I just wanted to write to thank you for your clear and in depth analysis of this book I am not a member of the LDS church so am not knowledgeable about any of this. I heard about this book because of all the recent court documents release with Ruby Franke and Jodi H. and apparently the book greatly influenced Jodi. I found this site because I was trying to find out about this book, not just reviews from a site selling it. You did a good job comparing it to other books and beliefs and showing the issues. I just wanted to commend you for such a deep diving article and tell you how I valued it, even if we have different beliefs. Thanks again.
Almandos Aristides IRIGOYENJanuary 17, 2022
I read the book Visions of Glory. I think it is amazing. To have an open mind is essential. Do not forget the testimonies at the end of the book referred to similar events. I am not afraid of new perspectives, I want them and I did not find anything that offend me. 100 points to this book
Cliff JolmJune 13, 2020
I noticed many similarities in this book and the priestcraft peddled by Chad Daybell, as shown in official court documents. This bunk is very dangerous, and highly addictive. Please, please...read the canonizes scriptures and teachings of modern prophets; not this stuff.
Brett NielsonJanuary 6, 2020
Well, here's the deal. The book is not scripture but it is very interesting. Read it, think about it. Come to your own conclusions. I would never think of the book as 100% literal. It's a dream or a vision or both. I just use it as a vehicle to consider things I may not have thought of. I don't quote from it at church. I am not scared of the book. I have a mind. I have a heart. I can discern for myself. I don't need anyone to condemn it or support it. I can use my own judgement. Why should people be up in arms about story told in a book that is not claiming to be scripture but just the experience a man had that he decided to share? Read it or don't read it. Ponder it or don't ponder it. Decide for yourself if you agree with all of it, none of it, or just a portion of it. The sky is not falling. I guess I can't blame some of you who are alarmed by it. I think if you look at it as just a book of one man's experiences or thoughts or even creativity then you are less likely to be upset by it.
KjetilJune 23, 2018
I don't see the problem; just don't treat it as scripture or a literal guide to coming events. It's an interesting story and book. Period. And at the same time: prophets and apostles have not revealed all truth, because it has not been given to them or because we were/are not ready to receive it. So analyzing this book which potentially deals on divine matters (potentially!) by comparing it to existing scripture and statements, and using our own understanding to do so will probably make us fall short. But again: as long as we don't treat this as revealed scipture, we're fine. Read the scriptures daily, as that certainly will bring you closer to Christ!
JeffreyDecember 19, 2017
Amen Bro. Ogden
Nice Job
Follow the Prophets, the First presidency & Twelve, and keep personal revelations personal for ourselves.
thanks you
Jeffrey
Brett AllenNovember 14, 2016
I liked the first part of this book. (1) I loved being reminded that while here on earth we need to be a tool in the Lords hand to bless and serve others. That if we will let Him, our Saviour through the Holy Ghost, will lead us on the right path to maximize our time on earth to spread the Gospel and be true disciples. (2) I was also grateful for the strong reminder that there is no substitute for repentance, personal purity and righteousness. (3) What I took from the last days chapters, was not that I was reading a description of the future, but that times will become perilous, both physically and spiritually. We need to have developed strong unshaken testimonies of Jesus Christ and filled our lamps to the brim with the oil of countless acts of service and devotion along with hours of scripture study and temple attendance. (4) If our every thought is centered on obedience to Christ we will then have the strength, courage and humility to stay faithful and true, regardless of how the future truly unfolds.
JaredJune 21, 2016
What is so interesting to me about this article is how the author demonstrates how much the book “Visions of Glory” is at odds with the doctrines, policies, and views of the LDS church leadership and membership. The author uses dozens of direct quotes from LDS church leaders to substantiate his views. So if you liked reading Visions of Glory and agree with it in substance than you need to realize that your position on this book is very much at odds with the LDS church leadership. It is strange to me how many people there are who loved this book and are also loyal members of the LDS church who still believe its top leaders are prophets, seers, and revelators.
MarshylJune 5, 2015
I read the book and enjoyed most of it. About the last third or quarter of the book, the style of writing changed a bit and it became less intriguing to read--not that this is a fault or flaw in the motivation of publishing it--just an observation. Me, my wife and the majority of my family and close friends have read this book and all have come away with inspired thoughts and concerned introspection. The experiences written about were taken as Spencer's experiences, but also an opportunity to reflect our own spiritual and temporal preparedness. When you live day to day with little worry other than the mundane or routineness of career, family, church callings and responsibilities and a little time for recreation, personal development and so forth--the reality that we live in the end of times can slip down the consciousness priority. For me and the majority of my family and friends, it was a welcome reminder to recognize where we may be falling short--in our relationships with each other and others, in our spiritual devotion, in our trust with the Lord and readiness to forgive, seek forgiveness and exercise greater love and compassion. It was a wake up call to arouse the spiritual and temporal senses and avoid the all-too-easy complacency of every day living. I recommend it to anyone who has a solid testimony of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, His church and the authority of doctrinal revelation--they will find it only adds to their ability to live a better, more inspired, loving and prepared life.
RayMay 23, 2015
Read the book. Loved it. I too have received promptings, visions, and dreams from the Lord, but not in the magnitude that Spencer has. Many of these I have treasured up for 20 to 25 years, not speaking to others about them. This book has allowed me to take these sacred experiences and put them in a semblance of order. It has also allowed me to merge my experiences with the words and teachings of General Authorities in a way that is not contradictory to the Doctrines of the Church.
To those who feel the need to criticize John M. Pontius or "Spencer", remember the teachings of the Savior. "Let him who is without sin, cast the first stone." In no way was it their intent that the reader accept this book as scripture, nor was it intended to replace scripture. There is nothing wrong with reading Visions of Glory, the Standard Works, and the words of the brethren. If you do so with the Spirit, all will lead you to Christ.
It is easy to find fault one with another and find mistakes and inconsistencies. We are all human. Let those without the Church do that. If you are concerned about John Pontius and Spencer, pray for them, put it in the Lord's hands, and move on. It is not our job to judge and condemn.
DanFebruary 3, 2015
Great book. Love it!
Marv MOctober 28, 2014
I had a friend who is a sensational type of person recommend this book to me. When I say sensational I mean it in a weird way. I read it and felt good about some of the things I read, However when I got past page 100 I immediately started feeling troubled and anxious. When he gets into the visions of the natural/unnatural calamaties I started doubting. It was troublesome to me and I could not let it go. I came to realize that I was being deceived, yes deceived. It's an actual feeling you get, and it's not pleasant. Feeling the Spirit is pleasant, and knowing God is a God of order and Love is pleasant. This book is unorganized and really deceptive. Do not read it, you will be sorry you did. Stick to the books of the Prophets and Apostles and the Standard works for Greater Light. That is where there is safety and truth.
Mark PetersonOctober 28, 2014
Some of us are personally acquainted with someone that has had an NDE experience. The NDE accounts generally agree on one distinct and certain point of understanding. In the next life, which some have said is the real life, since mortal life is only a tiny part of eternity, the feeling of love abounds. These people relate that Love for each other, Love for God, and Love from God is so intense that it is almost unbearable for us in this present mortal existence. Evidently, love is everywhere in the universe and it overwhelms any other feeling and surpasses anything we can imagine.
With this amazing love as the basis, we have been taught by prophets that terrible and fantastic things are soon to come. The scriptures also tell us that in the last days good members of the church will have visions and dreams foretelling the calamities to befall us. I dare to say that not one of us doubts that we are living in the very last days.
Yes, it is completely possible that there could be mis-perceptions in these accounts, the same as any person would be at a loss to accurately describe something they don't understand or have never seen before. It makes sense to believe there are human errors in the details, while retaining ones belief in the clear message of warning.
Leah GibbonsOctober 27, 2014
Wow. I'm certainly learning a lot about members of the Church and how we can differ on our perceptions about this book "Visons of Glory". I've read it. I was bored at some parts but was captivated and excited about other parts. I read with an open mind and every feeling of excitement, sadness and mixed emotions that I experienced while reading --and naturally combined what I was reading with my own testimony and knowledge. I have to agree with Greg Wright, Maureen Olson, and Gerald Ericksen's points of view. I honestly think that with the Spirit guiding us we each will glean from this book what we are suppose to. With that said, I also think that for those members who feel this book is anywhere from "somewhat important" all the way to "hogwash", that that is what it is meant to be for you. (Just my opinion) For me, it gives me a better understanding of how things could go in the future, but gives me help and understanding of things going on in my own life. The scriptures or word of God will always and forever be my foremost guide. Prophets will always be who I listen to for answers and help. The guidance of the Spirit will help me discern, and for now I discern no wrong in this book. I have some questions, but my feeling overall is the writings in this book are true for Spencer. The rest of us read and discern for ourselves what we want to get from what he shared. I for one am grateful that he took the time and effort to share such personal experiences.
GeorgeOctober 26, 2014
I read the book and although interesting it's clearly not inspired to me. Reading the Book of Mormon every day is they key to discerning truth from error. When you read the most correct book everyday it's so easy to spot fakes. I'm more concerned about the people here saying they found it edifying and uplifting etc. Those saying this do not have the gift of discernment and should read the BOM straight for 3-4 months then read this book again. Trust me, you will then know its not of God.
Kelly OgdenOctober 25, 2014
Rebuttal to Brother Ogden regarding
AlanOctober 23, 2014
1) I find many comments here interesting. Many of them focus on concerns of him "sharing" the visions and trying to make money from them and not that many of them are doctrinally unsound.
2) Off the top of my head, I can think of three other major writings like this in church history. Hiram Page being one of the most famous examples.
3) I don't doubt he actually had these visions, but I do doubt that they were from the Lord. Why? Not once did one of these angles who ministered to him pass a test of authenticity. *required*
BroBrysonOctober 22, 2014
I've read Visions of Glory. I read reviews about it first and knew what I was getting into. You just have to read it with caution. There wasn't any point where I thought "this is un-holy" - I just took it as if it was a person sharing experiences that they had they they themselves don't even understand. I imagine Pontius had to resist the temptation to draw conclusions and share them in the writing, but overall I feel like it's safe to read "with a grain of salt". There is a heavy emphasis throughout the book that the revelations are personal and shouldn't be adopted as doctrine - this doesn't mean that he was forbidden to share them because I'm sure it's helped many people out there who have similar experiences who feel like they're crazy and alone because they "aren't allowed to talk about it". These same people may be missing out on a lot of insight into their lives simply because they've been conditioned to cast them aside. I think the book overall will help a lot of people more than it will harm the Church and its members. It got the wheels in my head turning and I was able to see a whole new perspective during my daily scripture study. I think it's important to read maintain daily scripture study while reading this book because the scriptures will invite the spirit, and the spirit will then be able to teach/filter as necessary while reading "Visions". I prefer to rely on the spirit as opposed to picking apart everything from a scholarly standpoint. Joseph Smith started out as a 14-year-old farm boy with a question, and he got an answer through scripture study and prayer. Let the Holy Spirit guide - don't be afraid to read "Visions".
BrookeOctober 22, 2014
I read parts of the book and was deeply disturbed and upset. I am now very paranoid about the recent outbreak of Ebola and spend much more time than I should worrying about it. I am searching for something to help me find peace, if anyone has any ideas besides scriptures, faith, or prayers, please do say.
DakotaOctober 16, 2014
I'd love to thank 'Spencer' for sharing his vision so that he can help all of us who know what we need to do to live with our Savior and Heavenly Father again. Thank you for the reality check in these last days and--at least to me--giving us a gentle reminder to get prepared and not waste any more time delaying. Thank you to John for writing this important book, and as I realize he has passed away, I'd like to thank him through his wife and offer her an apology on behalf of all who have sent unkind words her way. Neither Spencer, John, nor her deserve that. I think many have been truly uplifted by this great book. If you're not on board with what 'Spencer' says, then don't read the book. Who are we to say that 'Spencer' or anyone else should not share an experience, especially if they are instructed to do so? If it happened to you, would you ignore that prompting? Guidance and knowledge are important and there are times when spiritual messengers can be just an 'ordinary person.' Plus, it's made very clear right from the beginning that it is not presented or meant to be considered as Church doctrine, so it shouldn't be taken that way. Neither 'Spencer' nor John Pontius are trying to replace any teachings or council from the Church. For me, the book was incredibly uplifting and I truly felt the love of the Savior in it. And I will read it more than once! Whether events unfold in the final days just as 'Spencer' describes isn't the point. The point is: are you faithful? Prepared? Is your family prepared? Where are you spiritually? This book makes you think about all those questions. All good things. Visions of Glory is truly a beautiful wake-up call and I would highly recommend it for anybody who cares about the future.
Brady JohnsonOctober 16, 2014
I agree with Becky..."He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her (him/them)." John 8:7
I believe if it doesn
BrianOctober 6, 2014
This is an exciting read. They book clearly states that it is an experience of one man, and the author doesn't belive it is anyone's potential future but visions and metaphors for Spencer. Joseph Smith said the topic of the afterlife should be of primary concern for us all. I gleaned a few spiritual things from the book. Everything we do in secret will be revealed. We do work for our family beyond the veil, Can we believe that they are closer than we think trying to help us? 1/3 of he pre-existence is here on earth trying to make us miserable. We are told in the scriptures that we will be taught in dreams. While the first half resonated with me, the second half feels more like food for thought or allegories. This book reminds me of the reality of eternal choices and personal experiences that lead us to build our testimony. I had a supernatural experience that was the catalyst to talk to my bishop, received a cleansing priesthood blessing and repented and served a mission. In times of doubt these experiences have been an unshakeable anchor, while many are skeptical of my story. With that I keep an open mind to other's stories. In the end, this book has made me think more of the afterlife and the trials that we need to be prepared for in the last days. Do I think Joseph Smith will appear? No but ancient prophets did appear to him. We believe stuff like that, right? Of course their are doctrinal inconsistencies, but the book wasn't claiming to be doctrine. This book would probably be too deep to non LDS, but taken with a grain of salt, it may make one ponder eternal matters and lead us to more scriptural study.
CorieOctober 6, 2014
I have read the book, but was unimpressed. Many have implied that the brethren have reviewed and approve of this book. Others have said the brethren's apparent silence is tacit approval of this work. I have read many books by people that were later excommunicated for their writings. I have had many friends read the same works and leave the church. What is the difference? Some lack discernment and are looking for something sensational. I find it interesting that this has turned into a fight about who is right and who is wrong. Joseph Smith said that we should, "search all heights and depths" to know God. However, when we search the depths and ignore the heights, we cannot acquire the discernment needed to navigate the straight and narrow path. I have read extensively and agree with Brother Ogden's cautions. This book offers nothing true that one could not obtain from a 'purer stream'.
BeckySeptember 30, 2014
Wow, I hear a lot of judgements being placed on "Spencer" and John Pontius for writing this book. Who is out of line here? Who are we to judge someone motives? If the book doesn't work for you, why condemn it our the authors? Pass it up or set it aside. We are all at different places in our understanding. Let us all practice love and unity. If this is "Spencer's" experience, who are we to judge?
Fabio SagebinSeptember 27, 2014
I had the blessing of translating the book into Portuguese and Spanish. I had several meetings with "Spencer" and developed a deep love and friendship with him. I learned that the only concern the "Brethren" had about the Visions of Glory, was not the content or the way it came to Spencer, but that the information was released to soon. Spencer is a good man, a righteous Bishop, a man "with no guile".
JulieSeptember 9, 2014
I would like to extend a very heartfelt thank you to "Spencer" for sharing his vision. As I was reading it, I fully understood that it was a vision meant for "him." He even explained several times he wasn't sure what some things even meant for him--he was just telling what he saw. Because of that, I did not take it as official Church doctrine at all, so I don't understand why there is controversy over it. Also, when I was reading it, I wasn't trying to search for something negative or something to find fault with. What I was looking for was the positive--and I will say that there were overwhelming positives throughout the book. One of the biggest concepts that impacted me was the crystal clear message of love that our Savior has for each one of us and how much he truly wants us to succeed. The feeling of love projected in this book was almost tangible, and since I've read it, it has even impacted the way I treat people every day--including strangers. All I have to keep in mind is our Savior's great love and that we should try to always be like him. And yes, I know I've learned that every day of my life--but this book had a beautiful impact in that area. Whether the events described in the book come to fruition as stated or not doesn't matter--what this book also did was impress upon me in a very effective way that I've still much work to do and I WILL be prepared whether events unfold during my lifetime or not. This book has given me a much deeper and broader love for everything and a much greater hope for the future. It's increased my courage for the future and its helped even further build my faith. So, its back to the beginning--it's what you personally look for, and I choose to look for the positive and focus on ways that this book has truly helped me in my life. I would recommend anyone with the same life goals to read it!
Klaus MaartensAugust 26, 2014
Hi: My mom was reading the book and told me that it was interesting and showed me some paragraphs which she was highlighting. So I went to the web and I located the book in PDF format, but just before I ordered it, Kelly Ogden's article called my attention and I read it. Then, I did not have the desire to read the book. The commentary on the book has lots of references and an accusatory tone, I don't think that the writer or the visionary are speaking for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. or had the intention to misled the membership. We have one of the greatest gifts of agency, to choose what we desire. If I decide to read the book and take every event to heart and disregard the teaching of the Scriptures, then I am a slothful servant and not worthy. I enjoy Revelations too much! We are in the last days, and it is going to get worse. The sure thing is to stay in holy places and obey; that will guarantee our survival from crime, the Gadianton robbers in Washington DC, and the hate from the Muslim world. Be prepared, trust in the Mighty God of Israel and succeed.
JamesAugust 23, 2014
I happen to know who "spencer" is. I had the pleasure of meeting him and his wife not too long ago. He seemed like a great guy, and his wife seemed really sweet. A comment that I read on here said something to the affect, "I wouldn't be surprised if the leaders of the church took action against him".
Well I happen to know for a fact that, even though the leaders of the church are aware of the book "visions off glory", and know "spencer", they have called him to be a bishop of a ward in the salt lake county not too long ago.
I find this particularly interesting. If the leaders of the church have the confidence in "spencer" to call him to this position of leadership, and believe him to be a man of God, than why would I have reason to doubt his story. I think his being called as bishop is validation that his story is genuine.
Again people, "spencer" unequivocally states that his visions and experiences are not doctrine, but were meant for him. And why can't the Lord tell him that there will come a time when he can reveal what he has seen? Why is everybody saying that he should keep it to himself? If The Lord told you it was ok to share, wouldn't YOU share it? Of course you would! I don't understand how people are so quick to criticize.
LearnerAugust 22, 2014
Thanks for this great article, professor Ogden. I am very dubious about this book, especially about the negative affect is has on people. Revelations from the Spirit always edify. Does this book? Satan will tell 100 truths to get you to swallow one poisonous lie.
SandyAugust 17, 2014
I found the experiences in the book Visions of Glory very helpful in many ways. Although I did not die and go beyond the veil, I have had several dreams and yes some very distinct visions about certain future events. In short I saw the same or similar things only on a much smaller scale and in a more localized area in Utah. It was refreshing when I received a second testimony. It brought a certain amount of clarity to what I experienced, after reading the details of what Sister Rowe and 'Spencer' saw. Although I have shared most of what I saw with immediate family I didn't disclose much of the detail as I was told not to. I wanted to deliver the message I was allowed to share for the purpose of how we could prepare as a family. We also need to be of assistance to those around us. Interesting to note my Patriarchal Blessing spoke of this very thing but I didn't understand it at first. Now... my question to you? If Charles Evans the Springville Patriarch's vision and that of many others was published, why not this young lady or for that matter "Spencer"? There is entirely TOO much finger pointing and discussion on what other people should or shouldn't do. It seems everyone has an opinion on everyone else's lives. It's NONE of our business. We're not the ones receiving their promptings by the Spirit. We would all do well to pay attention to our lives and those of our family members. In other words we should all be content to correct our shortcomings instead of making comments about others. Methinks there are many who are a bit envious of that fact these authors have had the privilege or curse (as they might say) to view such events. Some declare....It must not have happened because the Lord didn't show ME these visions. Tread lightly people. Before you speak (or post) ask yourselves, 'Is it true, Is it necessary, and/or Is it derogatory?
DarcyAugust 12, 2014
To Jo Budro. The earth changes drastically during an earthquake of such magnitude. Heights and depths will not be the same as they are now.
Marilyn DeGanneAugust 4, 2014
Dear Brother Ogden,
I have both of your commentaries on the Old Testament and love them. Thank you for writing them.
Joe BudroJuly 31, 2014
Brother "Spencer" says he was washed down North Temple to the old Union Pacific Depot. "The train station was flooded by about a foot of water, which went down by a few inches as the hours passed. (p. 122) Later he says "the temple had been flooded about twenty-five feet deep . . . the old Tabernacle was gone." (p. 128)
How can it be possible for the depot to be under only one foot of water when the depot's elevation is almost 100 feet lower than Temple Square which was under 25 feet of water?
"I decided to make my way back . home. ... my journey took three full days because of the devastation. ...I probably walked twenty miles to cover five." (pp 122-123) "Spencer" is now around 64 years old, if the big earthquake doesn't hit for another ten years or so, he'll be somewhat elderly. Would a a senior citizen spend three days walking to a house that he already knows is "no longer habitable"?
GregJuly 21, 2014
I read the book and found that I was inspired and motivated afterward in a clean and pure way to be more like my Father in Heaven and to focus on coming to Zion in a more urgent manner.
I agree that there are several things that are inconsistent and/or incorrect from a doctrinal standpoint. I don't see the big hangup here. I don't put the same level of literal doctrinal requirements on several other methods of teaching and visions that are true and inspired. For instance, a pre-mortal Peter, James and John aren't able to physically shake hands with Adam according D&C 129:4-8 but I don't get hung up there and miss the real lesson being taught.
I have family members who have loved this book and others that have been offended by it (though most didn't read the book before becoming offended). I found the reading of this book to be something that provided me a grander vision of myself, others and the Plan of our Salvation. The parts that are true and relevant to me have inspired me and have accompanied well my study and application of the word of God found in the scriptures and from the ordained leaders of the church.
BrianJuly 4, 2014
Many comments are negative on here. Everyone must understand that 'Spencer' states heavily that this is not doctrine! He is not claiming to receive revelation for the Church. He is not trying to mislead anyone. This book is not a revelation of what will happen, or how it will happen; it is as the cover indicates ONE MAN'S astonishing account of the last days. You all must understand that. It is not scripture and does not claim to be. Read it for enjoyment, or food for thought.
JORGE RIOSJuly 2, 2014
I want to said to John, Terry and specialy to Spencer Thanks a lot for this book that is a real treasure for me and many that we feel the spirit of true in there. I love this book and his so powerful teachings.
And thanks Good to led us now those in this especific time.
MaryJune 29, 2014
I have been a seeker of truth all of my life and have read the B.O.M. and the standard works almost daily since I was a young girl. Even as a teenager, I would devour gospel doctrine literature
TeresaJune 24, 2014
We hear about the sealed protion of the Book of Mormon. I have read all these comments and realize why Joseph was told not to translate that part. Because those who have the spirit will hear what they need to from revelation. Those who don't have the spirit will treat it like the Savior was treated my the Jews. I now understand why Isaiah, Nephi, Jacob, and the many others including the brotheren have never given us the details of the last days. Or should I say moments.
My response to this book is "Watch"
CharlesJune 10, 2014
Although I absolutely agree with the latterday prophetic advice to with-hold sharing sacred experiences, we do find that our dear prophet Joseph Smith Jr did not himself concerning the sacred plates nor the First Vision experience. Perhaps the two circumstances are different. What I can personally testify is that the Holy Scriptures and latterday prophetic voices, with the Holy Spirit's guidance, are clear and more powerful in word and the Spirit of the truths ahead for all of God's children. I have not read any firm doctrine in these types of books that I have not read in those scriptures. It almost seems we need to be spoon feed the word of God and look for the readers digest version of it in books of this nature. I am not completely critical of such personal writings but agree with following the Lord's path and order of the priesthood. The Book of Mormon clearly prophesies the end of times for America, The Holy Bible interlaces prophecy for the end of times for the rest of the world. We have been commanded to walk with the Holy Spirit by obedience and faith and to follow the living Prophet. I like the simple path, plain and true.
ChuckJune 10, 2014
Dear friends, I'm thankful to John and Spencer for acting on the promptings they had to write this book. I have read it multiple times appreciate Spencer carefully pointing out that he is not making any attempt to convey his experiences as doctrine or revelation to the church. The book repeatedly reinforces that we should look to the general authorities both now and in the future. This is a beautiful book that has allowed me to contemplate for myself some of the interesting experiences he has had. I am always grateful for such opportunities.
KevinJune 3, 2014
Responding to the last paragraph that the Lord will only enlighten his people through the Prophet:
(as taken from lds.org on Revelation)
The scriptures tell of different types of revelation, such as visions, dreams, and visitations by angels. Through such channels, the Lord has restored His gospel in the latter days and revealed many truths.
GregJune 2, 2014
I appreciated the article written by D. Kelly Ogden in the importance of making sure that the ways of God and doctrines come through the proper channels and are consistent with already received revelations and commandments.
I also very much appreciated reading this book because of the things that I learned from the Spirit but during the reading of this book as well as when I was studying the gospel. For me, this book wasn't a doctrinal or even accurate representation of anything but I felt inspired by a few things that have lead me to be more like the Savior in real and tangible ways. I desire to seek the Lord's will for me rather than what I would imagine or expect. I have a greater desire to study the gospel from the scriptures and the living prophets with more intent on becoming like the Savior. I feel a greater desire and purpose in "coming unto Zion" right now in my life. And I feel even more interested in learning directly through the spirit rather than from others what the Lord would have me do, know and be.
If this book purported to be doctrine or scripture, I'd feel very differently about it. In fact, some of the sensational reaction to this book is probably inappropriate. It felt more like reading the journal of somebody and their spiritual experiences which were designed for them.
If there is any doubt, put the book down and read the words of Christ in the scriptures and from the living prophets. This should not be a substitute for such in any way.
That is just my 2 cents.
BrianMay 27, 2014
My story shows the dangers of this kind of book.... A well liked cousin of mine gave my aged father a copy of this book last year, since then he has become obsessed with it. He will turn 85 this fall if he makes it. He is, we believe in the beginning stages of dementia. He has read the book 5 times and given underlined dedicated copies to a couple dozen family and friends. He has told multiple family members that he is not going to die and has destroyed all his copies of funeral arrangements he can locate and asserts that the big earthquake will happen this October. He lives with my sister and her family, a few days ago he wrote a very angry letter to his wife who lives a few miles away by herself and brought up things that happened 20-50 years ago and stated he would never talk to her again and did not even want to see her ever again. They have had their issues but had been getting along the best I could ever remember until a few weeks ago. He and my cousin say that the book has been endorsed by Pres. Monson because my cousin saw it advertised during General Conference. My father is lucid most of the time but we fill we have already lost him because of his obsession with the book and it's soon to be fulfilled prophecies. Even when he is having a good day it is all he wants to talk about or discuss. I do not know what the motivations of the author or person who experienced it are, I just see the effects of it on my family and friends.
ArtMay 23, 2014
I read the book. It's science fiction, pure and simple. So many things wrong with it - read the review about it on FairMormon by Dr. Gregory Smith, MD. I think most people who are caught up by it are seeking to know when events surrounding the second coming will take place and what they will be like. In my opinion, you're more likely to get closer to the truth by watching Star Wars than reading this stuff. Philosophies of men mingled with scripture, pure and simple.
RebeccaMay 19, 2014
(Note: I am adding to a previous comment here) The fact that "Spencer" chooses to reveal in this book that his own wife, whom he is supposed to love and honor, perishes in this great flood is very telling to me. It speaks of the fact that despite having advanced degrees, and also supposedly having great spiritual insight, he doesnt have the slightest clue how to treat the closest members of his own family. Putting fear into the hearts and minds of his own wife and children? Come on! This is not a healthy way to "focus on the family" or put his wife and chiildren first in his life. No where in the book does he state he is frantic over wondering where they are after the great disaster. I would be out of my mind with worry over my spouse and every child. You wouldn't be able to hold me back from crawling to Florida on my knees if needed, to learn what had become of them! And this is a man that is supposed to have a great capacity to love? Sorry. Doesn't ring true to me.
CatherineMay 17, 2014
Visions of Glory has only increased my testimony of the gospel. People comment on how we should be reading the scriptures and praying and listening to the prophet to draw closer to the Lord. Who says we are not doing that? I have read the Book of Mormon more times then I can count. I read the Bible. I pray constantly, and listen to the Prophet and apostles. This book is just additional information that confirms to me the truthfulness of Gods plan. And for those that say "Spencer" shouldn't be speaking of his revelations without permission from God or the proper authority. Who say's he hasn't gotten permission? We are not privy to all of his private dealings. He specifically said for 40 years he did not speak about his revelations. He only did so when the Lord told him it was time. Do you remember the scripture that says that in the last days Men, Women, and children will have revelation poured out unto them. Folks, it is the last days... You will all be hearing more and more about these revelations and prophecies. Open your mind and heart to the spirit of revelation. Remember all of the examples in the scriptures of those who would not listen because they did not hear it from God's lips alone. Many were destroyed. It is time to wake up.
JoshMay 15, 2014
2 Nephi 28:16:
Wo unto them that turn aside the just for a thing of naught and revile against that which is good, and say that it is of no worth! For the day shall come that the Lord God will speedily visit the inhabitants of the earth; and in that day that they are fully ripe in iniquity they shall perish.
Acts 5:38-39: And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.
I could say more, but I think I've said enough.
Grace RexMay 14, 2014
In seminary when I was young our teacher taught us that "hit pigeons flutter" meaning when hunting only the pidgin that gets hit will flutter its wings and fall to the ground. I too am reading this book and find it disturbing. It is disturbing because I am like one of those hit pidgins. Am I ready for the second coming? Do I have food storage or am I spending all my money on things that don't really matter? Are my thoughts clean enough that anyone can hear them with out me being embarrassed? Since "Spencer" doesn't claim to be receiving revelation for the church or anyone else I can't see how he is doing anything contrary to any commandment.
I am completely amazed by many of the comments on this site. For a people who are supposedly trying to be Christlike some are being very unkind to a man who only wanted to share a sacred experience once he was told it was time. Please be kind. I don't know "Spencer" or John Pontius or their families, but my thoughts and prayers are with them. With brothers/sisters/friends like some of you...who needs enemies.
GaryMay 13, 2014
This book is really good. It changed me, wanting to be a better person. I doesn't offer revelation or doctrine. Many people on this forum want to expose Spenser and wonder why he is being anonymous. After reading all the crud people are posting about him, it is no wonder why he wants to be anonymous. I am glad he had the courage to write it and the author to publish it. How can this book turn people away from the gospel? It makes me want to read the scriptures more, go to the temple more and be more serious about who I am. Crazy stuff, huh?!?!?!
Kissy RichMay 13, 2014
I love the scriptures! I love the Gospel! I love the prophet and the General Authorities! I know God lives and Jesus is the Savior. I ground myself in a testimony of Jesus Christ and when I hear or find something that causes others to doubt, I go back to the teachings of the Savior and the scriptures to "hold to the rod". With all that said, I loved this book! It inspired me to be better, to think more often of the Savior and spiritual things. I found myself driving to work and thinking, "We are so close to spiritual things if we just keep our mind focused on spiritual things...and not the day-to-day things." I would then drive home and think, "How often did I think of the Savior? Did I really, "Alway have His spirit...with me" today? The sacrament I take each week directs me to do so. Reading the scriptures and praying everyday helps me focus more on the Savior and the spirit. This book did not detract from that. This book actually caused me desire to work more earnestly towards having the Savior's spirit with me...to read more of the scriptures...to try and prepare myself to be an instrument for good in God's hands...to judge less and love more. When you find something that adds to your belief in the Savior and heads you towards the Savior's words, then I am all for it. There is music and artwork that tends to have me think more of the Savior. Those things didn't come from prophets, they came from people inspired to share. I have never, and will never look at this book as scripture. But, it did head me more towards my beloved Book of Mormon and the other standard works. Anyone reading this post, please reflect on a time you shared a personal "revelation" or experience that increased your testimony. This is exactly what "Spencer" is doing. Lastly, if we, as Saints and followers of Christ, wait for all our instruction, learning, and guidance to come from the Prophet only, we will surely be lost if there is ever a time in our lives when we need personal revelation, or the words of the prophet can't be heard because of worldly situations. It is imperative our testimonies and knowledge and "practice" of personal revelation is in place. My desire to make sure I am following my priesthood leaders, the counsel of the Prophet and the words of the scriptures was deeply increased by reading this book.
GaryMay 8, 2014
Nothing about the claim that this is real prophecy rings true to me. I don't know if the other references in the book are true either though. Anything about the end of the world is going to stress me out however -- true, or untrue. If it would have been a book of fiction, I would have thought it was great. That being said, anything like it would be hard to swallow -- just because it is about the end of the world. Earthquakes, a plague, nuclear attacks, invasions from evil powers. If it really was true visions, the question becomes from whom? Or maybe he was just crazy.
Paul D HarveyMay 5, 2014
After posting my comments on this material, I have read and found that most of the reviews are objectionable. People who think this book is inspirational, it is best they re-read the Book of Mormon and pay particular attention to those who tried to deceive the people with Priest Craft. It is very scary. In the last April 2014 Conference the Brethren and our Prophet warned us that it will be too easy to be deceived in these last days. I am sorry that John Pontius become so gullible to make a buck. I have never read any of his other works and from the type of book he last published might be good warning to avoid any of his other books. However, this "Spencer" person needs to be exposed and brought to stand to account for this masterful fraud. I am grateful for the Scriptures and for a Prophet of the Lord on the Earth today.
Paul D HarveyMay 5, 2014
After posting my comments on this material, I have read and found that most of the reviews are objectionable. People who think this book is inspirational, it is best they re-read the Book of Mormon and pay particular attention to those who tried to deceive the people with Priest Craft. It is very scary. In the last April 2014 Conference the Brethren and our Prophet warned us that it will be too easy to be deceived in these last days. I am sorry that John Pontius become so gullible to make a buck. I have never read any of his other works and from the type of book he last published might be good warning to avoid any of his other books. However, this "Spencer" person needs to be exposed and brought to stand to account for this masterful fraud. I am grateful for the Scriptures and for a Prophet of the Lord on the Earth today.
JeffMay 4, 2014
I found the book extremely powerful in leading people to Christ. There is nothing in the book I found deceptive or self promoting in anyway. I highly recommend reading it. Even if metaphorical for Spenser only, it is a wonderful read, and as I believe, it is much more than that. You will find it a powerful book of one mans personal experiences, that will change your life forever.
Paul D. HarveyMay 2, 2014
Kelly, I posted a review on the book and will put it on this website. As Follows:
Don't waste your money on this book. A neighbor recommended this book and after I finished it, I become so ill and had a bad feeling about this so-called out-body-experience, I tore it up and thru it in the trash. I do not recommend this book to anyone. I noted some things about this material: 1) the man named Spencer, is supposedly a sickly person, 2) many of the things he relates about his so-called experience is in direct conflict with many doctrines of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. 3) The man states in his experience that he has no insurance for his many medical problems and my awareness of the many things he relates contradict too much. This is a clue he is profiting his experience to pay his medical bills. 4) This is a real attempt for this Spencer to "set himself up as a light to the world." And 5) This sounds too much like the case of Mark Hoffman who was exposed as a fraud in the 1980's. Mark also murdered some people who knew he was a fraud for trying to deceive the leadership of the LDS Church about some new found documents from Mormon Pioneer days.
This is what I feel about this book. He may have had experiences about some things but this is just too wrong for some reason. I wrote a scathing rebuke to the publisher and can't recommend this material to anyone. I got physically ill and a very bad feeling about this material. IT ISN'T WORTH YOUR MONEY.
MargeneApril 30, 2014
I was greatly touched by this book. My own father has had visions and dreams he shared with us kids. He talking about things beyond the veil - in a sacred manner - and that is something I am familiar with and love studying. Many things rang true to me and several times reading parts of this book I felt the Spirit. I had several "aha" moments - probably because he touched on things I have studied and wondered about myself - so many things fit together like a puzzle for me. There are places I wept while reading and other times I felt great joy. I know it's not a topic for everyone, and it doesn't inspire everyone who reads it. But I do believe that God does reveal his mysteries to us as we seek them. It has strengthened my testimony and made me feel closer to my Savior and excited for things to come. It has added to my already heightened feeling to be getting prepared, spiritually and temporally for things that are coming.
PS - I remember when Betty Eadie's book "Embraced by the light" came out over two decades ago. Everyone either loved her book or questioned it. Her experience was very comprehensive and amazing. (although VofG supasses that now). She went around doing firesides at school auditoriums - I went to one even. My family and I loved her book and were very inspired by it. However, she got attacked and nitpicked with nearly everything she wrote by some people - and someone even published a book called "Embarrassed by the Light" going over everything she shared attempting to discredit it by quotes and scripture (their own interpretation of it) and blatantly making fun of her experience. I can certainly understand Spencer's reluctance to have this published and why he chose to be anonymous.
JeanApril 29, 2014
I read this book because it was designated as our ward book club reading. I am a return missionary, and have taught missionaries. John Pontius has leaked his personal information to church members via hard core publishing and although his intentions may have been good, the information in this book is sensationalistic. The content tangents readers off from the gospel of Christ to the adrenaline inducing cataclysmic finale of the second coming. I found many parts of it uncomfortable, graphic, and self-promoting. I found it hard to sleep many nights after reading it, and have made a stronger resolve to read the scriptures and turn to personal prayer. This doesn't mean Visions of Glory turned me to Christ. Rather, it nudged me away from sappy, sensational material and toward the true core of Christ's message. I know many people in the church who self-soothe with certain tangents of gospel doctrine, whether that be the 10 tribes, life after death experiences, calling and election, and so forth. When I hear them talk it always sounds a little sci-fi and with the tone of "we are in the know." This is exactly how this book came across to my heart and I am very relieved to see many in this post use a bit of logic and sensibility as the Pied Piper comes along leading the way to "Zion."
JohnApril 6, 2014
I felt the spirit in reading the book. I read it twice more and gained even more from it. It makes me want to be a better person and reduces my apprehension as to the latter day events. It really changed my perspective. Read the introduction carefully. Spencer kept the experiences private for many years. He revealed them at a time he was instructed to. It made me want to prepare NOW. I don't think this kind of thing could ever come through official church channels. Interesting about Deseret Book deciding not to sell in in their stores. However, Deseret Book owns Seagull Book and Visions of Glory is a huge seller for them. They had hundreds of copies in their St. George store last summer. VOG is also sold in the BYU Bookstore. Nothing in VOG detracts from the messages of the prophets and apostles. This was in my view a book for those who had "ears to hear". If it came through the apostles and prophets the questions would never stop and the Church would be held up for ridicule. I am grateful for Spencer and John Pontius having the courage to publish this material. Having said all of the above, we must read the scriptures and keep our eyes on the prophet and the apostles.
AnonymousApril 4, 2014
I have I have felt several different emotions come over me as I have read through some of the comments posted - all I can think to say would be this...
To the dear widow Sister Pontius, God bless you and your family through your trials and saddening times. I truly believe your husband, along with all the other individuals whom have posted on this blog, are genuinely good and noble individuals who seek to serve the Savior - we all know there is no greater goal in this life than to know Christ.
Secondly, I hope no one has replaced this literature over their daily scripture studying, and I'll bet the author wanted it to be the same exact way.
Lastly, if we're worried about the last days, I would hope we would turn to prayer and the scriptures, because we also know there is no replacement for the guiding source of truth found therein.
Take care to all and God bless.
C.J. FisherMarch 31, 2014
I have a great respect for Brother Ogden, as a great scriptorian. I appreciate his willingness to put himself out there to open criticism so that others, like myself, might ponder both sides. There was a similar book out many years back, and it did not do a lot of good. I chose to believe that if God wanted the world to know something, it would come through the Prophet. To each his own.
Darcy HarefeldMarch 26, 2014
Amen to every word that Maureen Olsen said. Thank you Maureen.
Ted SumrallMarch 16, 2014
Who gave Brother Ogden to think on behalf of God? If The Lord told Spencer that he should publish this experience, then he should do so. I have read it through once and am reading it again. No where does he encourage anyone to oppose the Prophet - but quite the contrary. Me thinks the gentleman protests too much.
DWGMarch 9, 2014
I do not understand the comments about this book being "disturbing" or "dangerous". How so? It is clearly stated in the book (more than once) that it is highly personal and NOT doctrine. In no way does the author or Spencer set themselves up as a light to follow. I found nothing in here contrary to revealed doctrine. Several people mentioned it contradicted doctrine- where? Yes sometimes personal revelation is kept personal, but many times individuals are inspired to share an experience at the right time to inspire and uplift others. I know it has happened to me. In "Teachings of Presidents of the Church" Lorenzo Snow- he reveals a highly personal experience to us, and his granddaughter on pages 238-239 which involved seeing the Savior. Should he not have shared that? But it's okay because he's the prophet. After I finished this book I was inspired to be better prepared, go to the temple more often, and become more Christlike. I have no idea how a book that is "dangerous" inspires that kind of feeling. How in any way shape or form does this book lead anyone "astray". I have come to the conclusion that a large number of people critical here of the book have not read it. "Spencer"makes it clear that he only revealed these things when the Spirit said it was right. Otherwise, he kept them to himself.
,
AdamMarch 8, 2014
I loved the book. I am thankful it was published. I feel the messages contained within were provided from a loving Heavenly Father to help us, a very complacent bunch, to prepare for the amazing and terrible things about to take place.
I study the scriptures. I believe there is a common mistake we members of the church make, by thinking all of the destruction will happen somewhere else and to someone else. We don
Terri PontiusMarch 5, 2014
I am John Pontius's widow. I receive questions nearly every day about John's standing in the Church based on some regrettably inaccurate comments by some readers of Kelly Ogden's articles on Visions of Glory. I would like to set the record straight on my husband's character and standing in the Church. My husband was always in good standing with the Church. He held a temple recommend throughout his entire adult life (beginning with his mission). He was always very supportive of the Brethren and the Church. Anyone who has read any of his doctrinal books knows of John's deep commitment to and love for the gospel and of his unwavering support of and for the Church. He was faithful, humble, sincere, believing, devoted Church member to the end.
LisaFebruary 18, 2014
Here's my take. I kept asking the question to myself while reading this book, "Did he really experience this, or was it just a simple dream" Is this really true?" I NEVER have to question the truth of the scriptures, like I did while reading this book. That says A LOT about the validity of this book. Also,,, if we are to know these things, don't you think it would or SHOULD come from the prophet? Excuse my harshness, but... Who is he (Spencer) to put himself above the prophet and church leaders?!?!
StanFebruary 13, 2014
Like several have already commented, Moroni chapter 7 has the very simple formula for making righteous judgment. I have read many NDE accounts, some LDS, most not. Not a single one of them has lead me away from Christ or His Church, quite the opposite. It is possible to take a NDE account and give it too much weight and use it as a foundation for leaving the Church. Same account, completely opposite affects is possible. I understand Bro. Ogden's position. His basic and primary criticisms of this book are that it should not have been written, kept private. First, the Lord commands and revokes. This process has occurred many times in the scriptures and Church History. Second, if Spencer did violate the admonition not to share these experiences then, I believe additional experiences would have ceased. Has that happened? I do not know, it appears not. Third, the possible violation of the admonition not to share in no way diminishes the account. If there was a violation, that will be between Spencer and his Savior. The incident of the lost manuscript in Church History is instructive. The clear mistakes made by Joseph, Martin, and anyone else does not diminish the validity and truefulness of the manuscript. I appreciated this book and the other NDE I have read. I do not believe they violate our doctrine but thankfully validate much of it.
DanFebruary 12, 2014
I'm not sure how my previous post ended up with these errors, but to clarify: I called two Deseret Book stores to ask if they had Visions of Glory in stock. Both said that they do not carry it. I asked the main store in downtown Salt Lake why, and they explained that after it was reviewed, upper management decided not to carry it in stores. Likewise, Deseret Book does NOT make it available for purchase online. They will only let you "special order" it (like any bookstore would do for customers trying to find books they don't carry), but they clearly have chosen with careful deliberation not to promote it, or even stock it.
TomFebruary 10, 2014
I love this book and am grateful to those who made it available.
Tom
Guy SFebruary 4, 2014
As a writer and member of the church, I find it disturbing that John Pontius, no matter how good his intent may be, took it upon himself to "interpret" and divulge sacred doctrines he has not been authorized by the Lord or his duly appointed servants of the First Presidency to share with the world at large. The scriptures and teachings of the prophets make it clear we are not to share some things with others, not publish them for the world which cannot understand and appreciate them. His actions are not far off from those who claim revelation for the church and have no authority to do so, ultimately leading himself and others away from the pure doctrines of the Gospel and into apostasy if care is not taken. It's a good reminder for all of us to be cautious with our enthusiasm over new knowledge received through the spirit that is intended for us alone.
C. DobbsJanuary 31, 2014
This book brought me feelings of comfort & joy; similar to the strength I feel when singing "The Messiah". It felt like I was drinking from a fountain, similar to the way I feel when I study the scriptures & feel closer to our Savior and Father God. I believe many will love reading it; and we should not cause contention over it; but as has been shared, invite the Spirit to guide us. Thanks for the opportunity to comment.
Holly DaknisJanuary 30, 2014
I found "Visions of Glory" to be a heart-felt answer to my prayers. The author was clear to repeatedly point out that the account was his experiences, that it was not doctrine for the church, that there were metaphorical parts to it, and that he finally felt at peace to share what he had kept inside of him for so long. Bless Spencer and John Pontius for their arduous task in putting words to paper in such a way that many have been strengthened in the message of God's love for us, we are NOW preparing to be in the presence of the Lord/Zion if we will allow ourselves to be, and that we need not fear but be of good cheer in the workings of the Lord. As a convert of many decades I cried while reading some of Spencer's accounts as I have had some similar ones myself, but never would have been able to describe them as beautifully and accurately as John did. I had prayed about and studied the scriptures for years for a clearer understanding on how the last days would or could come to pass, and "Visions of Glory" helped frame up my understanding and remove fears. I came away with a truly sweet peace about the marvelous works and purposes of the Lord in the last days that I did not have prior to reading the book. "Visions of Glory" did not take away from my testimony of God, Christ, the Restored Gospel, Priesthood authority, Prophets -- it was an answer to my prayers for a better understanding of how the latter-days might unfold, and I am now much more at peace inside with the processes of the Lord. I cheerfully and thankfully raise my hand as "guilty" -- the book was written and published for me. Thanks John and Spencer! Most Sincerely, Sister Holly Daknis
M JJanuary 27, 2014
I also agree with and appreciate the words of Maureen Olson and Jerald L Erickson as well as Sister Terri Pontus. I have met Spencer and know persons who know him well, that he is without guile. I also appreciate Curt's testimony of him.
Lacey ArchibaldJanuary 27, 2014
I just would like to say that we all are at different spiritual levels, and that some people aren't ready to read this book. So pray about it before reading it. I however, found this book to be amazing and I look forward to the future. I read the scriptures as well and just finished reading the book of Revelations and it all makes since to me now. We are told in the scriptures that anyone that has been warned, to warn his neighbor.
Michael MansfieldJanuary 27, 2014
After reading Dr. Ogden's article, the FAIR book review, and the comments above, I believe that there are generally two ways to look at "Visions of Glory." One, as a story or parable to explain to other how to live their life, or Two, as the sharing of a very personal experience. I personally believe that the sharing of personal experiences helps to build a Zion Society. I did not feel that the sharing of Spencer's experience was meant by Brother Pontius or Spencer to promote to others a pathway or revelation for others. I do not detect the markings of Priestcraft - as indicated in some of the comments above. I simply felt that the story was shared as one man's personal experience. Some experiences shared confirmed my own beliefs, others stretched my understanding, and others stretched my understanding. I don't have an expectation that all of Spencer's experiences will become my experiences - or the experiences of anyone else - since I believe that we all walk pathways designed for us by a loving Father. I, for one, feel blessed to have had Spencer's story shared - since I do not look to it for any interpretation of Gospel Doctrine. No seer stone in this story that I am aware of. I also don't believe that its publication has brought Spencer any personal promotion or financial reward. I trust it for what it is - the sharing of a very personal experience. I am grateful when anyone opens themself up to such examination by others.
RachelJanuary 26, 2014
We read the book as it was a gift. I didn't feel a particularly bad feeling; in this country people have the freedom to write and publish anything they want. I respect that right. Unfortunately, two aspects of this book really bother me: the author withholding his name and the description of him as a Spirit being asking permission to enter another's body. I love to think about my family members on the other side. I do not believe the righteous spirits have power to enter another's body and know their thoughts, feelings and experiences.
BruceJanuary 26, 2014
I have two concerns about Brother Ogden's objections. First, we would not have much of the scriptures and none of Joseph Smith's First Vision is people had been unwilling to share their personal spiritual experiences with us. Second, I have been in the meetings prior to endowment sessions in the temple where the speakers proceeded to give their personal interpretations of the symbols and meanings of the ordinance we were about to participate in. If this is wrong, why are we holding these meetings? I have thoroughly disagreed with some of the interpretations presented there, but they are presented as authoritative. Would love to hear your answer.
DawnJanuary 25, 2014
I read the book with a prayerful heart, seeking to know truth. I can honestly say that I felt, through more pages than not, the 'burning within', a manifestation of truth and the righteous intent of Spencer and of John Pontius. Sometimes fear can rule over faith. Perhaps there is too much controversy that is tending stir up unnecessary disputation. Each person can decide on their own with the help from the spirit...
Carol BriidgesJanuary 25, 2014
Brother Ogden, I very much appreciate the time and effort you put into this article. I hadn't heard of this book before, but i would probably not have read it anyway.
Personal revelation is supposed to be exactly that- personal. When someone tells all and sundry about it, you immediately know that the Adversary is affecting their judgment. In my opinion, that makes everything they say about their revelation a bit suspect, since I know their judgment is at least a bit off, even though they may have good intentions.
candy LeflerJanuary 25, 2014
I agree whole heartedly. I thought the same scriptures when I was given the book to read.
Greg WrightJanuary 24, 2014
I find it interesting that so many people are defensive of the stewardship of the brethren when it comes to guiding us through the deceptions of the world and yet the brethren have not warned us about the deceptions of Visions of Glory. They are well informed. It is inconceivable that they are unaware of it. If it is that big of a problem, why haven't the brethren addressed it? And the argument that Spencer had no right or authority to share his experience does not invalidate the possibility that he had an experience. Besides he said he shared it with John Pontius when the Lord gave him permission to do so. How do we know that the Lord did not give him permission? The fact that Spencer isn't an Apostle doesn't mean he could not have been given a message and been told to publish a book about it. Not all inspiration comes through Apostles. Was Samuel the Lamanite an Apostle?
Kelly Ogden is right that our foundation for doctrines should be the scriptures. But "Visions" didn't declare that the things taught to him were doctrines that any of us should be obligated to. He just told us what he experienced. We are free to reject any of it. The scriptures don't contain all truths. In fact they tell us that there are many eternal truths beyond our ability to understand at this time. So we should not be surprised that people who visit the spirit world get educations above and beyond what this mortal world can offer. The brethren are free to correct any false ideas that come from such books and they occasionally do when false beliefs take us in the wrong direction. But what direction does "Visions" direct us to do? I got the impression that the most important thing we could do is be faithful and learn to listen to the Spirit, something the brethren are constantly telling us. I also got the impression that storing more food might be a good idea, also something the brethren have been telling us for decades. So where is the harm in preparing for disaster and being more sensitive to the Spirit?
DHJanuary 23, 2014
My heart goes out to Sister Pontius. We all know we are past due for a major earthquake. When one occurs, what do we think may happen? Yes, I found 'Spencer's' accounts disturbing--just as I will find a major earthquake disturbing (if it happens in my lifetime and if I live through it). Therefore, this book left me with a renewed dedication to living as the best person I can and as close to the Spirit as I can. "All of this puts me in mind of a quotation often attributed to either Martin Luther or St. Francis: 'If the world were going to end tomorrow, I would plant a tree today.' I
HollyJanuary 23, 2014
A Gallup poll states that over 13 million people in the U.S. have experienced a near death experience. Many of them have kept the experience to themselves FOR YEARS for fear of being labeled "crazy" or being castigated for what they saw. As resuscitation technology increases, undoubtedly many more people could experience the phenomena of separating from their physical body and then being returned to it. Two respected surgeons (Mary Neal, MD, and Eben Alexander MD) who experienced resuscitation after clinical death have documented their experience in books which have been on the best seller list, as well as being featured on Anderson Cooper's televised special on life after death. In 1975 Raymond Moody, MD published one of the first books on his own near death experience, "Life After Life," . NDE's cut across all segments of society and are found in all faiths. Many of them have reported "visions" of things that would happen in their future life, as in "Fast Lane to Heaven." Their message is the same- WE ARE LOVED and SERVE OTHERS. People want to know what happens when they die. That's all about the plan of happiness. That's why these people share their stories with us. They are loving messengers. We live in a great time! It's just like foretold in Joel 2:28-32.
Come on people,
LOVE ONE ANOTHER :D
DanJanuary 22, 2014
It turns out that the person who told me that Deseret Book had begun selling this book was mistaken. I just called two stores to ask if they had it in stock. Both said that they do not carry it. I asked the main store in downtown Salt Lake why and they explained that when it was reviewed, upper management decided not to carry it stores. Likewise, Deseret Book does make it available for purchase online. You can only "special order" it (like any bookstore would do for customers looking for books they don't carry), but they clearly have chosen not to promote it or even stock it.
RonJanuary 22, 2014
I trust we will not get too divided on this book. There are many other authors in the church who have written books containing accounts of perhaps spiritual truths or happenings. Whether or not they are true is not to be left to the author nor the reader to decide. Moronic 10:5, "And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things" is where all should look for their personal confirmations. After all your personal relationship with God is paramount here. If God tells you it is true it may be that that truth you are prepared for; perhaps another is not. I would however stress that the prophet and apostles are first, then the scriptures in my hierarchy of confidence in church statements, experiences, and guidance.
Edward FairchildJanuary 22, 2014
The doctrinal idea that "God exists outside of time and can move back and forth through the construct of time" is contrary to doctrine as I understand it. Brigham Young, John Taylor, B.H. Roberts, and John Widtsoe have all indicated that God lives within the universe and time as we perceive it. Our time is part of eternity. Joseph Smith indicated that the past, present, and future are all before God, that does not mean that he is not planted in a specific time just like the rest of us, just as his physical body exists in one specific location just like the rest of us.
KevinJanuary 22, 2014
For a church full of members that all joined because of personal revelation from God, and frequently share that revelation over the pulpit, I'm surprised at the large number of brothers and sisters that take a few quotes (out of context) to castigate the authors. As Terri Pontius stated, this book was one man's account - authorized by the Spirit - to share. Just as readily as the author of this article did, we could easily find as many quotes from prophets telling us to seek the face of The Lord, to be led by the Spirit and do whatever it tells us, to seek to be prophets ourselves ("I would that all were prophets"). I personally came to know my Saviour through this path this book shows and am troubled that someone would take the time to publically turn readers away because someone is sharing their testimony that revelation continues, The Lord prepares His people, and that we have brothers and sisters who are experiencing the great blessings of the Gospel. The final pages of the Book of Mormon warn against those who don't.
DonnaJanuary 21, 2014
When I read this book it did not turn me off. In the long run, I think the measure ofa book or a person has to be its fruits.. Take it or leave it. For some - it will uplift
them and strengthen their love of God - for others it will not. Over and over again the men involved in this book assured us that they were not not pretending to be General Authorities to be the last word on Church doctrine, but were doing their best to share something that they hoped would increase our faith and our love of the gospel and help us to understand -- for one thing, the gathering in the latter days. If you have ever had a spiritual experience then you know that in some ways they are often difficult to interpret, and I felt that the writer here did a very good job in striving to put into words what
Bruce GilbertJanuary 21, 2014
Judgement is meant for identification and not condemnation. Too, there is irony in finding fault with fault finders; therefore I shall forebear. One should ask themselves why would somebody share a personal experience of such nature? Without discernment and knowledge it is difficult to ascribe such motives. Shouldn't we assume the best ones? Such is the case of those who have charity. I have read the book and didn't feel threatened by it. It was and remains shelved in the back of my mind as "possibility." I am grateful for the opportunity to read. Too, I am grateful for testimonies. I have heard "Spencer's" voice via a recorded interview. There is no guile there.
Jim January 21, 2014
what I see in this article is simply men reasoning with men. The easiest way to know if John Ponitus and Spencer were commanded to publish the book is just ask Heavenly Father. Done!
ShaunaJanuary 21, 2014
I appreciate Maureen Olson's words and fully concur.
Sharon January 21, 2014
My mother who is 93 years old has had some spiritual experiences which, to her and her family have been very revealing and sacred. During these last remaining years of her life, she believes her story might be of some worth in bringing peace and comfort to others who have experienced some of the same types of grief and hardship she has endured. There are many gifts of the Spirit, and we all have our own special gifts. My mother has the gift of discernment. I believe that Mr. Pontius was given this gift also as a means to encourage, uplift, and teach others; and his book was meant to do exactly that. We are living in a time when we need all the encouragement we can get, both from the Gospel of Jesus Christ and from each other. We are told in the scriptures that in the last days, young men shall have visions and old men shall dream dreams. Nowhere in the scriptures does it say that those visions and dreams are limited to only our Prophet and Church authorities. They are for anyone who has the need for a special witness and is living righteously enough to obtain those blessings. They are also given to build our testimonies and to stengthen and help others. It took a great deal of faith and courage for Brother Pontius to take such a chance; to be willing to possibly be doubted; I'm certain he knew he would be inviting criticism from those he only intended to uplift. Indeed, we all need to be more valiant; to garner the strength to be willing to share our spiritual experiences and to raise our voices in defense of the truth. To do this is becoming more important with every passing day. This may be a large part of our purpose here on earth. I'm grateful for the courage and talent of this insightful man.
Julie WoodJanuary 21, 2014
I am concerned to read from fellow members of the Church some of the hateful comments I have read.
I personally know John and Teri Pontius, and this name calling and attacking of such a wonderful man is totally without merit. If ever there was a more charitable and Christ like man, I would be hard pressed to personally know him. John loved the Savior. He followed his teachings to the very end. His depth of the scriptures was deep. He knew what he was writing, "Spencer's Account of what he experienced."
I am acquainted with "Spencer". He also is a gentle giant. He is well educated, soft spoken and without guile. He has no reason to fabricate anything, he saw what he saw.
I know the story behind this book. Many of you have misspoken. Leave it alone. If you don't agree with it, leave it alone. Don't crucify these men; they are and were faithful in their memberships, and in their personal lives. They are and were true disciples of Christ.
John's wife Teri, is equally faithful in her discipleship in Christ. She is truly a wonderful woman. We would all benefit by being as kind as these three individuals are and were.
I fear Brother Ogden your critique has incited the worst behavior in some of the comments that have be made, and that you probably didn't intend for this to get so out of hand.
ScottHJanuary 21, 2014
A fellow I know experienced some faith challenges a few years back after reading several "LDS-ish" visionary books. He finally visited with his bishop about his concerns. The bishop, a down to earth farmer, asked my friend how studiously he had been studying his scriptures and church lessons and how he was doing with his personal and family prayers. My friend admitted that he could be doing better in most of these areas.
"The problem," said the bishop, "is that you're doing too much drinking downstream. The stream is most pure where it bursts from the rock. It's less so after it has run through a few pastures where the cattle roam."
The bishop's point was not that one should never seek for truth beyond church approved sources (scriptures, prophetic statements, church curriculum, prayer, the Holy Ghost), but that one should make sure that these sources are the primary and strong base of one's spiritual foundation before venturing into other realms. The Spirit can bear witness of truth regardless of where that truth may be found. But the purer the source, the easier this process is.
GreatscotJanuary 21, 2014
Whenever I hear people say they should read the scriptures instead of a certain book, I have to ask whether that means I shouldn't read any book except scriptures. If so, it would then follow that I shouldn't watch TV or spend time on websites. Yet here we all are. I will read the book and try to listen to the spirit as to the truth of it.
roxanneJanuary 21, 2014
well done article i am reminded of something else - when reading - listen to the Holy Ghost who will tell you the truth of all things. these are final days and we need to be watchful.
JanetJanuary 21, 2014
I was looking forward to reading the book after seeing it advertised, and having previously read brother Pontius' book "Following the Light of Christ into His Presence."
As some expressed, I thoroughly enjoyed the first part, as my own personal spiritual experiences verified what brother Spencer told, but the second part was more difficult to understand, only because I have not yet had the personal experience to relate to it all. Some of it was new and a little questionable to me - because of my lack of experience - so I just let it go, not judging him for what he so clearly remembers and tells, and trusting that the Lord will give me what I am ready to receive when He feels I am ready for it. I would recommend that others do the same. Just read others' experiences for your profit and learning and know that you do not know what others may. And remember not to judge, for 'tis high to be a judge"; maybe the Lord did tell him to publish it. Just let it go.
Jeff WhitlockJanuary 21, 2014
One of the principles of the restored gospel is that those who reveal things from God work in the light, not in a hidden manner. This principle has been reiterated by the leaders of the church a number of times.
Any prophetic vision has always come from an identified prophet - not an anonymous source. That "Spencer" wants to remain anonymous is, to me, a significant red flag since it contradicts this basic principle of gospel knowledge coming through verifiable, well-lit (so to speak) sources.
There are people with significant gifts of spiritual discernment who have concerns about this book. To say that those who have such concerns are not spiritually mature or are not ready for "meat" smacks of a lack of understanding about some very basic principles of the gospel that need to be applied in looking at this book. We're given a number of methods to determine what is true, including the Spirit, prayer, comparison with revealed doctrines, application of gospel principles, our own intellect, witnesses of authorized prophets, etc. When all of those methods come together to confirm something, then we can be sure that there is a high degree of reliability in what we're evaluating.
Unfortunately, Visions of Glory falls short using a number of these methodologies. People misinterpret good feelings when reading the book to apply to the book itself, and not specifically to true concepts it may contain. Inconsistencies contained in the book are glossed over as irrelevant. Clear gospel principles pertaining to church government and stewardship are discarded. Anonymous sources are accepted without question as telling the truth.
This book should not in any way serve as a part of ones testimony or foundation of faith in Jesus Christ or His Church. It certainly can be read out of interest, but as has been noted, too many Latter-day Saints have a tendency to accept faith promoting writings uncritically as gospel truth. Such sandy foundations are a danger in the last days.
TommyJanuary 21, 2014
I read the book and as many have already stated I make it a matter of prayer before I read many of the books I read. Some people have stated that if it isn't written by the "brethren" then it shouldn't be taken seriously. I'm currently reading a book written by Elder David Bednar about increasing our learning. There's a lot to be said for not needing to be commanded in all things. Upon reading Visions of Glory I was energized to be better prepared and to listen more intently to the Spirit. " If there is anything virtuous, lovely or of good report" I seek after these things. Spencer does not claim to be a Prophet, Seer, or Relevator. He is not holding seminars, etc. And, just as a matter of record, Lehi's wife and a couple of his children didn't exactly follow easily.
Spencer (Not the one in the Book)January 21, 2014
I very much agree with Terri Pontius' comment. This book was not scripture, but did uplift me to be a better person, just as the scriptures do. Her comment was this: "I urge all readers to either find spiritual edification in this book, or simply leave it alone as you would any other book that does not speak truth to your soul." I chose to find spiritual edification and I did. I have not lost my testimony of God the Father or in His Son, Jesus Christ or his chosen Prophet Thomas S. Monson. I'm still a strong active member of the Church who follows his called leaders, And I had an very enjoyable read. If you are afaid of losing your testimony or falling away from the Church because of what someone wrote as a personal experience, then don't read this book, or any other books that relate experiences.
Tara HJanuary 21, 2014
In response to Karen's comment, who appears to be the wife of "Steve", Lehi and Nephi had prophetic visions and were instructed to share them. They were prophets. Your husband may have had visions, and they may have had some personal and spiritual significance to him, however, his visions can not be considered "prophetic" by LDS standards, as he is not a prophet. I agree that Heavenly Father can send us personal revelation, however, I agree with DKO that those should be kept personal. As it is, people are now trying to find personal significance in "Steve's" visions and this will only lead people away from the prophets and, therefore, away from Heavenly Father.
Gary RoushJanuary 21, 2014
Terri,
Thanks for sharing your insights and testimony. I was saddened to hear your husband passed away shortly after. I have read the book more than two times so that I can strengthen myself in appreciation of what it takes to become a person prepared for Zion. My family has read the book and found themselves enlightened by it. The other books written by your husband are precious for reading, too. Thanks for being a part of his life and helping him make this possible. To those naysayers and negative remarks who seemed to act like the Pharisees of old, I say to them to wake up and recognize the good in such things, There are many people who have appreciated John's words and I would encourage more people to read these books for their benefit. Such books help the scriptures become more alive in understanding. God bless you.
SheilaJanuary 21, 2014
It amazes me to see all the negative comments, warnings, etc. about this book. I read it and I liked it a lot. The first part was very comforting and enlightening to me. I truly think I am stronger for having read it. The second part, which related to the Second Coming, and the events leading up to it, seemed a bit "out there" to me, and so I just read that part as creative fiction, and let it fade away from my mind. Perhaps there are valuable messages in this book for anyone who is ready to hear; but for others, the way the message is presented, or the timing, are not right for that particular person. That's where the gift of discernment comes in. And to those who castigate "Spencer" for not revealing his real name - the reaction to this article certainly shows why that was a wise decision.
LeeJanuary 21, 2014
Wow, i am so saddened by the persecution of Spencer and John. But i had a feeling it would happen. I agree with all the Pro Visions of Glory comments and i'm sorry there are so few of them but God's children are all on different levels...some are not ready for meat. The book has helped me spiritually in so many ways. As i read my scriptures, Isaiah has become clearer to me...Zion is clearer. I thank my Father in Heaven for Spencer and John and Terri and all those who are like-minded....see you in Zion!! :)
DanielJanuary 21, 2014
I read the article and many of the comments. I have not read the book but I would like to point out three things. 1. I know at least two people who have read it - one who is very well-rounded in the gospel - and well-read, the other may be one of those who may not have finished seminary or read the full Book of Mormon. The results for the first friend is that he suggested I read it - favorably. The other suggested I read it. The result for him was that he came back to church and brought his family with him. One of those things taught in the Book of Mormon is that you can judge something good if it brings someone to Christ and teaches that Jesus is the Son of God. The result for my second friend was that it brought him back to church. That would seem to me then that it is a good book. 2. You may want to read Acts 2:17-18 "17 And it shall come to pass in the last days [our day - 2014], saith God, I will pour out of my cSpirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:" The Lord speaks to all his servants - whether in the church or out of it, whether in high places or low. But if someone is to prophesy, is he or she to prophesy to himself/herself? No. So in this case, this man may be prophesying - and if you are not part of those who are influenced by his prophesying, then don't bash him... Move on. His message is not for you. But "if there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report, or praiseworthy, we seek after these things." I will report to you that this book is of good report. There may be some things in it that you don't agree with, fine. Skip it. That is how things are in this world. You will not find perfection in everything - because our world around us is a mirror of ourselves, but we receive all things in gratitude. 3. As for the book being "authorized" or "unauthorized", what about the brethren and their books? They are just books just as this man's book is his own. If you were to think about that one, the books the brethren write are not authorized either - authorized being canonized scripture. May you all have a beautiful day and do all in your power with your influence to uplift others.
AaronJanuary 21, 2014
Bravo...your words are my thoughts. Thank you.
John RobertsonJanuary 21, 2014
Great summary of doctrinal statements. My only qualm about your article is that while you summarize our doctrine on the matter very well in your list of quotations, you hold off from frankly drawing the conclusion they imply about the book in question, holding instead to words like "concerned". When the statements of the prophets clearly dictated that something is not of God, and many are uncertain, go ahead and make the conclusion their teachings imply without hesitation.
Anyway, great summary of our doctrine on the matter through your quotations. I was familiar with some of them, but others are new and I am thrilled to have them.
V. Blaine CutlerJanuary 20, 2014
Bro Ogden. I personally am grateful for your insight regarding this book. I couldn't agree with your evaluation more. I am a student of the gospel and while I found Visions of Glory very interesting I also found it to be troubling in many Areas.
For me I will always be very cautious in reading books that seem to create or suggest new knowledge that has not previously been revealed through the Lords prophets. For me I will always look to the Lords prophet here on earth. V. Blaine Cutler
Gary January 20, 2014
I have read the book. It has answered questions that i thought about and helped make my answers make more sense. I am thankful he was willing to write such a book. He says he was finally allowed to share what he had learned. I thank him for his courage. It helps me understand what it will take to be worthy of being a part of zion. If any of you don't it out have negative feelings, that's your own to decide. I did not have negative feelings and appreciated it. I did not have any bad feelings about what was written. It also had enabled me to appreciate the scriptures even more.
TomJanuary 20, 2014
To me, a major point of writing the book and releasing the visions given to Spencer was its overall theme of Zion. Perhaps I missed that overall theme in the critique as well as the comment section. That is the theme of John Pontius and his writings. The call to Zion is the call that those who most enjoy the book are hearing. Why should we argue and contend over this book and those like unto it. We each hear our call from God and allow each to hear what God has for them. Indeed we are far from becoming a Zion people.
CurtJanuary 20, 2014
Brother Ogden's article was a thoughtful meditation on a marvelous and thought-provoking book. Many of the negative comments from Meridian readers, however, could have been written by the Pharisees, who ridiculed the Savior's "heretical" teachings. or by the Prophet Joseph Smith's detractors, who accused him of many of the same things of which "Spencer" stands accused, ranging from "priestcraft" to "hallucinations" to "fabrications to sell books." And why? Because he wanted to share his beautiful visions with a Church and world starving for new light. "Scriptures, scriptures, we already have scriptures, why would we want to have the visions promised in the last days?" Do you detractors not believe the scriptures when they say that "children and old men" will receive visions in the latter days?
I know Brother "Spencer," and he is one of the most humble and devoted followers of the Savior on the planet, completely without guile. He is incapable of the unChristian-like things you have dredged up from the deep reservoirs of fear and hatred in your closed hearts and minds.
The last thing Spencer is trying to do is start his own movement or call into question the prophetic wisdom of modern-day prophets.
If you don't like the book, don't read it; you don't have to stone him.
LisaJanuary 20, 2014
Terri Pontius, thank you for posting your comments here. I am with you. This is one of the few non-scriptural books I've read twice because it was so spiritually edifying and I am so grateful to both John and "Spencer" for their courage and obedience in publishing it. It is interesting to me that the commenters here appear to be in one of two camps: follow the prophet or follow the Spirit, with the prophet-followers far outnumbering the Spirit-followers. I know that's not a fair nor entirely accurate summation of people's hearts, but it sure does feel like the Pharisees vs. the Christians. That's what concerns me.
AudreyJanuary 20, 2014
My nephew sent us the book and I read it out loud to my husband during a road trip, so we read it together. It's important to remember this is Spencer's vision, for him. BUT he was given permission to share it with US for a reason. We need to read and take for ourselves what is there for us, and leave the rest behind. My husband and I have continued on to read John Pontius's other books "The Triumph of Zion" which actually blew me away, and my husband has started reading "Following the Light of Christ into his Presence". We would never have gone on to read the other two had it not been for my nephew sending us Visions of Glory first. It was to prepare us for Triumph of Zion and the messages in those 2 books. If you aren't "prepared" to receive the message there won't be a message for you. (These are not the drones you are looking for). Comes to mind.
KarenJanuary 20, 2014
I am a lifetime member, returned missionary, and have sent all of my children on missions. I embrace the gospel but am concerned by our lack of willingness to allow individuals their agency. Why are we so fearful of our members reading a book by another member? One of my favorite authors was recently ex-communicated for expressing his views. I know of many members in significant church callings that have serious sin in their lives. Why can we tolerate pornography and adultery but we can't tolerate someone writing a book expressing their own experiences/thoughts/opinions?
Debra AlmacheJanuary 20, 2014
Every saint should know that if you would receive revelation and were commanded not to reveal or recorded it could you do it and for profit financially without receiving a consequence for the transgressib on or sin. I would Fear from my life and my soul. Which leads me to believe this is pure fraud or deep disrespect for the commands of God and angels.
DanielJanuary 20, 2014
My wife had heard about this book from several people and brought the book home for us to read together. We both stopped reading the book and felt it was not appropriate to read of such spiritual experiences not meant for us and not endorsed by the church or our prophet to print such material. We felt uncomfortable reading it and threw it in the garbage. It was disturbing. I believe in the last days that people and books like this will slowly distract people away from doing those things that are of most importance. This book reminded me of one word. Priestcraft.
MaryannJanuary 20, 2014
A number of years ago I attended a meeting at BYU where Daniel Ludlow was speaking. He told of a survey that was done among the Latter-day saints asking if they had read the Book of Mormon. Brother Ludlow said that the results were very disappointing. I wonder how many people who are so excited about reading questionable and unauthorized accounts have truly studied the Book of Mormon more than once or even once? People who write and have these unauthorized books published have an enormous ego when they suppose for one moment that they are somehow a "spokesman" for the Lord to the public. If we want the highest degree of spiritual enlightenment, we will drink from the pure waters of the words of living prophets and the divine scriptures the Lord has given us. To use questionable sources to shore up our testimonies is to plant ourselves on very sandy soil. How many people who have been carried away by this latest "sensational account" could give a detailed report about the contents of our last General Conference?
Jon GronemanJanuary 20, 2014
After teaching gospel doctrine classes for many years I have found that some people who are seeking easy answers to lifes situations tend to gravitate to these type of books for the easily believable branches off of the main trunk. Unfortunately even the very elect are deceived. I am sure the book is a good read based on its sales, but spiritual things are best kept sacred and shared only when the spirit prompts. I have had many such experiences while serving in the Temple. I don't share them with others. Strengthening ones testimony of the Saviour comes through prayer and scripture study and not by reading a sensational book passed on by a RS President or Ward book group, or any other "member in high standing."
Thanks Kelly
Sue AnnJanuary 20, 2014
Thank you for your insight. I prefer to be taught by the scriptures and those individuals who hold the Priesthood Keys in my behalf. I don't know what Spencer's motive may be but I can trust the motive of my Heavenly Father.
Kay JonesJanuary 20, 2014
Reading all of these comments comforts me in my own feelings. I have read this several times now and feel spiritually edified and peaceful in my own life. I am a life time member, a seasoned seminary teacher, and well educated scholar. I feel for those who do not look at this for what it is, a voice of warning to be able to spiritually stand on your own two feet and not be led by whims of the world. The author seems very well motivated and very undeserving of comments displayed.
Greg WrightJanuary 20, 2014
I find it interesting that so many people are defensive of the stewardship of the brethren when it comes to guiding us through the deceptions of the world and yet the brethren have not warned us about the deceptions of Visions of Glory. They are well informed. It is inconceivable that they are unaware of it. If it is that big of a problem, why haven't the brethren addressed it? And the argument that Spencer had no right or authority to share his experience does not invalidate the possibility that he had an experience. Besides he said he shared it with John Pontius when the Lord gave him permission to do so. How do we know that the Lord did not give him permission? The fact that Spencer isn't an Apostle doesn't mean he could not have been given a message and been told to publish a book about it. Not all inspiration comes through Apostles. Was Samuel the Lamanite an Apostle?
Kelly Ogden is right that our foundation for doctrines should be the scriptures. But "Visions" didn't declare that the things taught to him were doctrines that any of us should be obligated to. He just told us what he experienced. We are free to reject any of it. The scriptures don't contain all truths. In fact they tell us that there are many eternal truths beyond our ability to understand at this time. So we should not be surprised that people who visit the spirit world get educations above and beyond what this mortal world can offer. The brethren are free to correct any false ideas that come from such books and they occasionally do when false beliefs take us in the wrong direction. But what direction does "Visions" direct us to do? I got the impression that the most important thing we could do is be faithful and learn to listen to the Spirit, something the brethren are constantly telling us. I also got the impression that storing more food might be a good idea, also something the brethren have been telling us for decades. So where is the harm in preparing for disaster and being more sensitive to the Spirit?
Lorena HolmsteadJanuary 20, 2014
Bro. Ogden, I have loved your writings ever since my husband and I were at the Jerusalem Center, and we studied from your textbook. I am saddened, therefore, to see you publish this article raising concerns about Visions of Glory because I love this book, and have found it to be an extraordinary gift from Heavenly Father. I have applied Moroni
DanJanuary 20, 2014
For quite a while it seemed this was not available through Deseret Book. To see that they have now chosen to participate in dispensing it to the public sends a mixed signal. I hope they're listening. --- Meanwhile, the first red flag to me was the author's mentioning of an unnamed apostle confidante who allegedly sanctioned the visions. Such cleverly unverifiable "title dropping" clearly has only one purpose -- winning trust from the earliest pages. Also, the pseudonym for Spencer could have just as easily been "Bob" but why not kill two birds with one stone? Hey, let's pick a beloved and trusted name in LDS memory! Let's see ... Heber, Wilford, Lorenzo? Not recent enough. Ezra? Too obvious. Hmmm....
J.D.January 20, 2014
"Hallucinations" seem to be appropriate in describing what "Spencer" experienced. It's medically known that a hallucination can be more real to an individual than is reality. They are often based on past thought patterns. For example, "Spencer" and others are no doubt aware there eventually will be "The Big One" (earthquake) along the west coast. It's my educated guess the man hallucinated the probability into a 'visionary' event. The same can be said for other 'visionary' events he reports.
While serving an L.D.S. mission, I had a personal, dramatic, spiritual experience from the other side. It was intended for me, not for others, and I've not shared it with others. Likewise I had a near death experience I've not shared, as the experience was a teaching tool for me, alone. Sharing personal revelations is neither wise, nor appropriate. Having these personal experiences come in handy when a bit of doubt enters into one's life.. So it has been with me. I cannot deny what happened to me, and because I can't, I cannot refute the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ, like some of my ex-L.D.S. associate do.
RosieJanuary 20, 2014
Thanks Brother Ogden! I really liked the book Visions of Glory because I'm always interested in hearing about people's near death experiences. But I feel this was a personal vision for Spencer, and not for everyone. After all, if I really thought my home was going to be swallowed up by an earthquake in a few years, why prepare for retirement? I'm reminded of aquaintences who were convinced that 2000 was going to be the end of the world and literally gave up their home, careers and moved to the country. Nothing substitutes for personal prayer and a relationship with the Spirit.
JNRJanuary 20, 2014
FairMormon has similar concerns, https://www.fairmormon.org/perspectives/publications/spencers-visions-of-glory
Renaissance NerdJanuary 20, 2014
I had never heard of this book before I read this article, but now I feel quite curious to read it. However I'm not afraid of being overly influenced by it. I've read everything from the Quran to the Urantia Book, though I suppose something that is close, but not quite close enough could be more insidious. Still, an excellent review, with (to my mind) entirely appropriate warnings. I have to be careful about preaching Adam Smith and Frances Hutcheson, because even if their works contain a lot of truth, they're not true in the same sense as the scriptures.
DR ChaffinJanuary 20, 2014
One has to remember even normal dreams, or REM sleep, produces visions that are open to interpretation.( I have had some doozies) I do not know the dream state of the brain in near death mode, but I feel sure that it too is open for interpretation as well. Our General Authorities, our Stake Leaders, and our Scriptures, tell us to live the gospel principles, follow the prophets, and all will be well with us. We know there are messy times ahead, but hold to the iron rod and fear not. I read the book and find it interesting, but not infinite. The author's INTERPERTATION of a sophisticated dream. He even says so in the introduction.
BonniwJanuary 20, 2014
I appreciated Brother Ogden's review. I believe it a work of fiction, with scriptures thrown in to confuse the reader. I believe it was written by a wolf in sheep's clothing. I didn't feel the spirit at any time while reading it, and feel it could damage a new or beginners testimony. We are not to be lead astray by "every wind of doctrine." I can find the truth in the scriptures, through prayer and believing in the prophet, who is not allowed to lead us astray. If he were to do so, his life would be taken. Thank you, Brother Ogden
Monica FieldingJanuary 20, 2014
I loved the book. "Spencer" simply related his experiences. They are not a substitute in anyway for studying the scriptures or the words of the prophets. When I read the book, I felt the same way as when I converse with close friends in my home about dreams and visions they have shared with me. Take what the Spirit tells you is good, and don't worry about the rest. If the Spirit tells you not to read it, don't read it. Books like this should never replace gospel study, and the author did not intend for it to do so. There are always people who read too much into a book, especially members who don't study the doctrine and want easy answers. . . it doesn't mean the book is bad. The book is simply one man's experience, no more, no less, and I am grateful he was willing to endure the harsh criticism he knew he would receive. I agree with Brother Erickson and I thank him for his comments. --Sis. Fielding
Jim BarrusJanuary 20, 2014
Thank you for your review. There are many many books written by leaders of the Church about the teachings of the leaders of the church and the scriptures. If members want to know what is to come there are plenty of sources. the Scriptures are the main books.
Terri PontiusJanuary 20, 2014
My name is Terri Pontius, and I am the wife of the late John Pontius. I was present during the many interviews with
JohnJanuary 20, 2014
Brother Kelly-
Thank you for the most excellent counsel. If other readers are interested, may I suggest an alternate book, written by your BYU colleague, Brent L. Top, "Glimpses Beyond Death's Door".
bmsJanuary 20, 2014
I found both the book and this article to be insightful. And inciteful. The book should not be regarded as a guide. Nor should blog posts which are angry about it.
Deanne GillieJanuary 20, 2014
A well written article. I read the book and had many doubts about some of the doctrine in the book.
I feel so relieved that my feelings are founded by this article. Thank you so much Bro. Ogden for your insights and documentations.
MicheleJanuary 20, 2014
Thanks, Brother Ogden. This book was brought to my attention by a friend who expressed great excitement about the content. I couldn't help feel a bit uneasy, that it was one of the things we have been cautioned about. I have been particularly concerned because it dealt with some near-death type experiences. My mother is a big fan of the Beyond the Veil series, especially since her own parents have passed away and she is getting quite a bit older herself. The experiences in these books are obviously personal to the person experiencing them and have given others a great deal of comfort when looking at the life beyond. They do not purport to tell the Church or the world how to behave or the sequence of events in the last days. I had already determined not to purchase this book and not to tell my mother about it. I am glad I made this decision. It just seemed more than a little self-serving on the part of Brother Pontius to put it out there without the proper authority. Thanks again for confirming my feelings.
Phil HarrisonJanuary 20, 2014
Thank you, Brother Ogden, for this insightful and extensive analysis of this book. I read it at the request of someone else, and had many of the same concerns you have expressed. Thank you for making these concerns available to a wider audience through Meridian.
LaRaeJanuary 20, 2014
VERY WELL WRITTEN ARTICLE< BROTHER OGDEN. I have read the book and found it VERY DISTURBING for many reasons. (Many Brother Ogden has addressed in this article.) My question is, IF "Spencer's" visions etc. are true why is he afraid to reveal who he is--what is he afraid of?? The fact that so many readers are accepting it as GOSPEL--and following its' council is disturbing.
Have we not been warned in the scriptures--that "Even the Very Elect will be deceived???
It brings to mind a lady, author (who I will not name) who wrote 2 books, a few years ago, about her experiences of Life After Death--etc.--I read them, thought them to be VERY interesting and my heart went out to her, until she appeared on a "Talk Show" and openly admitted that she had Fabricated much of her experiences--TO SELL BOOKS--I cannot help but wonder if this "Visions of Glory" is not for the same reason??? It is like someone writing a book on "How to win at gambling or the lottery etc.--do they think we, the public are idiots??--they are making money on the books sold--that is a given--IF THEY KNEW HOW TO WIN WHY WOULD THEY BE SELLING BOOKS??? I feel that this "Spencer" should have to reveal who he is and not hide behind some unknown name. SAD, but I personally believe it was all written for Material gain--I did not, once, have a good feeling when reading the book and felt I should put it down, many times, but I did finish it so as not to base my feelings from just a few pages read. Thank you, again Brother Ogden for this article--I do hope MANY people read this.
ConnieJanuary 20, 2014
I was very glad to read this review. I wasn't sure what to think about the book when I was done. There are parts that I believe to be accurate, but others I don't. I do think if he had these visions, it should have been kept private but it is an incredible load. I also did not like the part where he described walking through a person and understanding all about the person's feelings, sins, etc. I hope no one, even in eternity, can be that transparent. Many parts disturbed me, but others comforted. My husband's response was that he did not feel the Spirit as he read the book. In retrospect, I would not choose to read it.
ClarisseJanuary 20, 2014
Thank you so much, Bro. Ogden! The thoughtful and vigourous research that went into this article provided much clarity and sound doctrinal support for the concerns that I experienced while reading the book. There were so many red flags that went up because of the inconsistencies in doctrine that it became difficult for me to believe any of the story was actually true. I have often wondered why it is still on the non-fiction shelves at Deseret Bookstores without a disclaimer because it can cause confusion and misunderstanding to those less inclined to search out correct principles. The Lord has always followed a pattern when it comes to His Church and people by revealing His word through ordained prophets and seers. When we prayerfully consider these words and humbly seek the Spirit, He will guide us by the Holy Ghost to receive personal revelation for ourselves and our own families as to what to do and how to live in accordance to His will. But those revelations are for us as individuals, and, as instructed so wonderfully in the article, not for the Church as a whole. Thanks again for reminding us where to turn to gain better understanding and correct verification of doctrine; the scriptures, teachings of the prophets and the witness of the Holy Ghost.
LeeJanuary 20, 2014
Personally I loved the book and I am glad that Spencer was told by the Spirit to share it after all these years. It made me want to be a better person. I felt the spirit and I think it did not contradict the scriptures or the prophets. "By the fruit you shall know". It was good and delicious to me. Timing is everything.
JulieJanuary 20, 2014
Thanks for this reasonable and well-documented commentary. I have read the book and wondered what leaders of the church have to day about it.
I think there are some very thought-provoking ideas in it, but like you, I have been troubled by some who seem to take it as church doctrine.
Marie BarnhurstJanuary 20, 2014
Thank you, Brother Ogden. Too many people are attracted to such sensational writing when they would be much better served to read the scriptures, say their prayers, and read the words of the living prophet!
SusieJanuary 20, 2014
Thank you Bro. Ogden for setting us straight and reminding us of some very important aspects of God's teachings. I believe as you do that the scriptures are where we can draw closer to our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ, not this type of book.
Stephen FennJanuary 20, 2014
Brother Ogden, I hope many who are enamoured with this book will read your article. It seems to me that a very subtle danger of reading this type of book is an eroding of our faith and trust in living prophets and apostles who are the very ones charged with the responsibility of officially interpreting the signs of the times. If one accepts these sensationalized writings as authoritative he must also concede that modern seers are somehow lacking in their vision of future events. Such a mindset is fraught with danger.
Alicia TaylorJanuary 20, 2014
I agree 100% with brother Ogden. Our personal revelations that come as we read the scriptures and pray should be kept to ourselves. The Lord will reveal to His people thru His servants the Prophets, He has said so and I know He will.
Thank you for your comments about the book.
Jerald L. Erickson January 20, 2014
Hello Dr. Ogden..
I have read the Visions of Glory book this past summer, and was so impressed that I bought copies for all of my brothers for Christmas, and have a copy that I am passing around to my adult children to read. Now, I just finished reading your column and concerns which are basically that he should have kept it to himself. In that regard, I would like to mention why I found the book valuable.
1) Neither I, nor any of the people I have discussed it with, are taking it as prophecy. We all understand that prophecy comes from the priesthoold leaders of the church. I see this book as a means to organize alot of future events into a model, or comprehendable outline of how things might roll out. This, in my mind, makes the future much less scary,and much more positive as something that we can prepare for, live through, and accomplish what we each need to be doing.
2) This book provided the best explanantion that I have ever read of how the righteous spirits around us assist us and comfort us, and how the evil spirits around us tempt us and try to take advantage of our weaknesses. Thus, forewarned is fore armed. I find this explanation both very modivational on how to avoid evil as well as comforting in understanding how the righteous around us will bouy us up and protect us when we need it most.
3) The description of what the various groups of the saints are doiing during the tumultuous times described, and how the leaders keep in touch and lead the saints even though war and destruction are all around, was very interesting. Again, it is viewed as a model of how it might be done.
4) The description of how the righteous saints are protected frrom the roving evil bands is interesting and reassuring.
5) The description of how many of world who are are trying to find peace seek out the righteous groups of saints first for peace and comfort, and then to learn about the gospel that brings that peace and oomfort is another good model of how it might be done.
5) The description of how the various bodies of saints and righteous are organized to prepare for the Saviours coming during all this war and destruction makes that assignment conprehendable as how it might be done.
6) When I pray about the impressions left by the book, about how to prepare, that we will be protected if we stay on the right path and do as our priesthood leaders direct us, and that we have a great work to do in helping others prepare for what is coming all seem to be comfirmed by the Spirit. Would the Spirt do that if the information was something that we are not supposed to know or have read? Overall, I very much enjoyed the book, and am grateful for the clarity and reassurance that it provides. These are just my thoughts on the matter. Thank you for your article and your thoughts on the matter. , Bro.Erickson
DebbieJanuary 20, 2014
I absolutely loved your commentary on Visions of Glory. When I was told about some of the fantastic experiences and "doctrine" in this book, I was tempted to buy it. However, I chose not to. It is nice to know that I didn't get caught up in the sensational. Also, I appreciate the caution to keep sacred revelation to oneself or immediate family. We can do damage by sharing too much, not only to our good, but the good of those we are trying to help. Thanks again for your words, Brother Ogden.
Ross-Anne PearsonJanuary 20, 2014
I voiced my concerns some time ago to our local bookstore. They told me it was their best selling book. I think the author was hallucinating when he wrote parts of his account. The book is highly objectionable.
Reed CarrJanuary 20, 2014
D. Kelly Ogden shows the great wisdom he possesses in cautioning us about delving into such sacred matters, as we can not understand fully a vision given to another without the Spirit guiding us as He did to Nephi
Someone in UtahJanuary 20, 2014
I read this book, and became more uneasy with it the further I got into it. It was pretty much about his own "eliteness". That is exactly what Satan tries to do to us - make us feel as if we are special and important. Although Spencer seems to be humble about it all, I think he was deceived. Satan's tactics are very real and can even feel very spiritual. It's hard to discern sometimes - and I speak from my own experience.
Gaynor WellsJanuary 20, 2014
Thank you so much for your opinion and concerns on the book Visions of Glory. I think whenever we read any book that has these kinds of subjects in them, we should ask the Lord for guidance in knowing if it is true or not, I have made it a rule that the only books I can trust are the Book of Mormon, D&C and the Bible if it has been translated correctly. I remember a certain apostle a few years ago writing some very interesting books and people loved him and his writings, they were suppose to be experiences he had. Then suddenly he was excommunicated and not all of his experiences were true. So I think sometimes people get caught up in wanting to believe what is written if it sounds good and not always the truth. We have been warned about these things and I must say after reading Visions of Glory, my first question was, why am I questioning this book? read it as a good novel.
duane lawsJanuary 20, 2014
Thanks to brother Ogden for being clear and specific in his analysis of the content of this book. Have the authors responded to his critique??
TahneJanuary 20, 2014
Excellent article. Thank you for your well organized insights!
D. Corydon HammondJanuary 20, 2014
I applaud this review. On the FAIR website there is an even more cautious and critical review of the work of this author: https://www.fairmormon.org/perspectives/publications/spencers-visions-of-glory. Beware.
Jim KinseyJanuary 20, 2014
I have read the book and I too, have concerns. This is not what the scriptures tell us will happen. The UN may be evil, but I think its intent is basically good. These are the bad guys in the book. The whole thing sounds like something Orson Scott Card would write in conjunction with H. G. Wells or George Orwell.
I do not recommend it and I certainly think that time would be better spent studying the scriptures and the teachings of the prophets than reading Mormon science fiction.
KathleenJanuary 20, 2014
I read this book. Toward the beginning "Spencer" talks of disembodied spirits, who were once flesh, how their former addictions remained with them and they target mortal family members. I was molested by my father, who has passed on. I have sons who struggle with pornography addictions, as did my father. This part of the book deeply disturbed me as all I could picture is my father spurring my son's on. I have wondered, what of spirit prison, what hope of breaking the chains of the past? "Spencer" made it seem as if there is little hope to change a family from a cycle of addiction and abuse. What of repentance, I love my father and hope he will repent of what he did. I have shed many tears since reading this account in the book and am seeking answers.
gripJanuary 20, 2014
My wife and I both read the book. We both came away withe a very heavy uneasy feeling. I would not recommend that anyone read the book. I found no peace in reading it.
Jackie FarnsworthJanuary 20, 2014
I have read this book, and like a lot of others found the first part interesting and thought-provoking. However the second part becomes so much like a fiction novel (Pontius is a novelist) that I began to feel negative, warning feelings and threw the book away before finishing it. A lot there bothered me. This experience is matched by many in my family. I would not recommend it for reading.
GrammaJanuary 20, 2014
i have heard a few of my acquaintances talk about this book and i was pleased with the comments made by Brother Ogden.
Maureen OlsonJanuary 20, 2014
Dear Brother Ogden,
I approach the writing of these comments the same way I approach any of my communications on any gospel topic: with the deepest feeling of love for my Father in Heaven, my Savior, and my fellow human beings. And with the greatest respect for each person that I know how to demonstrate.
Before I read a book on any gospel topic, I ask my Father in Heaven in prayer to help me discern by His Spirit, if this book is not only inspired of Him and His work, but also if there is something in it meant for me, and if He will please help me find that portion by His Spirit.
I already accept the words of modern and ancient prophets, authorized and accepted by current Church leaders. Why? Because I have had a testimony of the truthfulness of the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ all my life. Of course, I still read these writings prayerfully and by the Spirit.
However, when evaluating a source not written by authorized and accepted prophets and apostles both ancient and modern, I have found my standard of earnest, honest personal inquiry through prayer to be essential in having the Spirit direct me to some sources and away from others.
I also find that prayerful reading of a book or article is essential to having the Spirit with me as I read, so that I will, indeed, glean from the work what the Lord intends me to understand.
These gems of understanding are always in harmony with revealed truths of the gospel taught in authorized scripture both ancient and modern.
I recommend my method of acquiring discernment and understanding to anyone, knowing that prophets both ancient and modern have taught it to us.
Reading Visions of Glory has been one of many, many testimony affirming and building works I have read in my life.
I have not found the errors you have found in the work, but I was not reading the book to find things that could possibly be misconstrued and used toward evil.
In fact, I feel you are misreading passages in the book and ignoring others that could answer some of your questions.
I do not think the process of inquiry a bad one.
I do believe there is only one way to read a book on any gospel topic, and that is prayerfully and with the Spirit of the Lord. Only this way can each individual glean what The Spirit means for them to glean from a work.
If the Spirit leads an individual away from a work, then it is not meant for that person.
As far as I know, to date, no person in a position of authority in the Church has condemned Visions of Glory.
I also know Deseret Book is now carrying the sequel to Visions of Glory (called Journey to the Veil)as a special order. I personally consider this sequel to be, (besides authorized scripture both ancient and modern which are the most spiritually empowering works ever written and the foundation of our faith), the most spiritually empowering book I have ever read, I have been reading Deseret Book publications literally all my life, and love them.
I feel any person with a solid understanding of basic gospel principles can read Visions of Glory and glean from it by the Spirit that which is intended to strengthen their testimonies and faith in our Savior Jesus Christ.
I fully respect the decision of anyone who feels led by the Spirit away from it to not read it. In fact, I would insist that they not read it!
I do feel, as "Spencer" shares in his book (Visions of Glory), that he was directed by the Spirit of God to make parts of his visions available to readers in general now, today.
I agree that it is not for all readers, and I agree that some will use it for evil, and that others who have been drawn to it out of curiosity rather than the Spirit will misread it and that it will be a negative influence in their lives.
Let us always read and live by the Spirit! We do need it as our constant companion.
Thank you, Brother Ogden, I have loved and continue to appreciate so many of your writings!
With faith and love,
Maureen Olson
Annette DeanJanuary 20, 2014
I knew when I saw this article it would try and deter people from reading the book. If people are uplifted by it why is that a problem?
I'm disappointed in this article.
Trish MJanuary 20, 2014
Doesn't publishing matters of spiritual communication for the purpose of gaining money constitute priestcraft?
I haven't heard of this book, but I greatly appreciate the explanation here. I've always been suspicious of such revelations and dreams which, I imagine, have been appended and embellished over time.
KarenJanuary 20, 2014
Lehi's family and Jerusalem were upset by his visions and teachings, but he was still instructed to share them. My husband had prophetic dreams--they upset me not because I did not believe them, but because of the way he shared them or the significance of the content.
CharlotteJanuary 20, 2014
Thank you so much for this commentary. This book has been a troubling concern of mine since I first read it. With all the stir about it, I am grateful to learn that my concerns have complete validation in the scriptures and the words of the living prophets.
Bruce P. OrnsteadJanuary 20, 2014
Spencer says his office was one door away from the Saviors. in other words, he was given more prominance than all the apostles and prophets of this last 200 years without he holding any special office at all. bottom line, the book is a fraud.
LexaGraemeJanuary 20, 2014
Thank you for the review. I have not heard of this book, and the sensation around it seems similar to that of an (at least then) LDS woman who had her own near-death experiences--some of which also contradicted doctrine--and shared them in her own book about 20 years ago. To share something that should not have been shared, and then sharing it in a way that you will earn money from it--falls under the category of "priestcraft." I want no part of such things.
JanJanuary 20, 2014
thank you so much for your article. I too have felt as you have about this book. I have friends to have taken this book almost as scripture and it has frightened me. we need to stick to what the prophets have told us and to read and study they scripture to find answers
Janice HurstJanuary 20, 2014
I read the book about a year ago. It had no profound effect on me. I did suggest to a couple of LDS friends that they should read it and tell me what they thought about it. I thought it was one man's fiction. I though it interesting, but found nothing that gave me an AHA moment. I have read other books by LDS and other Christians authors that touched me much move than this book. It read too much as fiction would. Not believable to me.
vickieJanuary 20, 2014
I had no idea this kind of book was out..it must be a utah thing or western part of the united states. many people write what they see and their visions...but...as doctrine I dont consider it that unless it comes from the prophet or is cleared through the prophet. I have had such revealings from the HOly Ghost and it became part of my testimony but it wasnt something I came up with..it was in support of a proclamation by one of our prophets. it was indeed amazing and I was so happy to hear a prophet proclaim something so wonderful. I didnt think my knowledge of such just before that proclamation should be mentioned at all to anyone..until after I heard the prophet proclaim this wonderful thing and thus it proved that the Spirit was manifesting this miracle to everyone...showing it was a truth...in this case I have to wonder why a man waited 40yrs and then allowed someone else to interpret the book for him and write it...IM not really sure about this esp if the prophet hasnt sustained it...these are just my feelings...
Loma SilsburyJanuary 20, 2014
A very dear friend went to the effort and personal expense sending me a copy of this document all the way to Australia asking, in turn, for my honest opinion given he had felt very excited and inspired by its pages.
I found the literary style stilted and virtually unreadable and content to not only contradictory, but in direct conflict with the admonitions of His appointed Servants that we must keep such experiences sacred and private.
How do you tell someone you think so highly of that you have never read such a load of unmitigated twaddle ?
This is feed back only - I am still trying to solve my dilemma !
Respectfully, Sister Loma Silsbury
Dale January 20, 2014
I have not read the book in question, but for the same reasons you have outlined I find it incredibly troubling, to the point that I would be surprised if he Church did not take some kind of action against the person that revealed what was written in the book.
Susan C.January 20, 2014
Even the revelations in our own patriarchal blessings are to be kept sacred, and few circumstances allow for the suggestion of sharing with others. Whether "Spencer" truly had these experiences, I cannot say; however, I, too, wonder why he feels the need to go public. He is not a prophet of the Lord, whose writings are to be taken as doctrine of the Church. Also, I wonder about the possibility of the story being embellished after 40 years of silence...like the big fish that got away?
Comments | Return to Story
Sami V.March 27, 2024
I just wanted to write to thank you for your clear and in depth analysis of this book I am not a member of the LDS church so am not knowledgeable about any of this. I heard about this book because of all the recent court documents release with Ruby Franke and Jodi H. and apparently the book greatly influenced Jodi. I found this site because I was trying to find out about this book, not just reviews from a site selling it. You did a good job comparing it to other books and beliefs and showing the issues. I just wanted to commend you for such a deep diving article and tell you how I valued it, even if we have different beliefs. Thanks again.
Almandos Aristides IRIGOYENJanuary 17, 2022
I read the book Visions of Glory. I think it is amazing. To have an open mind is essential. Do not forget the testimonies at the end of the book referred to similar events. I am not afraid of new perspectives, I want them and I did not find anything that offend me. 100 points to this book
Cliff JolmJune 13, 2020
I noticed many similarities in this book and the priestcraft peddled by Chad Daybell, as shown in official court documents. This bunk is very dangerous, and highly addictive. Please, please...read the canonizes scriptures and teachings of modern prophets; not this stuff.
Brett NielsonJanuary 6, 2020
Well, here's the deal. The book is not scripture but it is very interesting. Read it, think about it. Come to your own conclusions. I would never think of the book as 100% literal. It's a dream or a vision or both. I just use it as a vehicle to consider things I may not have thought of. I don't quote from it at church. I am not scared of the book. I have a mind. I have a heart. I can discern for myself. I don't need anyone to condemn it or support it. I can use my own judgement. Why should people be up in arms about story told in a book that is not claiming to be scripture but just the experience a man had that he decided to share? Read it or don't read it. Ponder it or don't ponder it. Decide for yourself if you agree with all of it, none of it, or just a portion of it. The sky is not falling. I guess I can't blame some of you who are alarmed by it. I think if you look at it as just a book of one man's experiences or thoughts or even creativity then you are less likely to be upset by it.
KjetilJune 23, 2018
I don't see the problem; just don't treat it as scripture or a literal guide to coming events. It's an interesting story and book. Period. And at the same time: prophets and apostles have not revealed all truth, because it has not been given to them or because we were/are not ready to receive it. So analyzing this book which potentially deals on divine matters (potentially!) by comparing it to existing scripture and statements, and using our own understanding to do so will probably make us fall short. But again: as long as we don't treat this as revealed scipture, we're fine. Read the scriptures daily, as that certainly will bring you closer to Christ!
JeffreyDecember 19, 2017
Amen Bro. Ogden Nice Job Follow the Prophets, the First presidency & Twelve, and keep personal revelations personal for ourselves. thanks you Jeffrey
Brett AllenNovember 14, 2016
I liked the first part of this book. (1) I loved being reminded that while here on earth we need to be a tool in the Lords hand to bless and serve others. That if we will let Him, our Saviour through the Holy Ghost, will lead us on the right path to maximize our time on earth to spread the Gospel and be true disciples. (2) I was also grateful for the strong reminder that there is no substitute for repentance, personal purity and righteousness. (3) What I took from the last days chapters, was not that I was reading a description of the future, but that times will become perilous, both physically and spiritually. We need to have developed strong unshaken testimonies of Jesus Christ and filled our lamps to the brim with the oil of countless acts of service and devotion along with hours of scripture study and temple attendance. (4) If our every thought is centered on obedience to Christ we will then have the strength, courage and humility to stay faithful and true, regardless of how the future truly unfolds.
JaredJune 21, 2016
What is so interesting to me about this article is how the author demonstrates how much the book “Visions of Glory” is at odds with the doctrines, policies, and views of the LDS church leadership and membership. The author uses dozens of direct quotes from LDS church leaders to substantiate his views. So if you liked reading Visions of Glory and agree with it in substance than you need to realize that your position on this book is very much at odds with the LDS church leadership. It is strange to me how many people there are who loved this book and are also loyal members of the LDS church who still believe its top leaders are prophets, seers, and revelators.
MarshylJune 5, 2015
I read the book and enjoyed most of it. About the last third or quarter of the book, the style of writing changed a bit and it became less intriguing to read--not that this is a fault or flaw in the motivation of publishing it--just an observation. Me, my wife and the majority of my family and close friends have read this book and all have come away with inspired thoughts and concerned introspection. The experiences written about were taken as Spencer's experiences, but also an opportunity to reflect our own spiritual and temporal preparedness. When you live day to day with little worry other than the mundane or routineness of career, family, church callings and responsibilities and a little time for recreation, personal development and so forth--the reality that we live in the end of times can slip down the consciousness priority. For me and the majority of my family and friends, it was a welcome reminder to recognize where we may be falling short--in our relationships with each other and others, in our spiritual devotion, in our trust with the Lord and readiness to forgive, seek forgiveness and exercise greater love and compassion. It was a wake up call to arouse the spiritual and temporal senses and avoid the all-too-easy complacency of every day living. I recommend it to anyone who has a solid testimony of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, His church and the authority of doctrinal revelation--they will find it only adds to their ability to live a better, more inspired, loving and prepared life.
RayMay 23, 2015
Read the book. Loved it. I too have received promptings, visions, and dreams from the Lord, but not in the magnitude that Spencer has. Many of these I have treasured up for 20 to 25 years, not speaking to others about them. This book has allowed me to take these sacred experiences and put them in a semblance of order. It has also allowed me to merge my experiences with the words and teachings of General Authorities in a way that is not contradictory to the Doctrines of the Church. To those who feel the need to criticize John M. Pontius or "Spencer", remember the teachings of the Savior. "Let him who is without sin, cast the first stone." In no way was it their intent that the reader accept this book as scripture, nor was it intended to replace scripture. There is nothing wrong with reading Visions of Glory, the Standard Works, and the words of the brethren. If you do so with the Spirit, all will lead you to Christ. It is easy to find fault one with another and find mistakes and inconsistencies. We are all human. Let those without the Church do that. If you are concerned about John Pontius and Spencer, pray for them, put it in the Lord's hands, and move on. It is not our job to judge and condemn.
DanFebruary 3, 2015
Great book. Love it!
Marv MOctober 28, 2014
I had a friend who is a sensational type of person recommend this book to me. When I say sensational I mean it in a weird way. I read it and felt good about some of the things I read, However when I got past page 100 I immediately started feeling troubled and anxious. When he gets into the visions of the natural/unnatural calamaties I started doubting. It was troublesome to me and I could not let it go. I came to realize that I was being deceived, yes deceived. It's an actual feeling you get, and it's not pleasant. Feeling the Spirit is pleasant, and knowing God is a God of order and Love is pleasant. This book is unorganized and really deceptive. Do not read it, you will be sorry you did. Stick to the books of the Prophets and Apostles and the Standard works for Greater Light. That is where there is safety and truth.
Mark PetersonOctober 28, 2014
Some of us are personally acquainted with someone that has had an NDE experience. The NDE accounts generally agree on one distinct and certain point of understanding. In the next life, which some have said is the real life, since mortal life is only a tiny part of eternity, the feeling of love abounds. These people relate that Love for each other, Love for God, and Love from God is so intense that it is almost unbearable for us in this present mortal existence. Evidently, love is everywhere in the universe and it overwhelms any other feeling and surpasses anything we can imagine. With this amazing love as the basis, we have been taught by prophets that terrible and fantastic things are soon to come. The scriptures also tell us that in the last days good members of the church will have visions and dreams foretelling the calamities to befall us. I dare to say that not one of us doubts that we are living in the very last days. Yes, it is completely possible that there could be mis-perceptions in these accounts, the same as any person would be at a loss to accurately describe something they don't understand or have never seen before. It makes sense to believe there are human errors in the details, while retaining ones belief in the clear message of warning.
Leah GibbonsOctober 27, 2014
Wow. I'm certainly learning a lot about members of the Church and how we can differ on our perceptions about this book "Visons of Glory". I've read it. I was bored at some parts but was captivated and excited about other parts. I read with an open mind and every feeling of excitement, sadness and mixed emotions that I experienced while reading --and naturally combined what I was reading with my own testimony and knowledge. I have to agree with Greg Wright, Maureen Olson, and Gerald Ericksen's points of view. I honestly think that with the Spirit guiding us we each will glean from this book what we are suppose to. With that said, I also think that for those members who feel this book is anywhere from "somewhat important" all the way to "hogwash", that that is what it is meant to be for you. (Just my opinion) For me, it gives me a better understanding of how things could go in the future, but gives me help and understanding of things going on in my own life. The scriptures or word of God will always and forever be my foremost guide. Prophets will always be who I listen to for answers and help. The guidance of the Spirit will help me discern, and for now I discern no wrong in this book. I have some questions, but my feeling overall is the writings in this book are true for Spencer. The rest of us read and discern for ourselves what we want to get from what he shared. I for one am grateful that he took the time and effort to share such personal experiences.
GeorgeOctober 26, 2014
I read the book and although interesting it's clearly not inspired to me. Reading the Book of Mormon every day is they key to discerning truth from error. When you read the most correct book everyday it's so easy to spot fakes. I'm more concerned about the people here saying they found it edifying and uplifting etc. Those saying this do not have the gift of discernment and should read the BOM straight for 3-4 months then read this book again. Trust me, you will then know its not of God.
Kelly OgdenOctober 25, 2014
Rebuttal to Brother Ogden regarding
AlanOctober 23, 2014
1) I find many comments here interesting. Many of them focus on concerns of him "sharing" the visions and trying to make money from them and not that many of them are doctrinally unsound. 2) Off the top of my head, I can think of three other major writings like this in church history. Hiram Page being one of the most famous examples. 3) I don't doubt he actually had these visions, but I do doubt that they were from the Lord. Why? Not once did one of these angles who ministered to him pass a test of authenticity. *required*
BroBrysonOctober 22, 2014
I've read Visions of Glory. I read reviews about it first and knew what I was getting into. You just have to read it with caution. There wasn't any point where I thought "this is un-holy" - I just took it as if it was a person sharing experiences that they had they they themselves don't even understand. I imagine Pontius had to resist the temptation to draw conclusions and share them in the writing, but overall I feel like it's safe to read "with a grain of salt". There is a heavy emphasis throughout the book that the revelations are personal and shouldn't be adopted as doctrine - this doesn't mean that he was forbidden to share them because I'm sure it's helped many people out there who have similar experiences who feel like they're crazy and alone because they "aren't allowed to talk about it". These same people may be missing out on a lot of insight into their lives simply because they've been conditioned to cast them aside. I think the book overall will help a lot of people more than it will harm the Church and its members. It got the wheels in my head turning and I was able to see a whole new perspective during my daily scripture study. I think it's important to read maintain daily scripture study while reading this book because the scriptures will invite the spirit, and the spirit will then be able to teach/filter as necessary while reading "Visions". I prefer to rely on the spirit as opposed to picking apart everything from a scholarly standpoint. Joseph Smith started out as a 14-year-old farm boy with a question, and he got an answer through scripture study and prayer. Let the Holy Spirit guide - don't be afraid to read "Visions".
BrookeOctober 22, 2014
I read parts of the book and was deeply disturbed and upset. I am now very paranoid about the recent outbreak of Ebola and spend much more time than I should worrying about it. I am searching for something to help me find peace, if anyone has any ideas besides scriptures, faith, or prayers, please do say.
DakotaOctober 16, 2014
I'd love to thank 'Spencer' for sharing his vision so that he can help all of us who know what we need to do to live with our Savior and Heavenly Father again. Thank you for the reality check in these last days and--at least to me--giving us a gentle reminder to get prepared and not waste any more time delaying. Thank you to John for writing this important book, and as I realize he has passed away, I'd like to thank him through his wife and offer her an apology on behalf of all who have sent unkind words her way. Neither Spencer, John, nor her deserve that. I think many have been truly uplifted by this great book. If you're not on board with what 'Spencer' says, then don't read the book. Who are we to say that 'Spencer' or anyone else should not share an experience, especially if they are instructed to do so? If it happened to you, would you ignore that prompting? Guidance and knowledge are important and there are times when spiritual messengers can be just an 'ordinary person.' Plus, it's made very clear right from the beginning that it is not presented or meant to be considered as Church doctrine, so it shouldn't be taken that way. Neither 'Spencer' nor John Pontius are trying to replace any teachings or council from the Church. For me, the book was incredibly uplifting and I truly felt the love of the Savior in it. And I will read it more than once! Whether events unfold in the final days just as 'Spencer' describes isn't the point. The point is: are you faithful? Prepared? Is your family prepared? Where are you spiritually? This book makes you think about all those questions. All good things. Visions of Glory is truly a beautiful wake-up call and I would highly recommend it for anybody who cares about the future.
Brady JohnsonOctober 16, 2014
I agree with Becky..."He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her (him/them)." John 8:7 I believe if it doesn
BrianOctober 6, 2014
This is an exciting read. They book clearly states that it is an experience of one man, and the author doesn't belive it is anyone's potential future but visions and metaphors for Spencer. Joseph Smith said the topic of the afterlife should be of primary concern for us all. I gleaned a few spiritual things from the book. Everything we do in secret will be revealed. We do work for our family beyond the veil, Can we believe that they are closer than we think trying to help us? 1/3 of he pre-existence is here on earth trying to make us miserable. We are told in the scriptures that we will be taught in dreams. While the first half resonated with me, the second half feels more like food for thought or allegories. This book reminds me of the reality of eternal choices and personal experiences that lead us to build our testimony. I had a supernatural experience that was the catalyst to talk to my bishop, received a cleansing priesthood blessing and repented and served a mission. In times of doubt these experiences have been an unshakeable anchor, while many are skeptical of my story. With that I keep an open mind to other's stories. In the end, this book has made me think more of the afterlife and the trials that we need to be prepared for in the last days. Do I think Joseph Smith will appear? No but ancient prophets did appear to him. We believe stuff like that, right? Of course their are doctrinal inconsistencies, but the book wasn't claiming to be doctrine. This book would probably be too deep to non LDS, but taken with a grain of salt, it may make one ponder eternal matters and lead us to more scriptural study.
CorieOctober 6, 2014
I have read the book, but was unimpressed. Many have implied that the brethren have reviewed and approve of this book. Others have said the brethren's apparent silence is tacit approval of this work. I have read many books by people that were later excommunicated for their writings. I have had many friends read the same works and leave the church. What is the difference? Some lack discernment and are looking for something sensational. I find it interesting that this has turned into a fight about who is right and who is wrong. Joseph Smith said that we should, "search all heights and depths" to know God. However, when we search the depths and ignore the heights, we cannot acquire the discernment needed to navigate the straight and narrow path. I have read extensively and agree with Brother Ogden's cautions. This book offers nothing true that one could not obtain from a 'purer stream'.
BeckySeptember 30, 2014
Wow, I hear a lot of judgements being placed on "Spencer" and John Pontius for writing this book. Who is out of line here? Who are we to judge someone motives? If the book doesn't work for you, why condemn it our the authors? Pass it up or set it aside. We are all at different places in our understanding. Let us all practice love and unity. If this is "Spencer's" experience, who are we to judge?
Fabio SagebinSeptember 27, 2014
I had the blessing of translating the book into Portuguese and Spanish. I had several meetings with "Spencer" and developed a deep love and friendship with him. I learned that the only concern the "Brethren" had about the Visions of Glory, was not the content or the way it came to Spencer, but that the information was released to soon. Spencer is a good man, a righteous Bishop, a man "with no guile".
JulieSeptember 9, 2014
I would like to extend a very heartfelt thank you to "Spencer" for sharing his vision. As I was reading it, I fully understood that it was a vision meant for "him." He even explained several times he wasn't sure what some things even meant for him--he was just telling what he saw. Because of that, I did not take it as official Church doctrine at all, so I don't understand why there is controversy over it. Also, when I was reading it, I wasn't trying to search for something negative or something to find fault with. What I was looking for was the positive--and I will say that there were overwhelming positives throughout the book. One of the biggest concepts that impacted me was the crystal clear message of love that our Savior has for each one of us and how much he truly wants us to succeed. The feeling of love projected in this book was almost tangible, and since I've read it, it has even impacted the way I treat people every day--including strangers. All I have to keep in mind is our Savior's great love and that we should try to always be like him. And yes, I know I've learned that every day of my life--but this book had a beautiful impact in that area. Whether the events described in the book come to fruition as stated or not doesn't matter--what this book also did was impress upon me in a very effective way that I've still much work to do and I WILL be prepared whether events unfold during my lifetime or not. This book has given me a much deeper and broader love for everything and a much greater hope for the future. It's increased my courage for the future and its helped even further build my faith. So, its back to the beginning--it's what you personally look for, and I choose to look for the positive and focus on ways that this book has truly helped me in my life. I would recommend anyone with the same life goals to read it!
Klaus MaartensAugust 26, 2014
Hi: My mom was reading the book and told me that it was interesting and showed me some paragraphs which she was highlighting. So I went to the web and I located the book in PDF format, but just before I ordered it, Kelly Ogden's article called my attention and I read it. Then, I did not have the desire to read the book. The commentary on the book has lots of references and an accusatory tone, I don't think that the writer or the visionary are speaking for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. or had the intention to misled the membership. We have one of the greatest gifts of agency, to choose what we desire. If I decide to read the book and take every event to heart and disregard the teaching of the Scriptures, then I am a slothful servant and not worthy. I enjoy Revelations too much! We are in the last days, and it is going to get worse. The sure thing is to stay in holy places and obey; that will guarantee our survival from crime, the Gadianton robbers in Washington DC, and the hate from the Muslim world. Be prepared, trust in the Mighty God of Israel and succeed.
JamesAugust 23, 2014
I happen to know who "spencer" is. I had the pleasure of meeting him and his wife not too long ago. He seemed like a great guy, and his wife seemed really sweet. A comment that I read on here said something to the affect, "I wouldn't be surprised if the leaders of the church took action against him". Well I happen to know for a fact that, even though the leaders of the church are aware of the book "visions off glory", and know "spencer", they have called him to be a bishop of a ward in the salt lake county not too long ago. I find this particularly interesting. If the leaders of the church have the confidence in "spencer" to call him to this position of leadership, and believe him to be a man of God, than why would I have reason to doubt his story. I think his being called as bishop is validation that his story is genuine. Again people, "spencer" unequivocally states that his visions and experiences are not doctrine, but were meant for him. And why can't the Lord tell him that there will come a time when he can reveal what he has seen? Why is everybody saying that he should keep it to himself? If The Lord told you it was ok to share, wouldn't YOU share it? Of course you would! I don't understand how people are so quick to criticize.
LearnerAugust 22, 2014
Thanks for this great article, professor Ogden. I am very dubious about this book, especially about the negative affect is has on people. Revelations from the Spirit always edify. Does this book? Satan will tell 100 truths to get you to swallow one poisonous lie.
SandyAugust 17, 2014
I found the experiences in the book Visions of Glory very helpful in many ways. Although I did not die and go beyond the veil, I have had several dreams and yes some very distinct visions about certain future events. In short I saw the same or similar things only on a much smaller scale and in a more localized area in Utah. It was refreshing when I received a second testimony. It brought a certain amount of clarity to what I experienced, after reading the details of what Sister Rowe and 'Spencer' saw. Although I have shared most of what I saw with immediate family I didn't disclose much of the detail as I was told not to. I wanted to deliver the message I was allowed to share for the purpose of how we could prepare as a family. We also need to be of assistance to those around us. Interesting to note my Patriarchal Blessing spoke of this very thing but I didn't understand it at first. Now... my question to you? If Charles Evans the Springville Patriarch's vision and that of many others was published, why not this young lady or for that matter "Spencer"? There is entirely TOO much finger pointing and discussion on what other people should or shouldn't do. It seems everyone has an opinion on everyone else's lives. It's NONE of our business. We're not the ones receiving their promptings by the Spirit. We would all do well to pay attention to our lives and those of our family members. In other words we should all be content to correct our shortcomings instead of making comments about others. Methinks there are many who are a bit envious of that fact these authors have had the privilege or curse (as they might say) to view such events. Some declare....It must not have happened because the Lord didn't show ME these visions. Tread lightly people. Before you speak (or post) ask yourselves, 'Is it true, Is it necessary, and/or Is it derogatory?
DarcyAugust 12, 2014
To Jo Budro. The earth changes drastically during an earthquake of such magnitude. Heights and depths will not be the same as they are now.
Marilyn DeGanneAugust 4, 2014
Dear Brother Ogden, I have both of your commentaries on the Old Testament and love them. Thank you for writing them.
Joe BudroJuly 31, 2014
Brother "Spencer" says he was washed down North Temple to the old Union Pacific Depot. "The train station was flooded by about a foot of water, which went down by a few inches as the hours passed. (p. 122) Later he says "the temple had been flooded about twenty-five feet deep . . . the old Tabernacle was gone." (p. 128) How can it be possible for the depot to be under only one foot of water when the depot's elevation is almost 100 feet lower than Temple Square which was under 25 feet of water? "I decided to make my way back . home. ... my journey took three full days because of the devastation. ...I probably walked twenty miles to cover five." (pp 122-123) "Spencer" is now around 64 years old, if the big earthquake doesn't hit for another ten years or so, he'll be somewhat elderly. Would a a senior citizen spend three days walking to a house that he already knows is "no longer habitable"?
GregJuly 21, 2014
I read the book and found that I was inspired and motivated afterward in a clean and pure way to be more like my Father in Heaven and to focus on coming to Zion in a more urgent manner. I agree that there are several things that are inconsistent and/or incorrect from a doctrinal standpoint. I don't see the big hangup here. I don't put the same level of literal doctrinal requirements on several other methods of teaching and visions that are true and inspired. For instance, a pre-mortal Peter, James and John aren't able to physically shake hands with Adam according D&C 129:4-8 but I don't get hung up there and miss the real lesson being taught. I have family members who have loved this book and others that have been offended by it (though most didn't read the book before becoming offended). I found the reading of this book to be something that provided me a grander vision of myself, others and the Plan of our Salvation. The parts that are true and relevant to me have inspired me and have accompanied well my study and application of the word of God found in the scriptures and from the ordained leaders of the church.
BrianJuly 4, 2014
Many comments are negative on here. Everyone must understand that 'Spencer' states heavily that this is not doctrine! He is not claiming to receive revelation for the Church. He is not trying to mislead anyone. This book is not a revelation of what will happen, or how it will happen; it is as the cover indicates ONE MAN'S astonishing account of the last days. You all must understand that. It is not scripture and does not claim to be. Read it for enjoyment, or food for thought.
JORGE RIOSJuly 2, 2014
I want to said to John, Terry and specialy to Spencer Thanks a lot for this book that is a real treasure for me and many that we feel the spirit of true in there. I love this book and his so powerful teachings. And thanks Good to led us now those in this especific time.
MaryJune 29, 2014
I have been a seeker of truth all of my life and have read the B.O.M. and the standard works almost daily since I was a young girl. Even as a teenager, I would devour gospel doctrine literature
TeresaJune 24, 2014
We hear about the sealed protion of the Book of Mormon. I have read all these comments and realize why Joseph was told not to translate that part. Because those who have the spirit will hear what they need to from revelation. Those who don't have the spirit will treat it like the Savior was treated my the Jews. I now understand why Isaiah, Nephi, Jacob, and the many others including the brotheren have never given us the details of the last days. Or should I say moments. My response to this book is "Watch"
CharlesJune 10, 2014
Although I absolutely agree with the latterday prophetic advice to with-hold sharing sacred experiences, we do find that our dear prophet Joseph Smith Jr did not himself concerning the sacred plates nor the First Vision experience. Perhaps the two circumstances are different. What I can personally testify is that the Holy Scriptures and latterday prophetic voices, with the Holy Spirit's guidance, are clear and more powerful in word and the Spirit of the truths ahead for all of God's children. I have not read any firm doctrine in these types of books that I have not read in those scriptures. It almost seems we need to be spoon feed the word of God and look for the readers digest version of it in books of this nature. I am not completely critical of such personal writings but agree with following the Lord's path and order of the priesthood. The Book of Mormon clearly prophesies the end of times for America, The Holy Bible interlaces prophecy for the end of times for the rest of the world. We have been commanded to walk with the Holy Spirit by obedience and faith and to follow the living Prophet. I like the simple path, plain and true.
ChuckJune 10, 2014
Dear friends, I'm thankful to John and Spencer for acting on the promptings they had to write this book. I have read it multiple times appreciate Spencer carefully pointing out that he is not making any attempt to convey his experiences as doctrine or revelation to the church. The book repeatedly reinforces that we should look to the general authorities both now and in the future. This is a beautiful book that has allowed me to contemplate for myself some of the interesting experiences he has had. I am always grateful for such opportunities.
KevinJune 3, 2014
Responding to the last paragraph that the Lord will only enlighten his people through the Prophet: (as taken from lds.org on Revelation) The scriptures tell of different types of revelation, such as visions, dreams, and visitations by angels. Through such channels, the Lord has restored His gospel in the latter days and revealed many truths.
GregJune 2, 2014
I appreciated the article written by D. Kelly Ogden in the importance of making sure that the ways of God and doctrines come through the proper channels and are consistent with already received revelations and commandments. I also very much appreciated reading this book because of the things that I learned from the Spirit but during the reading of this book as well as when I was studying the gospel. For me, this book wasn't a doctrinal or even accurate representation of anything but I felt inspired by a few things that have lead me to be more like the Savior in real and tangible ways. I desire to seek the Lord's will for me rather than what I would imagine or expect. I have a greater desire to study the gospel from the scriptures and the living prophets with more intent on becoming like the Savior. I feel a greater desire and purpose in "coming unto Zion" right now in my life. And I feel even more interested in learning directly through the spirit rather than from others what the Lord would have me do, know and be. If this book purported to be doctrine or scripture, I'd feel very differently about it. In fact, some of the sensational reaction to this book is probably inappropriate. It felt more like reading the journal of somebody and their spiritual experiences which were designed for them. If there is any doubt, put the book down and read the words of Christ in the scriptures and from the living prophets. This should not be a substitute for such in any way. That is just my 2 cents.
BrianMay 27, 2014
My story shows the dangers of this kind of book.... A well liked cousin of mine gave my aged father a copy of this book last year, since then he has become obsessed with it. He will turn 85 this fall if he makes it. He is, we believe in the beginning stages of dementia. He has read the book 5 times and given underlined dedicated copies to a couple dozen family and friends. He has told multiple family members that he is not going to die and has destroyed all his copies of funeral arrangements he can locate and asserts that the big earthquake will happen this October. He lives with my sister and her family, a few days ago he wrote a very angry letter to his wife who lives a few miles away by herself and brought up things that happened 20-50 years ago and stated he would never talk to her again and did not even want to see her ever again. They have had their issues but had been getting along the best I could ever remember until a few weeks ago. He and my cousin say that the book has been endorsed by Pres. Monson because my cousin saw it advertised during General Conference. My father is lucid most of the time but we fill we have already lost him because of his obsession with the book and it's soon to be fulfilled prophecies. Even when he is having a good day it is all he wants to talk about or discuss. I do not know what the motivations of the author or person who experienced it are, I just see the effects of it on my family and friends.
ArtMay 23, 2014
I read the book. It's science fiction, pure and simple. So many things wrong with it - read the review about it on FairMormon by Dr. Gregory Smith, MD. I think most people who are caught up by it are seeking to know when events surrounding the second coming will take place and what they will be like. In my opinion, you're more likely to get closer to the truth by watching Star Wars than reading this stuff. Philosophies of men mingled with scripture, pure and simple.
RebeccaMay 19, 2014
(Note: I am adding to a previous comment here) The fact that "Spencer" chooses to reveal in this book that his own wife, whom he is supposed to love and honor, perishes in this great flood is very telling to me. It speaks of the fact that despite having advanced degrees, and also supposedly having great spiritual insight, he doesnt have the slightest clue how to treat the closest members of his own family. Putting fear into the hearts and minds of his own wife and children? Come on! This is not a healthy way to "focus on the family" or put his wife and chiildren first in his life. No where in the book does he state he is frantic over wondering where they are after the great disaster. I would be out of my mind with worry over my spouse and every child. You wouldn't be able to hold me back from crawling to Florida on my knees if needed, to learn what had become of them! And this is a man that is supposed to have a great capacity to love? Sorry. Doesn't ring true to me.
CatherineMay 17, 2014
Visions of Glory has only increased my testimony of the gospel. People comment on how we should be reading the scriptures and praying and listening to the prophet to draw closer to the Lord. Who says we are not doing that? I have read the Book of Mormon more times then I can count. I read the Bible. I pray constantly, and listen to the Prophet and apostles. This book is just additional information that confirms to me the truthfulness of Gods plan. And for those that say "Spencer" shouldn't be speaking of his revelations without permission from God or the proper authority. Who say's he hasn't gotten permission? We are not privy to all of his private dealings. He specifically said for 40 years he did not speak about his revelations. He only did so when the Lord told him it was time. Do you remember the scripture that says that in the last days Men, Women, and children will have revelation poured out unto them. Folks, it is the last days... You will all be hearing more and more about these revelations and prophecies. Open your mind and heart to the spirit of revelation. Remember all of the examples in the scriptures of those who would not listen because they did not hear it from God's lips alone. Many were destroyed. It is time to wake up.
JoshMay 15, 2014
2 Nephi 28:16: Wo unto them that turn aside the just for a thing of naught and revile against that which is good, and say that it is of no worth! For the day shall come that the Lord God will speedily visit the inhabitants of the earth; and in that day that they are fully ripe in iniquity they shall perish. Acts 5:38-39: And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God. I could say more, but I think I've said enough.
Grace RexMay 14, 2014
In seminary when I was young our teacher taught us that "hit pigeons flutter" meaning when hunting only the pidgin that gets hit will flutter its wings and fall to the ground. I too am reading this book and find it disturbing. It is disturbing because I am like one of those hit pidgins. Am I ready for the second coming? Do I have food storage or am I spending all my money on things that don't really matter? Are my thoughts clean enough that anyone can hear them with out me being embarrassed? Since "Spencer" doesn't claim to be receiving revelation for the church or anyone else I can't see how he is doing anything contrary to any commandment. I am completely amazed by many of the comments on this site. For a people who are supposedly trying to be Christlike some are being very unkind to a man who only wanted to share a sacred experience once he was told it was time. Please be kind. I don't know "Spencer" or John Pontius or their families, but my thoughts and prayers are with them. With brothers/sisters/friends like some of you...who needs enemies.
GaryMay 13, 2014
This book is really good. It changed me, wanting to be a better person. I doesn't offer revelation or doctrine. Many people on this forum want to expose Spenser and wonder why he is being anonymous. After reading all the crud people are posting about him, it is no wonder why he wants to be anonymous. I am glad he had the courage to write it and the author to publish it. How can this book turn people away from the gospel? It makes me want to read the scriptures more, go to the temple more and be more serious about who I am. Crazy stuff, huh?!?!?!
Kissy RichMay 13, 2014
I love the scriptures! I love the Gospel! I love the prophet and the General Authorities! I know God lives and Jesus is the Savior. I ground myself in a testimony of Jesus Christ and when I hear or find something that causes others to doubt, I go back to the teachings of the Savior and the scriptures to "hold to the rod". With all that said, I loved this book! It inspired me to be better, to think more often of the Savior and spiritual things. I found myself driving to work and thinking, "We are so close to spiritual things if we just keep our mind focused on spiritual things...and not the day-to-day things." I would then drive home and think, "How often did I think of the Savior? Did I really, "Alway have His spirit...with me" today? The sacrament I take each week directs me to do so. Reading the scriptures and praying everyday helps me focus more on the Savior and the spirit. This book did not detract from that. This book actually caused me desire to work more earnestly towards having the Savior's spirit with me...to read more of the scriptures...to try and prepare myself to be an instrument for good in God's hands...to judge less and love more. When you find something that adds to your belief in the Savior and heads you towards the Savior's words, then I am all for it. There is music and artwork that tends to have me think more of the Savior. Those things didn't come from prophets, they came from people inspired to share. I have never, and will never look at this book as scripture. But, it did head me more towards my beloved Book of Mormon and the other standard works. Anyone reading this post, please reflect on a time you shared a personal "revelation" or experience that increased your testimony. This is exactly what "Spencer" is doing. Lastly, if we, as Saints and followers of Christ, wait for all our instruction, learning, and guidance to come from the Prophet only, we will surely be lost if there is ever a time in our lives when we need personal revelation, or the words of the prophet can't be heard because of worldly situations. It is imperative our testimonies and knowledge and "practice" of personal revelation is in place. My desire to make sure I am following my priesthood leaders, the counsel of the Prophet and the words of the scriptures was deeply increased by reading this book.
GaryMay 8, 2014
Nothing about the claim that this is real prophecy rings true to me. I don't know if the other references in the book are true either though. Anything about the end of the world is going to stress me out however -- true, or untrue. If it would have been a book of fiction, I would have thought it was great. That being said, anything like it would be hard to swallow -- just because it is about the end of the world. Earthquakes, a plague, nuclear attacks, invasions from evil powers. If it really was true visions, the question becomes from whom? Or maybe he was just crazy.
Paul D HarveyMay 5, 2014
After posting my comments on this material, I have read and found that most of the reviews are objectionable. People who think this book is inspirational, it is best they re-read the Book of Mormon and pay particular attention to those who tried to deceive the people with Priest Craft. It is very scary. In the last April 2014 Conference the Brethren and our Prophet warned us that it will be too easy to be deceived in these last days. I am sorry that John Pontius become so gullible to make a buck. I have never read any of his other works and from the type of book he last published might be good warning to avoid any of his other books. However, this "Spencer" person needs to be exposed and brought to stand to account for this masterful fraud. I am grateful for the Scriptures and for a Prophet of the Lord on the Earth today.
Paul D HarveyMay 5, 2014
After posting my comments on this material, I have read and found that most of the reviews are objectionable. People who think this book is inspirational, it is best they re-read the Book of Mormon and pay particular attention to those who tried to deceive the people with Priest Craft. It is very scary. In the last April 2014 Conference the Brethren and our Prophet warned us that it will be too easy to be deceived in these last days. I am sorry that John Pontius become so gullible to make a buck. I have never read any of his other works and from the type of book he last published might be good warning to avoid any of his other books. However, this "Spencer" person needs to be exposed and brought to stand to account for this masterful fraud. I am grateful for the Scriptures and for a Prophet of the Lord on the Earth today.
JeffMay 4, 2014
I found the book extremely powerful in leading people to Christ. There is nothing in the book I found deceptive or self promoting in anyway. I highly recommend reading it. Even if metaphorical for Spenser only, it is a wonderful read, and as I believe, it is much more than that. You will find it a powerful book of one mans personal experiences, that will change your life forever.
Paul D. HarveyMay 2, 2014
Kelly, I posted a review on the book and will put it on this website. As Follows: Don't waste your money on this book. A neighbor recommended this book and after I finished it, I become so ill and had a bad feeling about this so-called out-body-experience, I tore it up and thru it in the trash. I do not recommend this book to anyone. I noted some things about this material: 1) the man named Spencer, is supposedly a sickly person, 2) many of the things he relates about his so-called experience is in direct conflict with many doctrines of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. 3) The man states in his experience that he has no insurance for his many medical problems and my awareness of the many things he relates contradict too much. This is a clue he is profiting his experience to pay his medical bills. 4) This is a real attempt for this Spencer to "set himself up as a light to the world." And 5) This sounds too much like the case of Mark Hoffman who was exposed as a fraud in the 1980's. Mark also murdered some people who knew he was a fraud for trying to deceive the leadership of the LDS Church about some new found documents from Mormon Pioneer days. This is what I feel about this book. He may have had experiences about some things but this is just too wrong for some reason. I wrote a scathing rebuke to the publisher and can't recommend this material to anyone. I got physically ill and a very bad feeling about this material. IT ISN'T WORTH YOUR MONEY.
MargeneApril 30, 2014
I was greatly touched by this book. My own father has had visions and dreams he shared with us kids. He talking about things beyond the veil - in a sacred manner - and that is something I am familiar with and love studying. Many things rang true to me and several times reading parts of this book I felt the Spirit. I had several "aha" moments - probably because he touched on things I have studied and wondered about myself - so many things fit together like a puzzle for me. There are places I wept while reading and other times I felt great joy. I know it's not a topic for everyone, and it doesn't inspire everyone who reads it. But I do believe that God does reveal his mysteries to us as we seek them. It has strengthened my testimony and made me feel closer to my Savior and excited for things to come. It has added to my already heightened feeling to be getting prepared, spiritually and temporally for things that are coming. PS - I remember when Betty Eadie's book "Embraced by the light" came out over two decades ago. Everyone either loved her book or questioned it. Her experience was very comprehensive and amazing. (although VofG supasses that now). She went around doing firesides at school auditoriums - I went to one even. My family and I loved her book and were very inspired by it. However, she got attacked and nitpicked with nearly everything she wrote by some people - and someone even published a book called "Embarrassed by the Light" going over everything she shared attempting to discredit it by quotes and scripture (their own interpretation of it) and blatantly making fun of her experience. I can certainly understand Spencer's reluctance to have this published and why he chose to be anonymous.
JeanApril 29, 2014
I read this book because it was designated as our ward book club reading. I am a return missionary, and have taught missionaries. John Pontius has leaked his personal information to church members via hard core publishing and although his intentions may have been good, the information in this book is sensationalistic. The content tangents readers off from the gospel of Christ to the adrenaline inducing cataclysmic finale of the second coming. I found many parts of it uncomfortable, graphic, and self-promoting. I found it hard to sleep many nights after reading it, and have made a stronger resolve to read the scriptures and turn to personal prayer. This doesn't mean Visions of Glory turned me to Christ. Rather, it nudged me away from sappy, sensational material and toward the true core of Christ's message. I know many people in the church who self-soothe with certain tangents of gospel doctrine, whether that be the 10 tribes, life after death experiences, calling and election, and so forth. When I hear them talk it always sounds a little sci-fi and with the tone of "we are in the know." This is exactly how this book came across to my heart and I am very relieved to see many in this post use a bit of logic and sensibility as the Pied Piper comes along leading the way to "Zion."
JohnApril 6, 2014
I felt the spirit in reading the book. I read it twice more and gained even more from it. It makes me want to be a better person and reduces my apprehension as to the latter day events. It really changed my perspective. Read the introduction carefully. Spencer kept the experiences private for many years. He revealed them at a time he was instructed to. It made me want to prepare NOW. I don't think this kind of thing could ever come through official church channels. Interesting about Deseret Book deciding not to sell in in their stores. However, Deseret Book owns Seagull Book and Visions of Glory is a huge seller for them. They had hundreds of copies in their St. George store last summer. VOG is also sold in the BYU Bookstore. Nothing in VOG detracts from the messages of the prophets and apostles. This was in my view a book for those who had "ears to hear". If it came through the apostles and prophets the questions would never stop and the Church would be held up for ridicule. I am grateful for Spencer and John Pontius having the courage to publish this material. Having said all of the above, we must read the scriptures and keep our eyes on the prophet and the apostles.
AnonymousApril 4, 2014
I have I have felt several different emotions come over me as I have read through some of the comments posted - all I can think to say would be this... To the dear widow Sister Pontius, God bless you and your family through your trials and saddening times. I truly believe your husband, along with all the other individuals whom have posted on this blog, are genuinely good and noble individuals who seek to serve the Savior - we all know there is no greater goal in this life than to know Christ. Secondly, I hope no one has replaced this literature over their daily scripture studying, and I'll bet the author wanted it to be the same exact way. Lastly, if we're worried about the last days, I would hope we would turn to prayer and the scriptures, because we also know there is no replacement for the guiding source of truth found therein. Take care to all and God bless.
C.J. FisherMarch 31, 2014
I have a great respect for Brother Ogden, as a great scriptorian. I appreciate his willingness to put himself out there to open criticism so that others, like myself, might ponder both sides. There was a similar book out many years back, and it did not do a lot of good. I chose to believe that if God wanted the world to know something, it would come through the Prophet. To each his own.
Darcy HarefeldMarch 26, 2014
Amen to every word that Maureen Olsen said. Thank you Maureen.
Ted SumrallMarch 16, 2014
Who gave Brother Ogden to think on behalf of God? If The Lord told Spencer that he should publish this experience, then he should do so. I have read it through once and am reading it again. No where does he encourage anyone to oppose the Prophet - but quite the contrary. Me thinks the gentleman protests too much.
DWGMarch 9, 2014
I do not understand the comments about this book being "disturbing" or "dangerous". How so? It is clearly stated in the book (more than once) that it is highly personal and NOT doctrine. In no way does the author or Spencer set themselves up as a light to follow. I found nothing in here contrary to revealed doctrine. Several people mentioned it contradicted doctrine- where? Yes sometimes personal revelation is kept personal, but many times individuals are inspired to share an experience at the right time to inspire and uplift others. I know it has happened to me. In "Teachings of Presidents of the Church" Lorenzo Snow- he reveals a highly personal experience to us, and his granddaughter on pages 238-239 which involved seeing the Savior. Should he not have shared that? But it's okay because he's the prophet. After I finished this book I was inspired to be better prepared, go to the temple more often, and become more Christlike. I have no idea how a book that is "dangerous" inspires that kind of feeling. How in any way shape or form does this book lead anyone "astray". I have come to the conclusion that a large number of people critical here of the book have not read it. "Spencer"makes it clear that he only revealed these things when the Spirit said it was right. Otherwise, he kept them to himself. ,
AdamMarch 8, 2014
I loved the book. I am thankful it was published. I feel the messages contained within were provided from a loving Heavenly Father to help us, a very complacent bunch, to prepare for the amazing and terrible things about to take place. I study the scriptures. I believe there is a common mistake we members of the church make, by thinking all of the destruction will happen somewhere else and to someone else. We don
Terri PontiusMarch 5, 2014
I am John Pontius's widow. I receive questions nearly every day about John's standing in the Church based on some regrettably inaccurate comments by some readers of Kelly Ogden's articles on Visions of Glory. I would like to set the record straight on my husband's character and standing in the Church. My husband was always in good standing with the Church. He held a temple recommend throughout his entire adult life (beginning with his mission). He was always very supportive of the Brethren and the Church. Anyone who has read any of his doctrinal books knows of John's deep commitment to and love for the gospel and of his unwavering support of and for the Church. He was faithful, humble, sincere, believing, devoted Church member to the end.
LisaFebruary 18, 2014
Here's my take. I kept asking the question to myself while reading this book, "Did he really experience this, or was it just a simple dream" Is this really true?" I NEVER have to question the truth of the scriptures, like I did while reading this book. That says A LOT about the validity of this book. Also,,, if we are to know these things, don't you think it would or SHOULD come from the prophet? Excuse my harshness, but... Who is he (Spencer) to put himself above the prophet and church leaders?!?!
StanFebruary 13, 2014
Like several have already commented, Moroni chapter 7 has the very simple formula for making righteous judgment. I have read many NDE accounts, some LDS, most not. Not a single one of them has lead me away from Christ or His Church, quite the opposite. It is possible to take a NDE account and give it too much weight and use it as a foundation for leaving the Church. Same account, completely opposite affects is possible. I understand Bro. Ogden's position. His basic and primary criticisms of this book are that it should not have been written, kept private. First, the Lord commands and revokes. This process has occurred many times in the scriptures and Church History. Second, if Spencer did violate the admonition not to share these experiences then, I believe additional experiences would have ceased. Has that happened? I do not know, it appears not. Third, the possible violation of the admonition not to share in no way diminishes the account. If there was a violation, that will be between Spencer and his Savior. The incident of the lost manuscript in Church History is instructive. The clear mistakes made by Joseph, Martin, and anyone else does not diminish the validity and truefulness of the manuscript. I appreciated this book and the other NDE I have read. I do not believe they violate our doctrine but thankfully validate much of it.
DanFebruary 12, 2014
I'm not sure how my previous post ended up with these errors, but to clarify: I called two Deseret Book stores to ask if they had Visions of Glory in stock. Both said that they do not carry it. I asked the main store in downtown Salt Lake why, and they explained that after it was reviewed, upper management decided not to carry it in stores. Likewise, Deseret Book does NOT make it available for purchase online. They will only let you "special order" it (like any bookstore would do for customers trying to find books they don't carry), but they clearly have chosen with careful deliberation not to promote it, or even stock it.
TomFebruary 10, 2014
I love this book and am grateful to those who made it available. Tom
Guy SFebruary 4, 2014
As a writer and member of the church, I find it disturbing that John Pontius, no matter how good his intent may be, took it upon himself to "interpret" and divulge sacred doctrines he has not been authorized by the Lord or his duly appointed servants of the First Presidency to share with the world at large. The scriptures and teachings of the prophets make it clear we are not to share some things with others, not publish them for the world which cannot understand and appreciate them. His actions are not far off from those who claim revelation for the church and have no authority to do so, ultimately leading himself and others away from the pure doctrines of the Gospel and into apostasy if care is not taken. It's a good reminder for all of us to be cautious with our enthusiasm over new knowledge received through the spirit that is intended for us alone.
C. DobbsJanuary 31, 2014
This book brought me feelings of comfort & joy; similar to the strength I feel when singing "The Messiah". It felt like I was drinking from a fountain, similar to the way I feel when I study the scriptures & feel closer to our Savior and Father God. I believe many will love reading it; and we should not cause contention over it; but as has been shared, invite the Spirit to guide us. Thanks for the opportunity to comment.
Holly DaknisJanuary 30, 2014
I found "Visions of Glory" to be a heart-felt answer to my prayers. The author was clear to repeatedly point out that the account was his experiences, that it was not doctrine for the church, that there were metaphorical parts to it, and that he finally felt at peace to share what he had kept inside of him for so long. Bless Spencer and John Pontius for their arduous task in putting words to paper in such a way that many have been strengthened in the message of God's love for us, we are NOW preparing to be in the presence of the Lord/Zion if we will allow ourselves to be, and that we need not fear but be of good cheer in the workings of the Lord. As a convert of many decades I cried while reading some of Spencer's accounts as I have had some similar ones myself, but never would have been able to describe them as beautifully and accurately as John did. I had prayed about and studied the scriptures for years for a clearer understanding on how the last days would or could come to pass, and "Visions of Glory" helped frame up my understanding and remove fears. I came away with a truly sweet peace about the marvelous works and purposes of the Lord in the last days that I did not have prior to reading the book. "Visions of Glory" did not take away from my testimony of God, Christ, the Restored Gospel, Priesthood authority, Prophets -- it was an answer to my prayers for a better understanding of how the latter-days might unfold, and I am now much more at peace inside with the processes of the Lord. I cheerfully and thankfully raise my hand as "guilty" -- the book was written and published for me. Thanks John and Spencer! Most Sincerely, Sister Holly Daknis
M JJanuary 27, 2014
I also agree with and appreciate the words of Maureen Olson and Jerald L Erickson as well as Sister Terri Pontus. I have met Spencer and know persons who know him well, that he is without guile. I also appreciate Curt's testimony of him.
Lacey ArchibaldJanuary 27, 2014
I just would like to say that we all are at different spiritual levels, and that some people aren't ready to read this book. So pray about it before reading it. I however, found this book to be amazing and I look forward to the future. I read the scriptures as well and just finished reading the book of Revelations and it all makes since to me now. We are told in the scriptures that anyone that has been warned, to warn his neighbor.
Michael MansfieldJanuary 27, 2014
After reading Dr. Ogden's article, the FAIR book review, and the comments above, I believe that there are generally two ways to look at "Visions of Glory." One, as a story or parable to explain to other how to live their life, or Two, as the sharing of a very personal experience. I personally believe that the sharing of personal experiences helps to build a Zion Society. I did not feel that the sharing of Spencer's experience was meant by Brother Pontius or Spencer to promote to others a pathway or revelation for others. I do not detect the markings of Priestcraft - as indicated in some of the comments above. I simply felt that the story was shared as one man's personal experience. Some experiences shared confirmed my own beliefs, others stretched my understanding, and others stretched my understanding. I don't have an expectation that all of Spencer's experiences will become my experiences - or the experiences of anyone else - since I believe that we all walk pathways designed for us by a loving Father. I, for one, feel blessed to have had Spencer's story shared - since I do not look to it for any interpretation of Gospel Doctrine. No seer stone in this story that I am aware of. I also don't believe that its publication has brought Spencer any personal promotion or financial reward. I trust it for what it is - the sharing of a very personal experience. I am grateful when anyone opens themself up to such examination by others.
RachelJanuary 26, 2014
We read the book as it was a gift. I didn't feel a particularly bad feeling; in this country people have the freedom to write and publish anything they want. I respect that right. Unfortunately, two aspects of this book really bother me: the author withholding his name and the description of him as a Spirit being asking permission to enter another's body. I love to think about my family members on the other side. I do not believe the righteous spirits have power to enter another's body and know their thoughts, feelings and experiences.
BruceJanuary 26, 2014
I have two concerns about Brother Ogden's objections. First, we would not have much of the scriptures and none of Joseph Smith's First Vision is people had been unwilling to share their personal spiritual experiences with us. Second, I have been in the meetings prior to endowment sessions in the temple where the speakers proceeded to give their personal interpretations of the symbols and meanings of the ordinance we were about to participate in. If this is wrong, why are we holding these meetings? I have thoroughly disagreed with some of the interpretations presented there, but they are presented as authoritative. Would love to hear your answer.
DawnJanuary 25, 2014
I read the book with a prayerful heart, seeking to know truth. I can honestly say that I felt, through more pages than not, the 'burning within', a manifestation of truth and the righteous intent of Spencer and of John Pontius. Sometimes fear can rule over faith. Perhaps there is too much controversy that is tending stir up unnecessary disputation. Each person can decide on their own with the help from the spirit...
Carol BriidgesJanuary 25, 2014
Brother Ogden, I very much appreciate the time and effort you put into this article. I hadn't heard of this book before, but i would probably not have read it anyway. Personal revelation is supposed to be exactly that- personal. When someone tells all and sundry about it, you immediately know that the Adversary is affecting their judgment. In my opinion, that makes everything they say about their revelation a bit suspect, since I know their judgment is at least a bit off, even though they may have good intentions.
candy LeflerJanuary 25, 2014
I agree whole heartedly. I thought the same scriptures when I was given the book to read.
Greg WrightJanuary 24, 2014
I find it interesting that so many people are defensive of the stewardship of the brethren when it comes to guiding us through the deceptions of the world and yet the brethren have not warned us about the deceptions of Visions of Glory. They are well informed. It is inconceivable that they are unaware of it. If it is that big of a problem, why haven't the brethren addressed it? And the argument that Spencer had no right or authority to share his experience does not invalidate the possibility that he had an experience. Besides he said he shared it with John Pontius when the Lord gave him permission to do so. How do we know that the Lord did not give him permission? The fact that Spencer isn't an Apostle doesn't mean he could not have been given a message and been told to publish a book about it. Not all inspiration comes through Apostles. Was Samuel the Lamanite an Apostle? Kelly Ogden is right that our foundation for doctrines should be the scriptures. But "Visions" didn't declare that the things taught to him were doctrines that any of us should be obligated to. He just told us what he experienced. We are free to reject any of it. The scriptures don't contain all truths. In fact they tell us that there are many eternal truths beyond our ability to understand at this time. So we should not be surprised that people who visit the spirit world get educations above and beyond what this mortal world can offer. The brethren are free to correct any false ideas that come from such books and they occasionally do when false beliefs take us in the wrong direction. But what direction does "Visions" direct us to do? I got the impression that the most important thing we could do is be faithful and learn to listen to the Spirit, something the brethren are constantly telling us. I also got the impression that storing more food might be a good idea, also something the brethren have been telling us for decades. So where is the harm in preparing for disaster and being more sensitive to the Spirit?
DHJanuary 23, 2014
My heart goes out to Sister Pontius. We all know we are past due for a major earthquake. When one occurs, what do we think may happen? Yes, I found 'Spencer's' accounts disturbing--just as I will find a major earthquake disturbing (if it happens in my lifetime and if I live through it). Therefore, this book left me with a renewed dedication to living as the best person I can and as close to the Spirit as I can. "All of this puts me in mind of a quotation often attributed to either Martin Luther or St. Francis: 'If the world were going to end tomorrow, I would plant a tree today.' I
HollyJanuary 23, 2014
A Gallup poll states that over 13 million people in the U.S. have experienced a near death experience. Many of them have kept the experience to themselves FOR YEARS for fear of being labeled "crazy" or being castigated for what they saw. As resuscitation technology increases, undoubtedly many more people could experience the phenomena of separating from their physical body and then being returned to it. Two respected surgeons (Mary Neal, MD, and Eben Alexander MD) who experienced resuscitation after clinical death have documented their experience in books which have been on the best seller list, as well as being featured on Anderson Cooper's televised special on life after death. In 1975 Raymond Moody, MD published one of the first books on his own near death experience, "Life After Life," . NDE's cut across all segments of society and are found in all faiths. Many of them have reported "visions" of things that would happen in their future life, as in "Fast Lane to Heaven." Their message is the same- WE ARE LOVED and SERVE OTHERS. People want to know what happens when they die. That's all about the plan of happiness. That's why these people share their stories with us. They are loving messengers. We live in a great time! It's just like foretold in Joel 2:28-32. Come on people, LOVE ONE ANOTHER :D
DanJanuary 22, 2014
It turns out that the person who told me that Deseret Book had begun selling this book was mistaken. I just called two stores to ask if they had it in stock. Both said that they do not carry it. I asked the main store in downtown Salt Lake why and they explained that when it was reviewed, upper management decided not to carry it stores. Likewise, Deseret Book does make it available for purchase online. You can only "special order" it (like any bookstore would do for customers looking for books they don't carry), but they clearly have chosen not to promote it or even stock it.
RonJanuary 22, 2014
I trust we will not get too divided on this book. There are many other authors in the church who have written books containing accounts of perhaps spiritual truths or happenings. Whether or not they are true is not to be left to the author nor the reader to decide. Moronic 10:5, "And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things" is where all should look for their personal confirmations. After all your personal relationship with God is paramount here. If God tells you it is true it may be that that truth you are prepared for; perhaps another is not. I would however stress that the prophet and apostles are first, then the scriptures in my hierarchy of confidence in church statements, experiences, and guidance.
Edward FairchildJanuary 22, 2014
The doctrinal idea that "God exists outside of time and can move back and forth through the construct of time" is contrary to doctrine as I understand it. Brigham Young, John Taylor, B.H. Roberts, and John Widtsoe have all indicated that God lives within the universe and time as we perceive it. Our time is part of eternity. Joseph Smith indicated that the past, present, and future are all before God, that does not mean that he is not planted in a specific time just like the rest of us, just as his physical body exists in one specific location just like the rest of us.
KevinJanuary 22, 2014
For a church full of members that all joined because of personal revelation from God, and frequently share that revelation over the pulpit, I'm surprised at the large number of brothers and sisters that take a few quotes (out of context) to castigate the authors. As Terri Pontius stated, this book was one man's account - authorized by the Spirit - to share. Just as readily as the author of this article did, we could easily find as many quotes from prophets telling us to seek the face of The Lord, to be led by the Spirit and do whatever it tells us, to seek to be prophets ourselves ("I would that all were prophets"). I personally came to know my Saviour through this path this book shows and am troubled that someone would take the time to publically turn readers away because someone is sharing their testimony that revelation continues, The Lord prepares His people, and that we have brothers and sisters who are experiencing the great blessings of the Gospel. The final pages of the Book of Mormon warn against those who don't.
DonnaJanuary 21, 2014
When I read this book it did not turn me off. In the long run, I think the measure ofa book or a person has to be its fruits.. Take it or leave it. For some - it will uplift them and strengthen their love of God - for others it will not. Over and over again the men involved in this book assured us that they were not not pretending to be General Authorities to be the last word on Church doctrine, but were doing their best to share something that they hoped would increase our faith and our love of the gospel and help us to understand -- for one thing, the gathering in the latter days. If you have ever had a spiritual experience then you know that in some ways they are often difficult to interpret, and I felt that the writer here did a very good job in striving to put into words what
Bruce GilbertJanuary 21, 2014
Judgement is meant for identification and not condemnation. Too, there is irony in finding fault with fault finders; therefore I shall forebear. One should ask themselves why would somebody share a personal experience of such nature? Without discernment and knowledge it is difficult to ascribe such motives. Shouldn't we assume the best ones? Such is the case of those who have charity. I have read the book and didn't feel threatened by it. It was and remains shelved in the back of my mind as "possibility." I am grateful for the opportunity to read. Too, I am grateful for testimonies. I have heard "Spencer's" voice via a recorded interview. There is no guile there.
Jim January 21, 2014
what I see in this article is simply men reasoning with men. The easiest way to know if John Ponitus and Spencer were commanded to publish the book is just ask Heavenly Father. Done!
ShaunaJanuary 21, 2014
I appreciate Maureen Olson's words and fully concur.
Sharon January 21, 2014
My mother who is 93 years old has had some spiritual experiences which, to her and her family have been very revealing and sacred. During these last remaining years of her life, she believes her story might be of some worth in bringing peace and comfort to others who have experienced some of the same types of grief and hardship she has endured. There are many gifts of the Spirit, and we all have our own special gifts. My mother has the gift of discernment. I believe that Mr. Pontius was given this gift also as a means to encourage, uplift, and teach others; and his book was meant to do exactly that. We are living in a time when we need all the encouragement we can get, both from the Gospel of Jesus Christ and from each other. We are told in the scriptures that in the last days, young men shall have visions and old men shall dream dreams. Nowhere in the scriptures does it say that those visions and dreams are limited to only our Prophet and Church authorities. They are for anyone who has the need for a special witness and is living righteously enough to obtain those blessings. They are also given to build our testimonies and to stengthen and help others. It took a great deal of faith and courage for Brother Pontius to take such a chance; to be willing to possibly be doubted; I'm certain he knew he would be inviting criticism from those he only intended to uplift. Indeed, we all need to be more valiant; to garner the strength to be willing to share our spiritual experiences and to raise our voices in defense of the truth. To do this is becoming more important with every passing day. This may be a large part of our purpose here on earth. I'm grateful for the courage and talent of this insightful man.
Julie WoodJanuary 21, 2014
I am concerned to read from fellow members of the Church some of the hateful comments I have read. I personally know John and Teri Pontius, and this name calling and attacking of such a wonderful man is totally without merit. If ever there was a more charitable and Christ like man, I would be hard pressed to personally know him. John loved the Savior. He followed his teachings to the very end. His depth of the scriptures was deep. He knew what he was writing, "Spencer's Account of what he experienced." I am acquainted with "Spencer". He also is a gentle giant. He is well educated, soft spoken and without guile. He has no reason to fabricate anything, he saw what he saw. I know the story behind this book. Many of you have misspoken. Leave it alone. If you don't agree with it, leave it alone. Don't crucify these men; they are and were faithful in their memberships, and in their personal lives. They are and were true disciples of Christ. John's wife Teri, is equally faithful in her discipleship in Christ. She is truly a wonderful woman. We would all benefit by being as kind as these three individuals are and were. I fear Brother Ogden your critique has incited the worst behavior in some of the comments that have be made, and that you probably didn't intend for this to get so out of hand.
ScottHJanuary 21, 2014
A fellow I know experienced some faith challenges a few years back after reading several "LDS-ish" visionary books. He finally visited with his bishop about his concerns. The bishop, a down to earth farmer, asked my friend how studiously he had been studying his scriptures and church lessons and how he was doing with his personal and family prayers. My friend admitted that he could be doing better in most of these areas. "The problem," said the bishop, "is that you're doing too much drinking downstream. The stream is most pure where it bursts from the rock. It's less so after it has run through a few pastures where the cattle roam." The bishop's point was not that one should never seek for truth beyond church approved sources (scriptures, prophetic statements, church curriculum, prayer, the Holy Ghost), but that one should make sure that these sources are the primary and strong base of one's spiritual foundation before venturing into other realms. The Spirit can bear witness of truth regardless of where that truth may be found. But the purer the source, the easier this process is.
GreatscotJanuary 21, 2014
Whenever I hear people say they should read the scriptures instead of a certain book, I have to ask whether that means I shouldn't read any book except scriptures. If so, it would then follow that I shouldn't watch TV or spend time on websites. Yet here we all are. I will read the book and try to listen to the spirit as to the truth of it.
roxanneJanuary 21, 2014
well done article i am reminded of something else - when reading - listen to the Holy Ghost who will tell you the truth of all things. these are final days and we need to be watchful.
JanetJanuary 21, 2014
I was looking forward to reading the book after seeing it advertised, and having previously read brother Pontius' book "Following the Light of Christ into His Presence." As some expressed, I thoroughly enjoyed the first part, as my own personal spiritual experiences verified what brother Spencer told, but the second part was more difficult to understand, only because I have not yet had the personal experience to relate to it all. Some of it was new and a little questionable to me - because of my lack of experience - so I just let it go, not judging him for what he so clearly remembers and tells, and trusting that the Lord will give me what I am ready to receive when He feels I am ready for it. I would recommend that others do the same. Just read others' experiences for your profit and learning and know that you do not know what others may. And remember not to judge, for 'tis high to be a judge"; maybe the Lord did tell him to publish it. Just let it go.
Jeff WhitlockJanuary 21, 2014
One of the principles of the restored gospel is that those who reveal things from God work in the light, not in a hidden manner. This principle has been reiterated by the leaders of the church a number of times. Any prophetic vision has always come from an identified prophet - not an anonymous source. That "Spencer" wants to remain anonymous is, to me, a significant red flag since it contradicts this basic principle of gospel knowledge coming through verifiable, well-lit (so to speak) sources. There are people with significant gifts of spiritual discernment who have concerns about this book. To say that those who have such concerns are not spiritually mature or are not ready for "meat" smacks of a lack of understanding about some very basic principles of the gospel that need to be applied in looking at this book. We're given a number of methods to determine what is true, including the Spirit, prayer, comparison with revealed doctrines, application of gospel principles, our own intellect, witnesses of authorized prophets, etc. When all of those methods come together to confirm something, then we can be sure that there is a high degree of reliability in what we're evaluating. Unfortunately, Visions of Glory falls short using a number of these methodologies. People misinterpret good feelings when reading the book to apply to the book itself, and not specifically to true concepts it may contain. Inconsistencies contained in the book are glossed over as irrelevant. Clear gospel principles pertaining to church government and stewardship are discarded. Anonymous sources are accepted without question as telling the truth. This book should not in any way serve as a part of ones testimony or foundation of faith in Jesus Christ or His Church. It certainly can be read out of interest, but as has been noted, too many Latter-day Saints have a tendency to accept faith promoting writings uncritically as gospel truth. Such sandy foundations are a danger in the last days.
TommyJanuary 21, 2014
I read the book and as many have already stated I make it a matter of prayer before I read many of the books I read. Some people have stated that if it isn't written by the "brethren" then it shouldn't be taken seriously. I'm currently reading a book written by Elder David Bednar about increasing our learning. There's a lot to be said for not needing to be commanded in all things. Upon reading Visions of Glory I was energized to be better prepared and to listen more intently to the Spirit. " If there is anything virtuous, lovely or of good report" I seek after these things. Spencer does not claim to be a Prophet, Seer, or Relevator. He is not holding seminars, etc. And, just as a matter of record, Lehi's wife and a couple of his children didn't exactly follow easily.
Spencer (Not the one in the Book)January 21, 2014
I very much agree with Terri Pontius' comment. This book was not scripture, but did uplift me to be a better person, just as the scriptures do. Her comment was this: "I urge all readers to either find spiritual edification in this book, or simply leave it alone as you would any other book that does not speak truth to your soul." I chose to find spiritual edification and I did. I have not lost my testimony of God the Father or in His Son, Jesus Christ or his chosen Prophet Thomas S. Monson. I'm still a strong active member of the Church who follows his called leaders, And I had an very enjoyable read. If you are afaid of losing your testimony or falling away from the Church because of what someone wrote as a personal experience, then don't read this book, or any other books that relate experiences.
Tara HJanuary 21, 2014
In response to Karen's comment, who appears to be the wife of "Steve", Lehi and Nephi had prophetic visions and were instructed to share them. They were prophets. Your husband may have had visions, and they may have had some personal and spiritual significance to him, however, his visions can not be considered "prophetic" by LDS standards, as he is not a prophet. I agree that Heavenly Father can send us personal revelation, however, I agree with DKO that those should be kept personal. As it is, people are now trying to find personal significance in "Steve's" visions and this will only lead people away from the prophets and, therefore, away from Heavenly Father.
Gary RoushJanuary 21, 2014
Terri, Thanks for sharing your insights and testimony. I was saddened to hear your husband passed away shortly after. I have read the book more than two times so that I can strengthen myself in appreciation of what it takes to become a person prepared for Zion. My family has read the book and found themselves enlightened by it. The other books written by your husband are precious for reading, too. Thanks for being a part of his life and helping him make this possible. To those naysayers and negative remarks who seemed to act like the Pharisees of old, I say to them to wake up and recognize the good in such things, There are many people who have appreciated John's words and I would encourage more people to read these books for their benefit. Such books help the scriptures become more alive in understanding. God bless you.
SheilaJanuary 21, 2014
It amazes me to see all the negative comments, warnings, etc. about this book. I read it and I liked it a lot. The first part was very comforting and enlightening to me. I truly think I am stronger for having read it. The second part, which related to the Second Coming, and the events leading up to it, seemed a bit "out there" to me, and so I just read that part as creative fiction, and let it fade away from my mind. Perhaps there are valuable messages in this book for anyone who is ready to hear; but for others, the way the message is presented, or the timing, are not right for that particular person. That's where the gift of discernment comes in. And to those who castigate "Spencer" for not revealing his real name - the reaction to this article certainly shows why that was a wise decision.
LeeJanuary 21, 2014
Wow, i am so saddened by the persecution of Spencer and John. But i had a feeling it would happen. I agree with all the Pro Visions of Glory comments and i'm sorry there are so few of them but God's children are all on different levels...some are not ready for meat. The book has helped me spiritually in so many ways. As i read my scriptures, Isaiah has become clearer to me...Zion is clearer. I thank my Father in Heaven for Spencer and John and Terri and all those who are like-minded....see you in Zion!! :)
DanielJanuary 21, 2014
I read the article and many of the comments. I have not read the book but I would like to point out three things. 1. I know at least two people who have read it - one who is very well-rounded in the gospel - and well-read, the other may be one of those who may not have finished seminary or read the full Book of Mormon. The results for the first friend is that he suggested I read it - favorably. The other suggested I read it. The result for him was that he came back to church and brought his family with him. One of those things taught in the Book of Mormon is that you can judge something good if it brings someone to Christ and teaches that Jesus is the Son of God. The result for my second friend was that it brought him back to church. That would seem to me then that it is a good book. 2. You may want to read Acts 2:17-18 "17 And it shall come to pass in the last days [our day - 2014], saith God, I will pour out of my cSpirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: 18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:" The Lord speaks to all his servants - whether in the church or out of it, whether in high places or low. But if someone is to prophesy, is he or she to prophesy to himself/herself? No. So in this case, this man may be prophesying - and if you are not part of those who are influenced by his prophesying, then don't bash him... Move on. His message is not for you. But "if there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report, or praiseworthy, we seek after these things." I will report to you that this book is of good report. There may be some things in it that you don't agree with, fine. Skip it. That is how things are in this world. You will not find perfection in everything - because our world around us is a mirror of ourselves, but we receive all things in gratitude. 3. As for the book being "authorized" or "unauthorized", what about the brethren and their books? They are just books just as this man's book is his own. If you were to think about that one, the books the brethren write are not authorized either - authorized being canonized scripture. May you all have a beautiful day and do all in your power with your influence to uplift others.
AaronJanuary 21, 2014
Bravo...your words are my thoughts. Thank you.
John RobertsonJanuary 21, 2014
Great summary of doctrinal statements. My only qualm about your article is that while you summarize our doctrine on the matter very well in your list of quotations, you hold off from frankly drawing the conclusion they imply about the book in question, holding instead to words like "concerned". When the statements of the prophets clearly dictated that something is not of God, and many are uncertain, go ahead and make the conclusion their teachings imply without hesitation. Anyway, great summary of our doctrine on the matter through your quotations. I was familiar with some of them, but others are new and I am thrilled to have them.
V. Blaine CutlerJanuary 20, 2014
Bro Ogden. I personally am grateful for your insight regarding this book. I couldn't agree with your evaluation more. I am a student of the gospel and while I found Visions of Glory very interesting I also found it to be troubling in many Areas. For me I will always be very cautious in reading books that seem to create or suggest new knowledge that has not previously been revealed through the Lords prophets. For me I will always look to the Lords prophet here on earth. V. Blaine Cutler
Gary January 20, 2014
I have read the book. It has answered questions that i thought about and helped make my answers make more sense. I am thankful he was willing to write such a book. He says he was finally allowed to share what he had learned. I thank him for his courage. It helps me understand what it will take to be worthy of being a part of zion. If any of you don't it out have negative feelings, that's your own to decide. I did not have negative feelings and appreciated it. I did not have any bad feelings about what was written. It also had enabled me to appreciate the scriptures even more.
TomJanuary 20, 2014
To me, a major point of writing the book and releasing the visions given to Spencer was its overall theme of Zion. Perhaps I missed that overall theme in the critique as well as the comment section. That is the theme of John Pontius and his writings. The call to Zion is the call that those who most enjoy the book are hearing. Why should we argue and contend over this book and those like unto it. We each hear our call from God and allow each to hear what God has for them. Indeed we are far from becoming a Zion people.
CurtJanuary 20, 2014
Brother Ogden's article was a thoughtful meditation on a marvelous and thought-provoking book. Many of the negative comments from Meridian readers, however, could have been written by the Pharisees, who ridiculed the Savior's "heretical" teachings. or by the Prophet Joseph Smith's detractors, who accused him of many of the same things of which "Spencer" stands accused, ranging from "priestcraft" to "hallucinations" to "fabrications to sell books." And why? Because he wanted to share his beautiful visions with a Church and world starving for new light. "Scriptures, scriptures, we already have scriptures, why would we want to have the visions promised in the last days?" Do you detractors not believe the scriptures when they say that "children and old men" will receive visions in the latter days? I know Brother "Spencer," and he is one of the most humble and devoted followers of the Savior on the planet, completely without guile. He is incapable of the unChristian-like things you have dredged up from the deep reservoirs of fear and hatred in your closed hearts and minds. The last thing Spencer is trying to do is start his own movement or call into question the prophetic wisdom of modern-day prophets. If you don't like the book, don't read it; you don't have to stone him.
LisaJanuary 20, 2014
Terri Pontius, thank you for posting your comments here. I am with you. This is one of the few non-scriptural books I've read twice because it was so spiritually edifying and I am so grateful to both John and "Spencer" for their courage and obedience in publishing it. It is interesting to me that the commenters here appear to be in one of two camps: follow the prophet or follow the Spirit, with the prophet-followers far outnumbering the Spirit-followers. I know that's not a fair nor entirely accurate summation of people's hearts, but it sure does feel like the Pharisees vs. the Christians. That's what concerns me.
AudreyJanuary 20, 2014
My nephew sent us the book and I read it out loud to my husband during a road trip, so we read it together. It's important to remember this is Spencer's vision, for him. BUT he was given permission to share it with US for a reason. We need to read and take for ourselves what is there for us, and leave the rest behind. My husband and I have continued on to read John Pontius's other books "The Triumph of Zion" which actually blew me away, and my husband has started reading "Following the Light of Christ into his Presence". We would never have gone on to read the other two had it not been for my nephew sending us Visions of Glory first. It was to prepare us for Triumph of Zion and the messages in those 2 books. If you aren't "prepared" to receive the message there won't be a message for you. (These are not the drones you are looking for). Comes to mind.
KarenJanuary 20, 2014
I am a lifetime member, returned missionary, and have sent all of my children on missions. I embrace the gospel but am concerned by our lack of willingness to allow individuals their agency. Why are we so fearful of our members reading a book by another member? One of my favorite authors was recently ex-communicated for expressing his views. I know of many members in significant church callings that have serious sin in their lives. Why can we tolerate pornography and adultery but we can't tolerate someone writing a book expressing their own experiences/thoughts/opinions?
Debra AlmacheJanuary 20, 2014
Every saint should know that if you would receive revelation and were commanded not to reveal or recorded it could you do it and for profit financially without receiving a consequence for the transgressib on or sin. I would Fear from my life and my soul. Which leads me to believe this is pure fraud or deep disrespect for the commands of God and angels.
DanielJanuary 20, 2014
My wife had heard about this book from several people and brought the book home for us to read together. We both stopped reading the book and felt it was not appropriate to read of such spiritual experiences not meant for us and not endorsed by the church or our prophet to print such material. We felt uncomfortable reading it and threw it in the garbage. It was disturbing. I believe in the last days that people and books like this will slowly distract people away from doing those things that are of most importance. This book reminded me of one word. Priestcraft.
MaryannJanuary 20, 2014
A number of years ago I attended a meeting at BYU where Daniel Ludlow was speaking. He told of a survey that was done among the Latter-day saints asking if they had read the Book of Mormon. Brother Ludlow said that the results were very disappointing. I wonder how many people who are so excited about reading questionable and unauthorized accounts have truly studied the Book of Mormon more than once or even once? People who write and have these unauthorized books published have an enormous ego when they suppose for one moment that they are somehow a "spokesman" for the Lord to the public. If we want the highest degree of spiritual enlightenment, we will drink from the pure waters of the words of living prophets and the divine scriptures the Lord has given us. To use questionable sources to shore up our testimonies is to plant ourselves on very sandy soil. How many people who have been carried away by this latest "sensational account" could give a detailed report about the contents of our last General Conference?
Jon GronemanJanuary 20, 2014
After teaching gospel doctrine classes for many years I have found that some people who are seeking easy answers to lifes situations tend to gravitate to these type of books for the easily believable branches off of the main trunk. Unfortunately even the very elect are deceived. I am sure the book is a good read based on its sales, but spiritual things are best kept sacred and shared only when the spirit prompts. I have had many such experiences while serving in the Temple. I don't share them with others. Strengthening ones testimony of the Saviour comes through prayer and scripture study and not by reading a sensational book passed on by a RS President or Ward book group, or any other "member in high standing." Thanks Kelly
Sue AnnJanuary 20, 2014
Thank you for your insight. I prefer to be taught by the scriptures and those individuals who hold the Priesthood Keys in my behalf. I don't know what Spencer's motive may be but I can trust the motive of my Heavenly Father.
Kay JonesJanuary 20, 2014
Reading all of these comments comforts me in my own feelings. I have read this several times now and feel spiritually edified and peaceful in my own life. I am a life time member, a seasoned seminary teacher, and well educated scholar. I feel for those who do not look at this for what it is, a voice of warning to be able to spiritually stand on your own two feet and not be led by whims of the world. The author seems very well motivated and very undeserving of comments displayed.
Greg WrightJanuary 20, 2014
I find it interesting that so many people are defensive of the stewardship of the brethren when it comes to guiding us through the deceptions of the world and yet the brethren have not warned us about the deceptions of Visions of Glory. They are well informed. It is inconceivable that they are unaware of it. If it is that big of a problem, why haven't the brethren addressed it? And the argument that Spencer had no right or authority to share his experience does not invalidate the possibility that he had an experience. Besides he said he shared it with John Pontius when the Lord gave him permission to do so. How do we know that the Lord did not give him permission? The fact that Spencer isn't an Apostle doesn't mean he could not have been given a message and been told to publish a book about it. Not all inspiration comes through Apostles. Was Samuel the Lamanite an Apostle? Kelly Ogden is right that our foundation for doctrines should be the scriptures. But "Visions" didn't declare that the things taught to him were doctrines that any of us should be obligated to. He just told us what he experienced. We are free to reject any of it. The scriptures don't contain all truths. In fact they tell us that there are many eternal truths beyond our ability to understand at this time. So we should not be surprised that people who visit the spirit world get educations above and beyond what this mortal world can offer. The brethren are free to correct any false ideas that come from such books and they occasionally do when false beliefs take us in the wrong direction. But what direction does "Visions" direct us to do? I got the impression that the most important thing we could do is be faithful and learn to listen to the Spirit, something the brethren are constantly telling us. I also got the impression that storing more food might be a good idea, also something the brethren have been telling us for decades. So where is the harm in preparing for disaster and being more sensitive to the Spirit?
Lorena HolmsteadJanuary 20, 2014
Bro. Ogden, I have loved your writings ever since my husband and I were at the Jerusalem Center, and we studied from your textbook. I am saddened, therefore, to see you publish this article raising concerns about Visions of Glory because I love this book, and have found it to be an extraordinary gift from Heavenly Father. I have applied Moroni
DanJanuary 20, 2014
For quite a while it seemed this was not available through Deseret Book. To see that they have now chosen to participate in dispensing it to the public sends a mixed signal. I hope they're listening. --- Meanwhile, the first red flag to me was the author's mentioning of an unnamed apostle confidante who allegedly sanctioned the visions. Such cleverly unverifiable "title dropping" clearly has only one purpose -- winning trust from the earliest pages. Also, the pseudonym for Spencer could have just as easily been "Bob" but why not kill two birds with one stone? Hey, let's pick a beloved and trusted name in LDS memory! Let's see ... Heber, Wilford, Lorenzo? Not recent enough. Ezra? Too obvious. Hmmm....
J.D.January 20, 2014
"Hallucinations" seem to be appropriate in describing what "Spencer" experienced. It's medically known that a hallucination can be more real to an individual than is reality. They are often based on past thought patterns. For example, "Spencer" and others are no doubt aware there eventually will be "The Big One" (earthquake) along the west coast. It's my educated guess the man hallucinated the probability into a 'visionary' event. The same can be said for other 'visionary' events he reports. While serving an L.D.S. mission, I had a personal, dramatic, spiritual experience from the other side. It was intended for me, not for others, and I've not shared it with others. Likewise I had a near death experience I've not shared, as the experience was a teaching tool for me, alone. Sharing personal revelations is neither wise, nor appropriate. Having these personal experiences come in handy when a bit of doubt enters into one's life.. So it has been with me. I cannot deny what happened to me, and because I can't, I cannot refute the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ, like some of my ex-L.D.S. associate do.
RosieJanuary 20, 2014
Thanks Brother Ogden! I really liked the book Visions of Glory because I'm always interested in hearing about people's near death experiences. But I feel this was a personal vision for Spencer, and not for everyone. After all, if I really thought my home was going to be swallowed up by an earthquake in a few years, why prepare for retirement? I'm reminded of aquaintences who were convinced that 2000 was going to be the end of the world and literally gave up their home, careers and moved to the country. Nothing substitutes for personal prayer and a relationship with the Spirit.
JNRJanuary 20, 2014
FairMormon has similar concerns, https://www.fairmormon.org/perspectives/publications/spencers-visions-of-glory
Renaissance NerdJanuary 20, 2014
I had never heard of this book before I read this article, but now I feel quite curious to read it. However I'm not afraid of being overly influenced by it. I've read everything from the Quran to the Urantia Book, though I suppose something that is close, but not quite close enough could be more insidious. Still, an excellent review, with (to my mind) entirely appropriate warnings. I have to be careful about preaching Adam Smith and Frances Hutcheson, because even if their works contain a lot of truth, they're not true in the same sense as the scriptures.
DR ChaffinJanuary 20, 2014
One has to remember even normal dreams, or REM sleep, produces visions that are open to interpretation.( I have had some doozies) I do not know the dream state of the brain in near death mode, but I feel sure that it too is open for interpretation as well. Our General Authorities, our Stake Leaders, and our Scriptures, tell us to live the gospel principles, follow the prophets, and all will be well with us. We know there are messy times ahead, but hold to the iron rod and fear not. I read the book and find it interesting, but not infinite. The author's INTERPERTATION of a sophisticated dream. He even says so in the introduction.
BonniwJanuary 20, 2014
I appreciated Brother Ogden's review. I believe it a work of fiction, with scriptures thrown in to confuse the reader. I believe it was written by a wolf in sheep's clothing. I didn't feel the spirit at any time while reading it, and feel it could damage a new or beginners testimony. We are not to be lead astray by "every wind of doctrine." I can find the truth in the scriptures, through prayer and believing in the prophet, who is not allowed to lead us astray. If he were to do so, his life would be taken. Thank you, Brother Ogden
Monica FieldingJanuary 20, 2014
I loved the book. "Spencer" simply related his experiences. They are not a substitute in anyway for studying the scriptures or the words of the prophets. When I read the book, I felt the same way as when I converse with close friends in my home about dreams and visions they have shared with me. Take what the Spirit tells you is good, and don't worry about the rest. If the Spirit tells you not to read it, don't read it. Books like this should never replace gospel study, and the author did not intend for it to do so. There are always people who read too much into a book, especially members who don't study the doctrine and want easy answers. . . it doesn't mean the book is bad. The book is simply one man's experience, no more, no less, and I am grateful he was willing to endure the harsh criticism he knew he would receive. I agree with Brother Erickson and I thank him for his comments. --Sis. Fielding
Jim BarrusJanuary 20, 2014
Thank you for your review. There are many many books written by leaders of the Church about the teachings of the leaders of the church and the scriptures. If members want to know what is to come there are plenty of sources. the Scriptures are the main books.
Terri PontiusJanuary 20, 2014
My name is Terri Pontius, and I am the wife of the late John Pontius. I was present during the many interviews with
JohnJanuary 20, 2014
Brother Kelly- Thank you for the most excellent counsel. If other readers are interested, may I suggest an alternate book, written by your BYU colleague, Brent L. Top, "Glimpses Beyond Death's Door".
bmsJanuary 20, 2014
I found both the book and this article to be insightful. And inciteful. The book should not be regarded as a guide. Nor should blog posts which are angry about it.
Deanne GillieJanuary 20, 2014
A well written article. I read the book and had many doubts about some of the doctrine in the book. I feel so relieved that my feelings are founded by this article. Thank you so much Bro. Ogden for your insights and documentations.
MicheleJanuary 20, 2014
Thanks, Brother Ogden. This book was brought to my attention by a friend who expressed great excitement about the content. I couldn't help feel a bit uneasy, that it was one of the things we have been cautioned about. I have been particularly concerned because it dealt with some near-death type experiences. My mother is a big fan of the Beyond the Veil series, especially since her own parents have passed away and she is getting quite a bit older herself. The experiences in these books are obviously personal to the person experiencing them and have given others a great deal of comfort when looking at the life beyond. They do not purport to tell the Church or the world how to behave or the sequence of events in the last days. I had already determined not to purchase this book and not to tell my mother about it. I am glad I made this decision. It just seemed more than a little self-serving on the part of Brother Pontius to put it out there without the proper authority. Thanks again for confirming my feelings.
Phil HarrisonJanuary 20, 2014
Thank you, Brother Ogden, for this insightful and extensive analysis of this book. I read it at the request of someone else, and had many of the same concerns you have expressed. Thank you for making these concerns available to a wider audience through Meridian.
LaRaeJanuary 20, 2014
VERY WELL WRITTEN ARTICLE< BROTHER OGDEN. I have read the book and found it VERY DISTURBING for many reasons. (Many Brother Ogden has addressed in this article.) My question is, IF "Spencer's" visions etc. are true why is he afraid to reveal who he is--what is he afraid of?? The fact that so many readers are accepting it as GOSPEL--and following its' council is disturbing. Have we not been warned in the scriptures--that "Even the Very Elect will be deceived??? It brings to mind a lady, author (who I will not name) who wrote 2 books, a few years ago, about her experiences of Life After Death--etc.--I read them, thought them to be VERY interesting and my heart went out to her, until she appeared on a "Talk Show" and openly admitted that she had Fabricated much of her experiences--TO SELL BOOKS--I cannot help but wonder if this "Visions of Glory" is not for the same reason??? It is like someone writing a book on "How to win at gambling or the lottery etc.--do they think we, the public are idiots??--they are making money on the books sold--that is a given--IF THEY KNEW HOW TO WIN WHY WOULD THEY BE SELLING BOOKS??? I feel that this "Spencer" should have to reveal who he is and not hide behind some unknown name. SAD, but I personally believe it was all written for Material gain--I did not, once, have a good feeling when reading the book and felt I should put it down, many times, but I did finish it so as not to base my feelings from just a few pages read. Thank you, again Brother Ogden for this article--I do hope MANY people read this.
ConnieJanuary 20, 2014
I was very glad to read this review. I wasn't sure what to think about the book when I was done. There are parts that I believe to be accurate, but others I don't. I do think if he had these visions, it should have been kept private but it is an incredible load. I also did not like the part where he described walking through a person and understanding all about the person's feelings, sins, etc. I hope no one, even in eternity, can be that transparent. Many parts disturbed me, but others comforted. My husband's response was that he did not feel the Spirit as he read the book. In retrospect, I would not choose to read it.
ClarisseJanuary 20, 2014
Thank you so much, Bro. Ogden! The thoughtful and vigourous research that went into this article provided much clarity and sound doctrinal support for the concerns that I experienced while reading the book. There were so many red flags that went up because of the inconsistencies in doctrine that it became difficult for me to believe any of the story was actually true. I have often wondered why it is still on the non-fiction shelves at Deseret Bookstores without a disclaimer because it can cause confusion and misunderstanding to those less inclined to search out correct principles. The Lord has always followed a pattern when it comes to His Church and people by revealing His word through ordained prophets and seers. When we prayerfully consider these words and humbly seek the Spirit, He will guide us by the Holy Ghost to receive personal revelation for ourselves and our own families as to what to do and how to live in accordance to His will. But those revelations are for us as individuals, and, as instructed so wonderfully in the article, not for the Church as a whole. Thanks again for reminding us where to turn to gain better understanding and correct verification of doctrine; the scriptures, teachings of the prophets and the witness of the Holy Ghost.
LeeJanuary 20, 2014
Personally I loved the book and I am glad that Spencer was told by the Spirit to share it after all these years. It made me want to be a better person. I felt the spirit and I think it did not contradict the scriptures or the prophets. "By the fruit you shall know". It was good and delicious to me. Timing is everything.
JulieJanuary 20, 2014
Thanks for this reasonable and well-documented commentary. I have read the book and wondered what leaders of the church have to day about it. I think there are some very thought-provoking ideas in it, but like you, I have been troubled by some who seem to take it as church doctrine.
Marie BarnhurstJanuary 20, 2014
Thank you, Brother Ogden. Too many people are attracted to such sensational writing when they would be much better served to read the scriptures, say their prayers, and read the words of the living prophet!
SusieJanuary 20, 2014
Thank you Bro. Ogden for setting us straight and reminding us of some very important aspects of God's teachings. I believe as you do that the scriptures are where we can draw closer to our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ, not this type of book.
Stephen FennJanuary 20, 2014
Brother Ogden, I hope many who are enamoured with this book will read your article. It seems to me that a very subtle danger of reading this type of book is an eroding of our faith and trust in living prophets and apostles who are the very ones charged with the responsibility of officially interpreting the signs of the times. If one accepts these sensationalized writings as authoritative he must also concede that modern seers are somehow lacking in their vision of future events. Such a mindset is fraught with danger.
Alicia TaylorJanuary 20, 2014
I agree 100% with brother Ogden. Our personal revelations that come as we read the scriptures and pray should be kept to ourselves. The Lord will reveal to His people thru His servants the Prophets, He has said so and I know He will. Thank you for your comments about the book.
Jerald L. Erickson January 20, 2014
Hello Dr. Ogden.. I have read the Visions of Glory book this past summer, and was so impressed that I bought copies for all of my brothers for Christmas, and have a copy that I am passing around to my adult children to read. Now, I just finished reading your column and concerns which are basically that he should have kept it to himself. In that regard, I would like to mention why I found the book valuable. 1) Neither I, nor any of the people I have discussed it with, are taking it as prophecy. We all understand that prophecy comes from the priesthoold leaders of the church. I see this book as a means to organize alot of future events into a model, or comprehendable outline of how things might roll out. This, in my mind, makes the future much less scary,and much more positive as something that we can prepare for, live through, and accomplish what we each need to be doing. 2) This book provided the best explanantion that I have ever read of how the righteous spirits around us assist us and comfort us, and how the evil spirits around us tempt us and try to take advantage of our weaknesses. Thus, forewarned is fore armed. I find this explanation both very modivational on how to avoid evil as well as comforting in understanding how the righteous around us will bouy us up and protect us when we need it most. 3) The description of what the various groups of the saints are doiing during the tumultuous times described, and how the leaders keep in touch and lead the saints even though war and destruction are all around, was very interesting. Again, it is viewed as a model of how it might be done. 4) The description of how the righteous saints are protected frrom the roving evil bands is interesting and reassuring. 5) The description of how many of world who are are trying to find peace seek out the righteous groups of saints first for peace and comfort, and then to learn about the gospel that brings that peace and oomfort is another good model of how it might be done. 5) The description of how the various bodies of saints and righteous are organized to prepare for the Saviours coming during all this war and destruction makes that assignment conprehendable as how it might be done. 6) When I pray about the impressions left by the book, about how to prepare, that we will be protected if we stay on the right path and do as our priesthood leaders direct us, and that we have a great work to do in helping others prepare for what is coming all seem to be comfirmed by the Spirit. Would the Spirt do that if the information was something that we are not supposed to know or have read? Overall, I very much enjoyed the book, and am grateful for the clarity and reassurance that it provides. These are just my thoughts on the matter. Thank you for your article and your thoughts on the matter. , Bro.Erickson
DebbieJanuary 20, 2014
I absolutely loved your commentary on Visions of Glory. When I was told about some of the fantastic experiences and "doctrine" in this book, I was tempted to buy it. However, I chose not to. It is nice to know that I didn't get caught up in the sensational. Also, I appreciate the caution to keep sacred revelation to oneself or immediate family. We can do damage by sharing too much, not only to our good, but the good of those we are trying to help. Thanks again for your words, Brother Ogden.
Ross-Anne PearsonJanuary 20, 2014
I voiced my concerns some time ago to our local bookstore. They told me it was their best selling book. I think the author was hallucinating when he wrote parts of his account. The book is highly objectionable.
Reed CarrJanuary 20, 2014
D. Kelly Ogden shows the great wisdom he possesses in cautioning us about delving into such sacred matters, as we can not understand fully a vision given to another without the Spirit guiding us as He did to Nephi
Someone in UtahJanuary 20, 2014
I read this book, and became more uneasy with it the further I got into it. It was pretty much about his own "eliteness". That is exactly what Satan tries to do to us - make us feel as if we are special and important. Although Spencer seems to be humble about it all, I think he was deceived. Satan's tactics are very real and can even feel very spiritual. It's hard to discern sometimes - and I speak from my own experience.
Gaynor WellsJanuary 20, 2014
Thank you so much for your opinion and concerns on the book Visions of Glory. I think whenever we read any book that has these kinds of subjects in them, we should ask the Lord for guidance in knowing if it is true or not, I have made it a rule that the only books I can trust are the Book of Mormon, D&C and the Bible if it has been translated correctly. I remember a certain apostle a few years ago writing some very interesting books and people loved him and his writings, they were suppose to be experiences he had. Then suddenly he was excommunicated and not all of his experiences were true. So I think sometimes people get caught up in wanting to believe what is written if it sounds good and not always the truth. We have been warned about these things and I must say after reading Visions of Glory, my first question was, why am I questioning this book? read it as a good novel.
duane lawsJanuary 20, 2014
Thanks to brother Ogden for being clear and specific in his analysis of the content of this book. Have the authors responded to his critique??
TahneJanuary 20, 2014
Excellent article. Thank you for your well organized insights!
D. Corydon HammondJanuary 20, 2014
I applaud this review. On the FAIR website there is an even more cautious and critical review of the work of this author: https://www.fairmormon.org/perspectives/publications/spencers-visions-of-glory. Beware.
Jim KinseyJanuary 20, 2014
I have read the book and I too, have concerns. This is not what the scriptures tell us will happen. The UN may be evil, but I think its intent is basically good. These are the bad guys in the book. The whole thing sounds like something Orson Scott Card would write in conjunction with H. G. Wells or George Orwell. I do not recommend it and I certainly think that time would be better spent studying the scriptures and the teachings of the prophets than reading Mormon science fiction.
KathleenJanuary 20, 2014
I read this book. Toward the beginning "Spencer" talks of disembodied spirits, who were once flesh, how their former addictions remained with them and they target mortal family members. I was molested by my father, who has passed on. I have sons who struggle with pornography addictions, as did my father. This part of the book deeply disturbed me as all I could picture is my father spurring my son's on. I have wondered, what of spirit prison, what hope of breaking the chains of the past? "Spencer" made it seem as if there is little hope to change a family from a cycle of addiction and abuse. What of repentance, I love my father and hope he will repent of what he did. I have shed many tears since reading this account in the book and am seeking answers.
gripJanuary 20, 2014
My wife and I both read the book. We both came away withe a very heavy uneasy feeling. I would not recommend that anyone read the book. I found no peace in reading it.
Jackie FarnsworthJanuary 20, 2014
I have read this book, and like a lot of others found the first part interesting and thought-provoking. However the second part becomes so much like a fiction novel (Pontius is a novelist) that I began to feel negative, warning feelings and threw the book away before finishing it. A lot there bothered me. This experience is matched by many in my family. I would not recommend it for reading.
GrammaJanuary 20, 2014
i have heard a few of my acquaintances talk about this book and i was pleased with the comments made by Brother Ogden.
Maureen OlsonJanuary 20, 2014
Dear Brother Ogden, I approach the writing of these comments the same way I approach any of my communications on any gospel topic: with the deepest feeling of love for my Father in Heaven, my Savior, and my fellow human beings. And with the greatest respect for each person that I know how to demonstrate. Before I read a book on any gospel topic, I ask my Father in Heaven in prayer to help me discern by His Spirit, if this book is not only inspired of Him and His work, but also if there is something in it meant for me, and if He will please help me find that portion by His Spirit. I already accept the words of modern and ancient prophets, authorized and accepted by current Church leaders. Why? Because I have had a testimony of the truthfulness of the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ all my life. Of course, I still read these writings prayerfully and by the Spirit. However, when evaluating a source not written by authorized and accepted prophets and apostles both ancient and modern, I have found my standard of earnest, honest personal inquiry through prayer to be essential in having the Spirit direct me to some sources and away from others. I also find that prayerful reading of a book or article is essential to having the Spirit with me as I read, so that I will, indeed, glean from the work what the Lord intends me to understand. These gems of understanding are always in harmony with revealed truths of the gospel taught in authorized scripture both ancient and modern. I recommend my method of acquiring discernment and understanding to anyone, knowing that prophets both ancient and modern have taught it to us. Reading Visions of Glory has been one of many, many testimony affirming and building works I have read in my life. I have not found the errors you have found in the work, but I was not reading the book to find things that could possibly be misconstrued and used toward evil. In fact, I feel you are misreading passages in the book and ignoring others that could answer some of your questions. I do not think the process of inquiry a bad one. I do believe there is only one way to read a book on any gospel topic, and that is prayerfully and with the Spirit of the Lord. Only this way can each individual glean what The Spirit means for them to glean from a work. If the Spirit leads an individual away from a work, then it is not meant for that person. As far as I know, to date, no person in a position of authority in the Church has condemned Visions of Glory. I also know Deseret Book is now carrying the sequel to Visions of Glory (called Journey to the Veil)as a special order. I personally consider this sequel to be, (besides authorized scripture both ancient and modern which are the most spiritually empowering works ever written and the foundation of our faith), the most spiritually empowering book I have ever read, I have been reading Deseret Book publications literally all my life, and love them. I feel any person with a solid understanding of basic gospel principles can read Visions of Glory and glean from it by the Spirit that which is intended to strengthen their testimonies and faith in our Savior Jesus Christ. I fully respect the decision of anyone who feels led by the Spirit away from it to not read it. In fact, I would insist that they not read it! I do feel, as "Spencer" shares in his book (Visions of Glory), that he was directed by the Spirit of God to make parts of his visions available to readers in general now, today. I agree that it is not for all readers, and I agree that some will use it for evil, and that others who have been drawn to it out of curiosity rather than the Spirit will misread it and that it will be a negative influence in their lives. Let us always read and live by the Spirit! We do need it as our constant companion. Thank you, Brother Ogden, I have loved and continue to appreciate so many of your writings! With faith and love, Maureen Olson
Annette DeanJanuary 20, 2014
I knew when I saw this article it would try and deter people from reading the book. If people are uplifted by it why is that a problem? I'm disappointed in this article.
Trish MJanuary 20, 2014
Doesn't publishing matters of spiritual communication for the purpose of gaining money constitute priestcraft? I haven't heard of this book, but I greatly appreciate the explanation here. I've always been suspicious of such revelations and dreams which, I imagine, have been appended and embellished over time.
KarenJanuary 20, 2014
Lehi's family and Jerusalem were upset by his visions and teachings, but he was still instructed to share them. My husband had prophetic dreams--they upset me not because I did not believe them, but because of the way he shared them or the significance of the content.
CharlotteJanuary 20, 2014
Thank you so much for this commentary. This book has been a troubling concern of mine since I first read it. With all the stir about it, I am grateful to learn that my concerns have complete validation in the scriptures and the words of the living prophets.
Bruce P. OrnsteadJanuary 20, 2014
Spencer says his office was one door away from the Saviors. in other words, he was given more prominance than all the apostles and prophets of this last 200 years without he holding any special office at all. bottom line, the book is a fraud.
LexaGraemeJanuary 20, 2014
Thank you for the review. I have not heard of this book, and the sensation around it seems similar to that of an (at least then) LDS woman who had her own near-death experiences--some of which also contradicted doctrine--and shared them in her own book about 20 years ago. To share something that should not have been shared, and then sharing it in a way that you will earn money from it--falls under the category of "priestcraft." I want no part of such things.
JanJanuary 20, 2014
thank you so much for your article. I too have felt as you have about this book. I have friends to have taken this book almost as scripture and it has frightened me. we need to stick to what the prophets have told us and to read and study they scripture to find answers
Janice HurstJanuary 20, 2014
I read the book about a year ago. It had no profound effect on me. I did suggest to a couple of LDS friends that they should read it and tell me what they thought about it. I thought it was one man's fiction. I though it interesting, but found nothing that gave me an AHA moment. I have read other books by LDS and other Christians authors that touched me much move than this book. It read too much as fiction would. Not believable to me.
vickieJanuary 20, 2014
I had no idea this kind of book was out..it must be a utah thing or western part of the united states. many people write what they see and their visions...but...as doctrine I dont consider it that unless it comes from the prophet or is cleared through the prophet. I have had such revealings from the HOly Ghost and it became part of my testimony but it wasnt something I came up with..it was in support of a proclamation by one of our prophets. it was indeed amazing and I was so happy to hear a prophet proclaim something so wonderful. I didnt think my knowledge of such just before that proclamation should be mentioned at all to anyone..until after I heard the prophet proclaim this wonderful thing and thus it proved that the Spirit was manifesting this miracle to everyone...showing it was a truth...in this case I have to wonder why a man waited 40yrs and then allowed someone else to interpret the book for him and write it...IM not really sure about this esp if the prophet hasnt sustained it...these are just my feelings...
Loma SilsburyJanuary 20, 2014
A very dear friend went to the effort and personal expense sending me a copy of this document all the way to Australia asking, in turn, for my honest opinion given he had felt very excited and inspired by its pages. I found the literary style stilted and virtually unreadable and content to not only contradictory, but in direct conflict with the admonitions of His appointed Servants that we must keep such experiences sacred and private. How do you tell someone you think so highly of that you have never read such a load of unmitigated twaddle ? This is feed back only - I am still trying to solve my dilemma ! Respectfully, Sister Loma Silsbury
Dale January 20, 2014
I have not read the book in question, but for the same reasons you have outlined I find it incredibly troubling, to the point that I would be surprised if he Church did not take some kind of action against the person that revealed what was written in the book.
Susan C.January 20, 2014
Even the revelations in our own patriarchal blessings are to be kept sacred, and few circumstances allow for the suggestion of sharing with others. Whether "Spencer" truly had these experiences, I cannot say; however, I, too, wonder why he feels the need to go public. He is not a prophet of the Lord, whose writings are to be taken as doctrine of the Church. Also, I wonder about the possibility of the story being embellished after 40 years of silence...like the big fish that got away?
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