This article sums it up well. It's vitally important for women to show initiative because nothing else communicates desire. There needs to be flexibility in terms of who asks who because people are not born the same. If it was to be that only men could do the pursuing, why do many of us men suffer from low self-esteem, discouragement, Rejection-Sensitive Dysphoria or any other thing that would legitimately hold us back? Shouldn't we be immune to that stuff? Any woman who says that only men should pursue is not considering the man's point of view (and yes, empathy is vitally important for any relationship to work). The fact that any woman-initiated relationship has resulted in marriage is proof that it can work.
If someone likes you they will ask you out and if they don't like you they won't ask you out. If they do like you but are not man/woman enough to pursue you then YOU DESERVE BETTER and someday something better that is meant specifically for you will come along! It really is that simple. So trust Heavenly Father, keep your covenants, and LISTEN TO THE SPIRIT and you will be guided on what to do for your specific situation. Please don't allow yourself to be guided by this article or any of the comments above.
It's laughable to suggest there is any "doctrine" about dating, except when it impinges on wider principles, considering that the Gospel has coexisted with arranged marriage. I likewise have yet to see any evidence (and have seen lots of contrary evidence) that being forward and extroverted in that social sphere is remotely correlated to righteousness and a willingness to lead in spiritual things.
And some of the statements below ("x only like y to ask them out if they already have a crush on them") could have the genders reversed and still be true.
I have to clarify point #1 that guys are "okay" with being asked out by a girl. In reality, they only want to be asked out by the girl they secretly have a crush on. If any other girl asks the guy out, she is labeled as "desperate" and "trying too hard" if she dares to make it known to a guy that she is interested in him. I am female and have been down this road too many times to count, so I stopped dating and am adopting a baby, instead. I literally had to refocus my life on something more positive than always being accused of "trying too hard" because I wanted to be married and expressed interest in a man whom I thought had potential.
Actually, it is church doctrine for the men to ask women out, not vice versa. According to President Hunter, priesthood bearers have the "obligation to take the lead in seeking eternal companionship," while women are counseled to fill their lives with meaningful and worthwhile activities.
As pointed out by another (wise) commenter, it is actually a priesthood holder's obligation/duty to ask girls out. That is the word of our prophet.
Now, that doesn't mean that they women can't ask them out, but it does, as mentioned that stake presidents teach, prepare men to have their wife lead. From my own experience, men who have to be asked out instead of asking aren't the type of person I want to be my husband.
As a man, I liked to be the first one to take initiative and ask the girl out first.
There are a few of these comments that I love. There is not any doctrine that I know of in the Church that says it is a priesthood holder's responsibility to ask girls/single women out on dates. In the For the Strength of Youth, it says, "Young men generally take the initiative in asking for and planning dates." It doesn't say that it is their duty. And that is for the Youth. My brother was lead on and it really hurt him. There are guys like me who don't want to date because we feel insignificant, or awkward. I think all young women should learn these tips, it will change their outlook. Everyone has a different story, why not learn it, instead of jumping to conclusions.
One super annoying problem is that most girls don't want to go on a date with anyone unless they like them already. (Isn't that the point of going on a date)
JD, You think the guy in the cover photo is a doofus or a dork? Dang! I thought he was really cute with a nice smile. (I've been married 33 years; I'm not looking for somebody, just voicing an opinion.)
Let's start calling adults "women" and "men" instead of "boys" and "girls" -- it changes things, especially the way unmarried individuals perceive themselves, others, and their relationships.
And let's stop depicting all unmarried, Mormon men as doofuses/dorks/infantilized manchildren who have no idea how to interact maturely with women -- like the guy in this story's cover pic.
I think it is nice if women ask guys on dates, BUT, they still need to prepare to be turned down. Perhaps men would be less likely to turn down a date request from a woman since it is almost unheard of, but I am not so sure. In my experience, I am probably turned down for dates anywhere from 70 to 90% of the time. At least so it seems. Yes, I am a guy.
"Self-deprecation is not attractive" no it’s not and according to what I have heard and read neither is not having close to or over a six figure income. Hence the reason I won’t ever try to date because I have both problems, I have no real confidence and am working poor. At least I know it and accept it. Women Complain (and for good reason) saying "date me not my uterus", I say "Date me not my bank account." But I also wish to remind people of 3 Nephi 11:29 it speaks volumes about the real core of our problems.
Instead of blaming each other for our differences we should be learning how to get along (in the Church) with the differences between men and women. And next I suppose I will start to belive in the Great Pumpkin
Joy, where in the scriptures or any actual legitimate prophetic counsel does it say that it is the priesthood responsibility to ask out women on a date? This is ridiculous and is a huge concern to me. I grew up with some of my leaders saying this, but where did it come from? Is it legitimate doctrine or cultural malarkey? Priesthood is about giving blessings, teaching others, conducting service, and administrating ordinances in the church. No where in any manual given to me has the priesthood been associated with, "Hey you are responsible for submitting yourself to a 21st century invention, all for the eternal salvation of womankind. Women need take no responsibility--men you must be active." Does that sound like something a church which advocates free agency and personal responsibility for salvation would say?
Also, how can you base a man's eternal potential on his ability to ask a woman out? I have troubles asking certain women out, and suddenly I'm going to be a terrible husband and father? That is quite the leap. And honestly, it's a huge insult.
I think someone needs to write an article on this sort of insulting mentality in the church. This is doctrinally unfounded (as far as I know) and is uncalled for. Dating is fluid cultural invention that has changed over the years. It will continue to change, and it is not the priesthood's duty alone to keep up with that change. And a priesthood holder is no less for not asking a woman out. If you want to talk about what priesthood holders should be doing, let's tackle things like drug and pornography addiction, not the shortcoming of a shy man.
As a young, single adult woman, I need to say something. I have a tendency to attract young single adult men who are...disturbingly persistent even when I have said, *nicely*, that I am not interested in them in that way. The one time I asked someone out, I was shot down cold. My brain is wired in a different way than other women as I have Asperger's, which consequently leaves me in much the same boat as many guys. I *cannot* read between the lines, subtext is completely lost on me, and I have a very difficult time being around anyone for long amounts of time. I am 26 and have never been in a serious relationship in my life. Heck, I've never been in *any* sort of romantic relationship, not really. Yes, I believe it's okay for a girl to ask a guy out, and I believe bits and pieces of what everyone has said on this article...but I also believe that not every person is the same and that every situation is different. Because of how my mind works (and other factors, such as severe introversion), it is extremely difficult for me to date because I either try too hard and come off too strong or don't try enough, leaving the guy that I am interested in completely in the dark. I just want to say that you need to be mindful of how you talk to people and how you interact with them, to both men and women. Men, for those of you who makes friends with girls easily, make sure you're not leading any of them on. Women, for those of you who flirt with guys regularly, make sure you're not leading any of them on. Leading someone on is the worst thing you can do to them because you're wasting their time and their heart on something that will only hurt them and make them distrust the opposite sex even more. That's all I have to say.
Yep.. there is A LOT of miscommunication going on. Good article. Both men and women are confused about how to act and be. This leads to frustration and both genders are turned off from each other. Our stake is working to revive the CASUAL DATE in our culture. The casual date has died over the years.
[…] 5 Things Single LDS guys wish Single LDS Girls knew (Read) […]
Just a suggestion: don't call males "boys". If they have come back from a mission and are 20 years old, they are definitely "men".
I've been married for 28 years and I realized something not too long ago. Because of my impatience and too-proactive approach, I set things up in my relationship with my boyfriend (now husband) to have him kind of look to me for cues as to what was next. I wish I had been a little more patient and let him lead the way. I was the first to say "I love you" because I knew my husband (boyfriend) wanted to, but was too nervous. When he asked me to marry him, he was really nervous and I could tell he might chicken out, so I said, "Why don't you just ask me?" He did and I said yes. Kind of a funny story, but I wish I hadn't been the one to initiate either of those very important milestones of our relationship. I think it can be emasculating for a man and it puts a tacit "system" in place without you really realizing it. If they guy you like (or love) doesn't have enough confidence to take the initiative in asking for the first few dates, saying I love you, and proposing, then maybe you should give him some time to think about it until he is ready to step forward and be a man.
I agree with Christian's comment. Sorry, but right now men are pretty frustrated that it feels as though women are "controlling the narrative" where this is concerned. Sorry again, but something's almost always lost in translation when they start speaking "for" us, let alone "to" us. I honestly think it's horrid advice to have women asking out men. In the first place, it reinforces and enables inaction on the part of many men if the women are just going to be aggressive anyway. In the second, it turns tables uncomfortably; I may have been vaguely flattered every time I've been asked, but I also didn't really appreciate it deep down, and it never went anywhere. I can ask for myself...just show sufficient appreciative hints that I can make that decision. And respect that if I don't ask, it might mean I'm just not that into her.
Initiative is important for both genders.
To the women, my only additional counsel would be this: If you decide to ask a guy out, let him take some initiative after that. Leading out in "everything" may not be what you want, but leading on occasion will be your role forever as a mother and wife. Don't be afraid to take initiative. There's no difference between genders.
I only continue to date women who take a little initiative--they could invite me to come to an activity with them, ask me on a date after I've asked them on one (or before I ask them on one), or invite me to dinner. And it worked for those girls--I did most of the date asking after that, but they let me know they were sincerely interested, and gave me an opportunity to take it from there. It works. Maybe some guys want to be in control of everything . . . but as the author points out, the majority seem to want girls to take some initiative too--whether that's asking out on a date or something else--just let us know you're interested!
I like her phrase "cutting in line". It's true--there are so many options out there, I really don't have a clue which ones are interested. So I tend to ask out those who appear most likely to be interested in me--and I guess wrong 95% of the time. We never have time to get around to asking you because you make sure we DON'T know you're interested. And those who let me know are much more likely to get dates--even if it doesn't go anywhere for one or both of us--than those who don't let me know they are interested. Just cut in line any way you can :)
A good thing to remember is that self-deprecation is actually selfish. You are focusing on yourself--but in a different negative way instead of the obviously selfish and negative way.
I also appreciate your comments. I wish more women would ask guys out on dates. I ask when I'm interested, and often they lead me to believe they're not. But the only girls I've ever been in relationships with were those who essentially sought to do something with me--a date. It is our simple way of saying we are interested, and it can do the same for any girl.
This is an article that needs to be written by a man. Period. Here we have a woman's interpretation of what guys think from a womanly perspective and stated in a womanly way. One example: Men are hunters. We do not like to be hunted. Sure I accept "dates" to go out from women, but they are "friends" and not potential "mates."
I think communication is the key here. But here's one thing I noticed: before every major step in our relationship, I would bring up a topic or ask a question that would invite him to take the lead and pace things as he was ready for them, while also letting him know that I was ready for some forward motion. It is great for guys to take the lead, but girls need to reciprocate the emotional vulnerability that guys have to go through. Be direct and clear when communicating with each other. Tell him the things you like about him and what he says and does. If a guy can be sure that the girl is on board, amazing things happen. However, if the yoke of communication and emotional vulnerability is not shared equally, a lot of guesswork is introduced which slows things down and introduces a great deal of instability and insecurity into the relationship. Bottom line: girls, part of being a help meet is communication, counselling, and helping your man know he is important to you. He needs that. What we don't realize is that guys are very bit as insecure as we can be, which is why they need you to help.
I love how up in arms some people get over the idea of women asking men out. Visitor, below, gets it exactly right. The article is merely stating that guys don't mind (and often enjoy it) when girls ask them out. It's an option you women have, should you choose to employ it. Don't want to? You don't have to. But we have the author stating that "nearly every boy that I asked mentioned this in some form," and several of the commenters currently enjoy marriages that resulted from such actions. Clearly it's a viable option.
Jim Jam said it best: when you invite a guy out, you're merely cutting in line. If the stats are to be believed, the single active women in the church far outnumber the single active men. That guy that's perfect for you might not know you exist yet. Or maybe he does, but there are so many other women vying for his attention that he just hasn't thought to ask you out. You can sit there patiently and wait for him to get around to you, or you can cut in line and make things happen.
While this article is not the first time I have read that guys would like it if women asked them out, in my experience it has not worked out well when I have tried to ask guys out. The guys (yes, I've done it multiple times) have not reacted well. Therefore, I've gone to showing my interest in other ways. I completely understand that it's hard to risk rejection by asking women out, and I am willing to bear some of that risk, but in practice it doesn't seem to work that way.
In high school, I had a difficult time accepting compliments. A well-observed seminary teacher noticed this and worked with me to be able to accept compliments graciously, by saying thank you. No self-deprication, no waffling, just a sincere thank you. All these years later, I am still grateful for the opportunity he took to help me. He wasn't even MY teacher, but he had observed what a struggle it was for me. I needed this article to remind me that it is okay to accept praise and say thanks without seeming high and mighty. Thank you for the article.
I find it fascinating that many comments turned out to be a "lecturing series". "Guys do this", "Girls do that". Not only is that not related to the article, I'd go as far as saying it's unattractive :).
The author was not saying: "Girls should ask guys out." The author IS saying: "Guys don't mind when women ask them out".
I'd like to point out that it's not so much the mixed signal sometimes, but many times below that is an undecisiveness that drives us nuts. Mixed signals are a part of life, and a couple should manage. Undecisiveness ir a nightmare. Why waste everyone's time, money and emotions if you know nothing will happen? (or you still have a crush on another man, etc.)
Building on number 4, I'd go as far as wanting women to know that they are valuable and amazing. Men find many things attractive in women, not just the "typical" looks. If we say you're beautiful, you really are. If we say you're amazing, you really are. Contrary to some comments, most men are not looking for skinny sub 20 yr. old blondes. Not even close.
I think this article makes some excellent points! But I think girls shouldn't be asking out guys. I think there are 1 out 1,000 cases where it probably works out that the guy is interested in the girl asking him out and it leads to their eternal marriage.
Good article, but it should be "5 Things LDS Singles want you to know." None of these are limited to guys or girls. Plus here are a few of my personal additions that also go both ways. First, if you don't like the kind of girls/guys that your dating, date different people. I can't even say how many times I have heard guys (and girls) say that their relationships never work out, their girls always turn out to be crazy, etc. If you want different results, you have to change your method. Date a lot of different kinds of people. You only think you know what you want. On a mostly related topic, use your brain when dating. A lot of people say they value humor, righteousness, intelligence over looks, but how many actually practice what they preach? Think long term.
Second and by far the most important, be kind. So many people are afraid of "encouraging" someone that they aren't attracted to that they are rude or mean. They say that they don't want to lead the other person on and use that as an accuse to be cold. If someone is putting themselves out there for you, the least you can do is be nice. Nobody likes a jerk, or at least nobody worth having.
Many/most men think very linearly and don't understand the concept of subtext. This goes along with "men don't take hints". Feelings are not foreign to them, but YOUR feelings girls, are foreign for our minds to navigate. It sounds like psychobabble, but what has helped me to understand is comments like "When you say/do this, it makes me feel this way..." both positive and negative. Ladies, don't read more into a situation than is there, often there isn't an ulterior motive behind his actions and words other than wanting to be understood and wanting to understand you. For the guys, take a little time to think, "what do my words and actions make her feel and how can I adjust my communication to better understand her, while making myself clearer."
The opposite sex is not the enemy. They often don't realize what they are doing to you, because they have never lived inside your head. Be open and let them in and always assume the best intentions.
social cues, girl preferences, hiding feelings, feeling embarrassed. the two choices know each other. many factors can prevent fully showing romantic intentions. it is impossible to read what others think or feel. dances and fhe activities might be a good way to interact with the opposite sex, without the pressure of a date. one time I asked a girl for her number she said "no thank you", another girls keeps saying, "too busy" or "tired", I am still not sure if the second girl is hinting not to ask her out anymore. I think, so. she would suggest other times if she was really interested.
Joy: I'm sorry that you see it that way. But you are actually stepping over an even bigger line by placing this issue in the "priesthood responsibilities" column. You are stating false doctrine. Please be careful ... There are others who may read this that could take it as the truth... Which it is not. It your opinion plain and simple.
Why do guys think that just because a girl likes them, she wants to marry them? This is why I'm so unconfident about showing interest or trying to initiate conversations because guys seem to assume I'm dying to marry them. Maybe it's my resting nice face or maybe I'm super repulsive but sometimes I swear I just talk to a guy and he freaks out.
i get that girls can ask guys out, but I think that the guys should be the ones to ask. I heard a stake president tell some young men that they should ask girls to dance, which will prepare them to ask girls on dates, which will prepare them to ask for a girl's hand in marriage, which will prepare them to preside in their own home. More than helping out with the house work, wives want their husbands to take the lead in having family prayer, family scripture study, and family home evening. If the wife has to take charge on everything that happens in the home, then the couple is not working as a team, and the husband is not taking care of his duties. If a girl is doing all the asking and planning of dates before marriage, it is setting a bad precedent. I think there are many ways a girl can be bold in letting a guy know she's interested without doing the actual asking for a date. But just like guys don't get hints, girls often misinterpret things guys say and do. So if a girl non-hintingly communicates that she would like to get to know a guy better or would be interested in a date, the guy needs to clearly communicate either his mutual interest or his non interest. I think society does enough to feminize men. Girls should foster the development of manhood by letting the guys do the asking. You'll be much happier being married to a man than a mama's boy who has to have everything done for him.
The writer is clearly not saying that you should ask guys out that you feel are too timid to ask you out. The point is that sometimes guys just keep looking in the wrong places and you're completely welcome to give us some pointers. Oh we're asking girls on dates, but to assume we've meticulously analyzed every girl we know and our prospects of a good date with them and that the reason we haven't asked you out yet is because your results came back as unsatisfactory... well that's silly. There's a lot of girls, a lot of dates happening, feel free to cut in line.
What about the five things Single LDS Women want Single LDS Men to know? Here's what this Single LDS Woman wants Singel LDS Men to know:
1. If we ask you out WE'RE INTERESTED. If you turn us down, you're not likely to be asked again because you're clearly not interested in us (though if you ask us out we might consider saying yes) and if you lie to us about why you're not going out with us, you definitely won't get asked again. Smart women don't tolerate liars.
2. Nowhere has any prophet ever said that the girls you date MUST be blonde. Believe it or not, brunettes have just as much (if not more) fun as blondes. We know the media has hard wired you to look for someone that just got their head out of a bucket of bleach (because let's face it, there aren't as many natural blondes out there as the media would have you believe), but please, try to fight the flawed mentality. Plus hair that hasn't been bleached/dyed constantly is generally softer to touch.
3. We talk to each other. So if you're a jerk on our date, expect our friends to be forewarned. And if you're a really sweet guy, we'll recommend you to our friends if it doesn't work out between us. We'll go out of our way to introduce you to our friends if we think you'll be good together.
4. If you follow that stupid wife hack thing from youtube, you'll get what you deserve. Seriously, you'd be better off ignoring everything in that video. I personally think that if that's what you're looking for, you're too shallow to be with anyone that lives outside your mirror.
5. Unlike milk, we don't come with an expiration date. You CAN date and even marry women who are older than 19. Check with your bishop if you feel like this is doctrinally unsound.(<---sarcasm) Seriously though, women in the 31-45 singles range are just as dateable as the little girl that just graduated from high school. We might seem scary because we actually have life experience, but get over it. After all, if we wanted to be around pansies we'd have a flower garden.
Just remember that we are ALL going to be held accountable for our actions in this life. That includes why we chose to date or not date certain people and how we talked about them afterwards.
As Woody put it in Toy Story: "So play nice!"
I ask girls on dates. I still love being asked on a date. Guys should. Girls should. If you want a date ask for a date! Experience the same fear we guys "should" feel. It also shows that a girl is confident which is attractive. I'll be the one to propose, but I don't need to plan and ask for every date!
I'm with Joy on HE needs to ask HER out. Not as a priesthood duty, but as a MAN duty. I'm one seriously strong personality, was fiercely independent, and expected the men to ask me out. It's a man job. My husband never in a million years expected me to agree to a date, but asked anyway, and I agreed. He ate a chocolate covered cricket on that date so his ice cream would be free. Somehow that didn't run me off. I was also very clear that I would not kiss for 3 months, because if he liked me enough to wait 3 months, then I'd know he was in it for me not a hormone rush. Married now, I follow my husband, he's a man that doesn't sit around and wait for me to take the lead. He comes to me, councils with me, then we proceed. He's lucky I'm very straightforward with what I need or want so he's never left wondering. Kind, straightforward, communication is what gets you out of that single status...and not going to BYU.
I like the statement made at the end of the article:
"I’ve heard the well-intentioned institute lessons about couples who got married nine days after the mission too. I know it’s stressful. What’s more stressful is being married to someone you didn’t really want to marry. If you’re not going to be the happiest person in the world, or at the very least in the room, on your wedding day then don’t marry that person no matter how out-of-college and ‘the-only-single-person-left-of-your-friends’ you are."
I have a disability that prevented me from going on a full time mission, now, I don't know why the girls did what they did, but going to BYU has been one the worse experiences of my life.
Also, one thing to add is don't limit yourself. When I finally did find my spouse, I was in a very rural area, unable to drive due to the disability, and there weren't any girls I was interested in. However, I did have internet access and I setup an account on LDSSIngles.com. After doing that, I finally found someone, and that someone was even willing to come to me. It was a perfect situation, it just took quite awhile to get there.
So the last part of the article, Be Brave, should also include have faith, and keep on trucking.
I don't think that girls need to go so far as to ask guys out (though it would be the most straightforward approach), but it would be nice if they would take an active role in expressing interest, or even suggest that hanging out would be a good idea. I get told occasionally about some girl complaining that I don't notice when she is flirting with me, and 90% of the time I have no idea who they are talking about. Hint droppers are the worst, i don't even want to talk to a girl who thinks that "if he really cares" I'll develop ESP and realize she wants to date me with no actual evidence. I occasionally miss things that people tell me directly to my face thinking they have my full attention. And I'm not the only guy who does that, its in our DNA.
Asking people out is scary for a lot of us, especially when you can't get a girl alone to talk for a few minutes. It's really hard to walk up to a group of girls talking to each other and say "can i talk to jenny alone so i can ask her out on a date?" Particularly when you'd like to go out with several of her friends. We aren't all Type-A, Extrovert, Tony Starks. That doesn't mean we can't still be Providers and Protectors.
Asking girls out is a Priesthood Responsibility? I've read every scripture relating to priesthood responsibility and nowhere does it say, "it is the duty of the Elder to ask girls on dates." Yes getting married is a priesthood duty, and I've been told by priesthood leaders that "going on dates" is a priesthood responsibility leading up to that goal, but finding an eternal companion requires real effort on both sides. So if either the guy or the girl is just sitting around waiting for Mr./Ms. Charming to plop down on their lap, it's never going to happen.
Something missing from the list: Not having served a mission doesn't make a guy less worthy of dating or marrying. While it's wonderful that men and women choose to put aside roughly two years of their lives to share the gospel with others far from home. It shouldn't increase or decrease a person's value if they've worn a name tag "Elder"/"Sister".
Joy: I looked through D&C 84 and I cant find a single verse about asking people out. Trying to pretend it's a priesthood responsibility is just another way to avoid responsibility and agency by making it the other persons job. Also your daughters are wrong. The best way to not get what you want in life is to not ask for it. If it is such a simple thing that proves a guys worthiness then what does that say about the women who refuse?
I've always taken initiative because I do not want to prolong a situation that most likely won't last or most likely will succeed. That's been my policy throughout dating, if it isn't progressing-break it off, if it's going better than you thought and there are no reasons to validate a break up then go ahead and be brave! The best decision I made was to ask this guy I knew from a few years back in high school to "catch up" though we had never spoken to each other than a "hello" ... needless to say he is my husband now. But without being brave, I would most likely still be "playing hard to get" or whatever this nonsense is about guys being the responsible ones.
For those of you who have married because your wife asked you first, I think that is wonderful, but if you are a guy and you are waiting for a woman to ask you out so you can get married, you need to read the talk by Dallin H. Oaks, "Dating versus Hanging Out" or the Doctrines of Salvation, by Joseph Fielding Smith.
And for the guys who do ask girls out and get turned down, keep asking. I met a young man several years ago that was a friend of one of my daughters. He was a very nice young man. I asked him if he was dating. He said that he had ask about 40 girls out and never got a second date. So, he had stopped asking. I told him to keep dating; just because those girls weren't smart enough to see what a wonderful person he was---he honored his priesthood, graduated from college, had a great job--didn't mean that all girls were that way. Keep dating. He said he would. The next time he asked a girl out turned out to be the one he married. They now have 2 beautiful children, and he is in medical school to be a doctor. So, gentlemen, don't get discouraged. Keep dating. The wonderful man I married wasn't the man I thought I would marry. He was arrogant and egotistical--not characteristics I was drawn to. I actually went out with him to put him in his place when he was so arrogant, but I actually found out that he was a very nice guy and quite the gentleman. We've been married for 44 years and he's still quite the gentleman. So, girls, don't be so quick to judge. The man you least expect could be your knight in shining armor. And guys, keep dating.
I can understand Joy's rationalization that men should be doing the asking out & asking to marry, but a "priesthood responsibility"? That seems like a stretch. I am confident many relationships and marriages have thrived when the woman has done the asking. It all depends on the personalities of the people involved.
I enjoyed the article. The only thing I would add would be the importance of having friends. Be friendly to everyone, attend social events, make friends, make close friends. If you like a girl/boy, ask him/her out.
You can get to know people very well by becoming close friends and spending time together. You don't necessarily need to all someone on a date to get to know him/her. If you like the other person, then sure, ask him/her out. Nothing is weirder than being asked out by someone you barely know just because he/she thinks you're "hot".
Lastly, girls should feel free to ask out guys. If the guy doesn't like a strong, independent girl, then it's probably not going to work out anyway.
The last two dates I've asked out said, "Sure. But only as friends. I'm not interested in dating you." This is the worst. It's not like it's a marriage proposal - it's a first date. Guys aren't expecting commitment on a first date.
Guys not taking hints (especially myself) is so true. We do not take hints and if we catch a hint, we second guess ourselves. I've been doing that since my BYU years when on our third or fourth date to a movie, my date stated 3 or 4 times that her hand was cold. Finally deciding to take the hint, I tried to hold it, only to have her pull it back and say, 'I don't think so.' I had a huge crush on her and my confidence suffered a major setback there.
After 16 years of dating and being engaged once (and almost twice), only to have them break it off with no explanation (to this day, I still don't know what went wrong), I can honestly say, I do not understand women. But, I do know that communication is among the most important components of a relationship.
I'll keep going on dates though and hopefully, something will happen. Maybe?
(snicker) "Guys don't take hints" Repeat this again and again. I knew a girl that told me that her lip gloss tasted good. My response? :Oh, that's good." Ha! As for the be straightforward part, that's not just for dating. If you want something, you should ask.
I brought my daughters up to NOT ask men on dates. It is the man's responsibility--a priesthood responsibility. After they graduated from BYU not having found anyone, I began to think I had made a mistake. Upon mentioning this to them, they said, "Mom, you were right. If a guy doesn't have to guts to ask me on a date, what kind of father and protector would that person be? If they can't simply say 6 little words, "Would you like to go out", why would I want to marry them? Doesn't encourage much confidence in someone as a husband, father, and protector if someone is too afraid to ask one on a date. After all, the asking in marriage by a male is a priesthood responsibility.
As a guy, I completely agree with all of these. My wife asked me out on our first date and I looked it. To be honest, I was so stuck on myself that if she hadn't asked me out, I probably would have missed out on marrying the most incredible woman in the world.
All that aside, if you're a woman and you meet guys who tell you this stuff is wrong, you probably don't want to date a misogynist like him anyway. There are plenty of confident, deep, self-aware, attractive guys out there. It just takes some extra courage and respect for one's self to find them. Not to mention that the hand of the Lord is with you if you're doing what you can to follow Him. He will make all things right in the end.
I really like this article. From a former single LDS guy's perspective, I would say that when a guy is a really close friend, he is almost always interested in dating you on some level. He may need time to realize that he has already found you. I would say, don't be pushy or needy. Just let him enjoy hanging out with you and let him know how he makes you feel. He will be dating you before he realizes that he is dating you. My wife was my best friend, and I was looking everywhere else to find a girlfriend. She had just broken up with a boyfriend, and I naturally took his place as the person she would spend her time with. She knew she was interested, but I can echo the fact that guys don't get hints. She made it pretty obvious, but I didn't see it. I went with her to a concert that she had planned go to with her ex boyfriend. I went just as a friend, but I admitted to myself how beautiful she looked. We are still best friends, but now we have been married for ten years.
What neat observations! I wish I'd known these things when I was young. Maybe I wouldn't be a never married at 55. haha. Now I'm just waiting for the first wife to die, hoping men my age aren't the same as the young men I couldn't figure out 30 years ago. haha
Again, these are only opinions. I used to get so frustrated that I had no say in who I got to go out with, so I freely asked men out. I have had several men tell me that they think it is a huge turn-off when women ask them out. They made it very clear that it wasn't my "role", that men like to be the "pursuer". I also found that when I was the pursuer, men would not commit. So I quit pursuing.
I hope there will be a follow up article: five things single LDS girls wish single lds guys knew.
I love #1....probably because I asked someone out...and now he's my husband (30th anniversary this year!)
Yes, rejection stings...but that is all. We've all been told "no" at some point for some reason in our lives', and we've lived through it (and sometimes becomes better because of it)! If you don't ask for what you want, the answer is already "no" so what do you have to lose?
I tend to see the dating process as the process by which we gain trust in and become vulnerable towards a potential romantic partner. Letting yourself become vulnerable is scary, because the more vulnerable you are toward someone, the more they can hurt you. Because of this, our natural tendency is to take baby steps and then see if the other person responds. I flirt a little, then see if you respond. You recommend an activity, and see if I'm receptive. I ask you out on a date, and see if you accept. Step by step we raise the stakes as we gain trust in the other person and make ourselves more vulnerable to them.
If one person doesn't reciprocate, they force the other person to get uncomfortably vulnerable without offering anything in return. Most decent people aren't willing to extend themselves far enough to create a relationship without the other person meeting them halfway. The first three points (and to some extent #4) relate to this idea of meeting each other in the middle so as to keep the vulnerability in balance.
Put plainly, if a woman isn't willing to reciprocate when a man shows interest, things aren't likely to lead anywhere.
Mixed signals REALLY are the worst... Great article, thanks!
Be straight forward girls. On our third date I worked up the nerve to kiss my girl. After I did, she said not bad and if you hadn't kissed me I would never have gone out with you again. I even had enough nerve to kiss her again. Two weeks later we were engaged, three months from then we were married.
I was 29 at the time, and she was 21. I had graduated from Uni and Law School.
Lots of guys are willing to ask girls out but they often expect the girls to show some interest first. Take time to talk, smile, and get to know them. A thoughtful gesture like baking cookies goes far for a girl to show that she thinks of a guy not just as one of the crowd.
Don't be afraid to be nice to everyone, just because you think that someone that you are not interested in will show interest. It is sad that a lonely person finds that you are the only one that is a friend, but that doesn't mean than you have to keep accepting dates with them. Yes, one or two dates is a kind gesture for someone that you are not compatible with, but be kind and say "no".
I am 78 years old now, but haven't forgotten the dating years and what boys like. I've also raised a family of seven, so I know what I am talking about. The most important thing I learned in my dating period is this: when you are with someone, treat them as the most important person in your life, because they are right now. Look them in the eyes and really listen to what they are saying. (This applies to all relationships, not just dating,btw) By doing this one thing, I had more requests for dates than I could accommodate, and received four proposals that summer. People want to feel validated and important enough for you to listen to and to share your thoughts with, not in a fawning way, but just out of pleasant, caring, and kind courtesy.
Form a caring friendship at first. Listen, think, talk, and take it from there, as that friendship develops, things will move on. Your purpose in dating is t get to know that person better, their qualities, their sense of what is important to them, so you can make a wise choice when you find the person you feel is the one you really want to spend the rest of your life and eternity with, and who you can safely give your heart to. Remember, love is a choice. Make a good one because you have learned from experience the qualities that will make a great spouse.
Note to women: Don't make snap judgments about guys until you've actually made an effort to find out what our character is like.
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