- so we have to be politically correct these days? Why? The Scouts are to stand up for the greatest qualities of manhood. This will degrade the entire organization. Pres. Packard, several years ago, said we were already worse than Sodom and Gomorrah. I am totally opposed to the idea. My husband was in scouts his entire life and was a great leader. I wish you could each read this 1946 manual. It is uplifting and promotes the highest ideals possible, which includes doing one good deed daily.
Brian BeningtonMay 26, 2015
To address a few issues: gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender, and intersex (LGBTI) persons are as much a part of creation as heterosexual persons -- and they, usually, are the product of heterosexual pairings. That they ARE "different," or come to realize that they are "different" -- LGBTI -- does not make them "tainted," as a respondent above has accused. The science behind this is very clear -- they are every bit as much the result of genetic variability as their "straight" siblings. Given this, we should not be surprised that there are LGBTI in the Church. They deserve our support because they are in the unenviable position of being told that -- rather than date, romance and marry the person they love -- they should remain single and celibate for life. (And no, the standard is not the same here, for single, adult, "straight" persons may marry someone they love -- at any age!). Celibacy is not chastity, and gays and lesbians are every bit as capable of keeping to the "no-sex-before-marriage" and "faithfulness-after-marriage" code as their "straight" counterparts -- if ONLY they have the opportunity for civil marriage, which is now becoming the reality in many places. It's insulting that so many people think that gays cannot function in positions of leadership without molesting their charges. In fact, studies show that it is more generally heterosexuals who are pedophiles, with some of those "heterosexuals" actually being closeted gays whose deep self-loathing is at the heart of their sickness. The world, and the Church, would be far better were people allowed to live honestly and authentically. Lastly, there IS some slight evidence that Lord Baden Powell was very possibly a closeted, but chaste, homosexual. Based on the research for his book, "“The Boy-Man,” on the life of Sir. Baden Powell, author Tim Jeal said: "...we are perfectly entitled to question today whether the attempt to deny the undoubted link between love and sexual desire could have succeeded as well as it did without repression, sublimation, and in many instances massive doses of self-deception.” He added that “available evidence points inexorably to the conclusion that Baden-Powell was a repressed homosexual.” So here we have the incredible Boy Scouts movement begun by a man who was more than likely "same-sex attracted." I'm sure he was every bit as "chaste" as Mitch Mayne, the celibate gay man who served as a counselor in a California Bishopric. I'm sure Mitch would've been just as capable of serving as a Boy Scout leader.
DavidDMay 26, 2015
Allen, I'm sure you realize that even if the BSA changes its policy, scoutmasters of LDS wards would still be selected by the bishops in those wards. It would be an elimination of an absolute ban on gay scoutmasters, not an installation of a quota or a requirement that gay scoutmasters be selected. Bishops would make their selections as "callings" like they always do, with prayer and inspiration, but with a particular concern for assuring that they are not choosing potential pedophiles, regardless of sexual orientation. Frankly, if a bishop thought it was wrong to have a gay scoutmaster for his ward's troop, he simply wouldn't call one. I don't see how the world is ending over this. I do see it as an opportunity to follow the emerging counsel of the Brethren to show more love and acceptance to those who don't share our doctrinal beliefs.
AllenMay 25, 2015
I can't see anything good coming from this. The first time a homosexual scout leader molests one of the boys, the resulting lawsuits will destroy the unit, the Council and the sponsoring organization. There have been Young Men leaders before who molested boys and the result in some cases was very destructive to the Ward involved. The Church will probably have to withdraw from Scouting.
A Happy HubbyMay 25, 2015
Tom BarrattMay - Thanks for the one more rational comment on this blog. I do think it is the truth that this issue is very divisive within the church. I see those on the one hand that are honestly striving to do what is right, and then I see others such as those that have gay kids. Some of those that were the most staunch anti-gay are now very different. I don't see this getting any less of an issue.
DavidDMay 25, 2015
Other than Deg, I think you all might do well to go back over the conference talks in the past few conferences in which our leaders have been urging us to be more kind and accepting of those who don't share our values and beliefs.
Lisa HansenMay 25, 2015
I believe we will keep more of our LGBT children in the church when we allow faithful LGBT leaders to contribute in our wards. It is difficult for me to know when social or political pressure is God's way of inviting me to look at old issues in new ways. I think God does ask us to look at how our policies affect people. How we treat re-marriage after divorce is a case in point. The scriptures are very clear on that and yet we allow divorced/remarried folks to get temple recommends so long as they are otherwise faithful. We've reviewed our policies and determined that other kinds of faithfulness matter more. Dismissing possibilities for inclusion and reconciliation of faithful people seems Pharasaic to me.
WI-MemberMay 25, 2015
Why can't the church withdraw from its relationship from the BSA and use the Duty to God program? It could follow the pattern of the current YW program. All you need is a small manual, a shoestring budget, and a few ribbons for progress recognition. There is little to no training involved, no large committee required to support it, and only requires a handshake from the bishop at the pulpit at the completion of the program.
Carol KendallMay 25, 2015
Last time there was controversy over the BSA policy, they reaffirmed their original policy; they just did it so subtly that people didn't realize what they were saying. The policy is and was that sexually active scouts are disqualified on the basis of not being "morally straight;" it is irrelevant what form that sexual activity takes. When it comes to leaders, the bar of necessity MUST be higher. I have to wonder how Gates got into the top ranks of leadership in BSA when his philosophies are so contrary to those of the BSA. He probably is there for the sole purpose of eliminating this policy, and thus doing away with one more bastion of morality and faith in our nation.
Stephen ClaytonMay 25, 2015
It may be that Gates was elected to head the BSA because of his progressive history as Secretary of Defense. He not only gutted the military severely undermining US strength, but also was behind the "don't tell, don't lie" policy allowing homosexuals to freely join any of the branches of the military. The move now to allow homosexual leaders to freely join the ranks within the BSA again shows his immoral agenda. I hope that the LDS Church pulls out of the BSA and establishes a truly moral program for LDS youth.
Brian CarterMay 23, 2015
We have Duty to God. It's up and working. I'm guessing the Lord knew this day was coming and prepared this program to fully replace BSA.
MartiMay 23, 2015
The Church has Gay men members who are worthy Priesthood holders who keep their covenants. The Church has also stated their support for the the rights of Gays for equal housing and employment. Because someone is Gay does not mean they are corrupt or pediphiles or immoral. This is a tough one to call... I will put my trust in our Church leaders to make the right decision .
Jim KinseyMay 23, 2015
This is not an issue that we should be politically correct on. Not just LDS but every Christian in the world should know and understand what is expected of him. "I know thy works,that thou are neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth." Rev 3:15-16. The subject of homosexuality is one that divides, but should not. My own family has been tainted with this evil. We cannot be politically correct on this. The law is plain and firm: If a man also lie with mankind as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death;their blood shall be upon them. Lev 20:13. There is no double standard here, it applies to both men and women. It is my opinion that Gates is trying to garner the dues paid by members of the BSA from everyone no matter what the cost. "Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal : For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also." Matt 6:19-21. "No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and Mammon." Matt 6:24 We are told that in the last days even the very elect can and will be sifted and harvested by the adversary. "And there are many that lie in wait to destroy thee from off the face of the earth; and for this cause, that thy days may be prolonged have I given unto thee these commandments." D&C 5:33 "Fear not to do good, my sons, for whatsoever ye sow, that shall ye also reap; therefore, if ye sow good ye shall also reap good for your reward" D&C 6:33 And it follows that the opposite is also true. "What I the Lord have spoken I have spoken and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same." D&C 1:38. I would hope that as followers of Christ we can all stand firm for what is true, let the consequence follow. Let us stand in holy places, our homes, our churches and our temples.
DonMay 22, 2015
It was interesting that Mr. Gates stated that "Our oath calls upon us to do our duty to God and our country" while calling for an end to the ban on gay leaders. My thought was that an active campaign against that oath will surely follow the push for gay Scout leadership. Many bakers and others who want to do their duty to God have faced loss of their businesses and stiff fines for doing so.
Stephen ClaytonMay 22, 2015
I think that if BSA allows gay scoutmasters, the LDS Church will pull out and rightfully so. We probably could do better without the BSA anyway.
Lois KullbergMay 22, 2015
As a grandparent of 12 Eagle Scouts (and a potential for three more) who are great examples of fine manhood, I would hate to see the scouting program changed to lower its standards. If that happened I would hope that churches would form new programs for their young men and withdraw financial support from the Boy Scouts of America.
Robert StarlingMay 22, 2015
For 100 years the LDS Church has partnered with the BSA in teaching young men to be "morally straight". As an Eagle Scout, a Silver Beaver, and a High Priest, I cannot see any future for that partnership unless the BSA president and other leadership find the intestinal fortitude to fight the forces that are pressuring the BSA to adhere to the LGBT agenda. In our meetings we sing: "Shall the Youth of Zion falter in defending truth and right?" We might ask the same of our BSA partners. We may live IN a different world than our parents and grandparents, but as Christians we have the responsibility to not be OF that world. I've spent a number of years training adult Scout leaders, and I'm fully aware of the importance those leaders have as role models for our youth. That includes living according to the Scout Oath to be "morally straight". I would be terribly disappointed to see the LDS and other churches forced to withdraw their support from the BSA in the USA and perhaps join other national Scout organizations that adhere to the original Scout Oath and Law. But anyone who believes in the prophet-inspired Proclamation on the Family cannot support a Scout organization that has homosexuals as leaders for our boys. As the sponsor of the largest number of Scout units in the BSA, the LDS church is in a position to provide leadership to the national organization that seems to be loosing its way. (or loosing its nerve?) I sincerely hope that we can provide the "moral compass" to put the BSA back on the right trail. "Shall the Youth of Zion (and their leaders) falter? - NO. True to the faith that our fathers have cherished, true to the truth for which martyrs have perished, to God's command, soul heart and hand, faithful and true we will ever stand!"
Carl W RizorMay 22, 2015
Gates comments are nothing new. As a former member of the Obama Yo Mama administration, he knows how they operate. Using all departments of the federal corrupt government to FORCE anything they want. I do not speak for the Church, only the First Presidency does under the direction of Jesus Christ, something that secularism has NO love for. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has already spoken.
Jim KinseyMay 22, 2015
This seems to be a prime example of fearing the lack of earthly acceptance of what man wants as opposed to what the Lord wants. I have been a scout leader, a scout and have two sons who are Eagle Scouts. I believe the program was inspired and has done much to better the lives of its participants. The thing is that this is not what Lord Baden Powell had in mind. Homosexuality is one of the main factors in the dissolution of the family. God's plan is God's plan and will not change. In the beginning it was Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. One of our first parents greatest responsibilities was to multiply and replenish the earth and that mandate is still in effect. You cannot fulfill that commandment with two partners of the same sex. Several of the general authorities have commented that the greatest sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was homosexuality. Of course our leaders have remained politically correct and at this time have not made a definitive stand. But the time is coming when this will end. We must stand up for that which is right and not fear the retribution of men. There will come a time when we as Latter Day Saints will have to stand up and be counted and defend the Church and doctrines of Christ. Better now than later. Better to be counted on the Lord's side and not the adversary's. Better to follow the example of Joshua, "As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord."
JonMay 22, 2015
BSA is in a difficult situation. They are facing a rebellion by some councils that are openly defying the BSA position by not allowing sexual orientation to be a factor in who qualifies for leadership. Dr. Gates also thinks it likely a court is going to order them to change their policy, and they think they can reach are more reasonable result by acting before the courts. Dr. Gates made this comment: "MOREOVER, DOZENS OF STATES - FROM NEW YORK TO UTAH – ARE PASSING LAWS THAT PROTECT EMPLOYMENT RIGHTS ON THE BASIS OF SEXUAL ORIENTATION." I cannot help but think he was pointing out that Utah, which has a huge number of scouts, has compromised on the sexual orientation issue by passing a law protecting sexual orientation discrimination in employment and housing. While the law Utah passed expressly excluded BSA from being defined as an "employer" for purposes of employment discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, you must recognize that BSA must be left struggling with the impression that Utah compromised, and so must we. Personally, I am not comfortable with the idea of sending my boy to scout camp knowing openly gay leaders may be the role models there for my boy. I hope BSA does not change its current position, and I worry that BSA is indicating they will not take action against councils who break from the national BSA position.
Tom BarrattMay 22, 2015
The issue of gay rights will continue to divide the LDS Church. A house divided against itself cannot stand. The problem is that whether we are LDS or not we have not embraced Zion. If we were Zion all would know and understand the mind and will of God. There needs be no handbook in Zion for all would know God. It matters not which side of the issue of gay rights we stand on but that there is division among all people over this. The problem is we are not Zion and that is why we are having this debate. What is the answer? The solution will only be when we have achieved Zion.
AlanMay 22, 2015
Then it is about time that the Church ends its association with the Boy Scouts. They are knuckling under to pressure from rather than standing up for the principles of their own oath and law. Gays are not "morally straight." They are not "obedient" to the laws of God or the laws of nature. They have no place in the Boy Scout program. Once they are allowed in, the church no longer has a place in the program.
DegMay 22, 2015
It would seem that the spirit of God is stirring the heats of men to be more inclusive, loving, and accepting of all of God's children which include LGBT community. If they are truly born with this sexual orientation, and it seems that we have ample reason to believe this to be the case, as indicated in https://mormonsandgays.org/, then no amount of shaming, judging, will correct this course. It may even be possible that we are wrong on this topic, as we were about the Race & the priesthood. We need to let the Holy Ghost guide us with regards to this issue. It is difficult to accept when we don't know anyone firsthand that has these issues, but I've only heard of third party families that struggle because of this... and our culture is unfair to them. I no longer know what's right and wrong on this issue, but maybe we're wrong.
Mário FonsecaMay 22, 2015
Well... I believe this is the first time I read a sentence like this from a leader... "We must deal with the world as it is, not as we might wish it to be."?? What kind of leader is Mr. Robert M. Gates? This contradicts the whole philosophy of the boy scouts of the whole world! I believe that Lord Baden Powell is struggling in his coffin right now... It should be exactly the opposite: "We must lead the world to where we wish it to be!" If it his as mr. Gates says, should we start distributing AK47's to our children? Because the world is getting a place of war with all these extremists in middle east, and attacks around the globe... This is the kind of leadership that sends the people to walk circles in the desert. Choose a straight path! Determine values and "fight" for them! Respect others but dont walk in circles!
CharlieBrown2292May 22, 2015
The trend among many Churches other than ours is indeed to go along with the secular world in doing away with the definition of sex being only appropriate within the bonds of marriage between a man and a woman. It is therefore difficult to see how the Church would not eventually be forced to sever ties with the BSA organization and start running its own scouting program.
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