God does nothing save it be plain unto the children of men. Joseph Smith taught the importance of plain and precious truths. It is my belief that the church has nothing to fear from these leaks.
I think the Church should find out who the "leakers" are. They have no right to disclose things that are not to be public. When the Twelve have made a decision after significant discussion and prayer about an issue, then they will let us know.
My question is, are those providing the leaked information being paid? If so, then Mormonleaks is supporting the unethical actions. Just my thought.
Great article thanks you!
I have personally interacted with RYAN McKnight. Ryan is a sociopathic cyber bully. Some fellow admins and I were tipped off to some of his cyber bullying tactics and we got a link go his reddit anti-mormon didcussion groups where we witnessed how strong of a hold Satan has on Ryan and his supporters. For him to claim he's just caring about transparency is nothing but a textbook case study on gas-lighting. If your not aware of this disturbing psychological manipulation, you need to be aware of it because it is a tool of the adversary and is very much in use today. Ryan very much wants to see the church and anyone who faithfully belongs to it burn.
John Dehlins involved? What a shock. I watched some of the original videos of the brethren in meetings they leaked. I loved seeing the brethren in their humble conversations among themselves, their intelligent questions and their obvious concern for all of God's children. John Dehlin and his kind I consider to be traitors. Anyone who is a traitor to their former beliefs and oaths is not someone I trust or respect. I can only imagine what they might have done among the traitorous mob that killed the prophet. Their only concern is their own selfish interests and furthering the devils opposition to the true gospel. Not someone I'd want to trade places with at judgment day. The Savior said, "But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me (members of the church) it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea." I think the savior views apostates and those they try to bring with them as the worst kind and their fate is not one that will be pretty.
"spiritual maggots" Glen Not very nice.
In my opinion, once a contribution is made to a person or organization then the money, or whatever of value that has been given is theirs. If I get into my pocket and give anything to the person holding up a sign I don't care what they use the money for. I don't even care if their sign is truthful. Once the money leaves my hand, it is theirs. That said, if you don't like how your tithing money is used, DON'T GIVE IT.
Now on the speculation of the bubbles in the presentation, it is just that....speculation. Nobody knows how the presentation was used, but anyone who has looked at the YouTube video knows that all of the talking heads have done nothing but speculated about each bubble.
Private is not the same as secret. I have breasts...I keep them private but its no secret that I have them. As a member, I would like to think that if, by chance, mine or anyone else's specific, personal information were being discussed, that those communications are kept private. The efforts by this Leaks organization to reveal something they could incite a sense of hurt over is sad. It produces the image in my mind of an angry kid trying to wrest an arrow from someone else's quiver and then shoot themselves with that person's bow in order to feel victimized.
There are those who have suggested that if the Church has "nothing to hide", then they should not worry when things are leaked. That is not the issue here. The issue is that things that are meant to be confidential are being leaked with an intent to cause harm to the Church and its leaders, to lead away souls from the truthfulness of the Gospel, and to disrupt the good works the Church does.
I would start with the enmity of the LGBT to our church. Their practices have been condemned by God since the beginning. It was exemplified by the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah by God. At the time the 10 lost tribes were taken the basic difference between them and Judah was the Judah had cast out its Sodomites.
Getting rid of evil is a good thing. Standing up to your detractors is also a good thing. To those who steal copyrighted material sue them or prosecute them, if their theft is already out there, there is no reason to fear its exposure. For some reason we have become defensive about such conduct by our enemies. The old saying that the best defense is a good offense should still apply.
Don't let them get away with it.
I agree with Rob and Ben. If can't be transparent, can we truly call ourselves authentic?
Let those saying they want more transparency make public their names and addresses and phone numbers and bank account numbers and SSN's.
Maurine, I believe you missed the point of the question the Pharisees asked Jesus. At that time, if he had said stone her, it would have violated Roman law. And he said not to stone her, it would violate Jewish law. I find no evidence that the Christ ever preached compassion for people that were actively engaged in sin. He said go and sin no more. He curiously never said she was forgiven.
Thank you Maurine Proctor! However intriguing and exciting the world of leaks may seem to the leakers and theose who publish them, they are destined to find that they have been on a fools errand, and a dead end for a destination. The religious doctrine of the church contains no dark secrets to find, no terrible conspiracies or embarrassing corruption. Even if corruption were to found with some leaders, it would not affect the faith of those of us who's beliefs are founded in spiritual conviction.
And yes, we DO know where our tithes and offerings go...we've been told thousands of times. It doesn't matter if we know down to the penny who or what it is spent for. If your faith is in the Gospel, then you may have faith in the way your donations are spent.
The real damage here is to souls; sad day for the men here who have dedicated themselves to fighting against the Church of Jesus Christ! Short of sincere repentence, their fate is not a reward of satisfaction, but of endless torment Their unseen supporter is the power of darkness, and their end is to be in his power.
If you have nothing to hide from your people, what is the big deal? Seriously people.
“If we have the truth, it cannot be harmed by investigation. If we have not the truth, it ought to be harmed.”
J. Reuben Clark, D. Michael Quinn: The Church Years. Provo, Utah: Brigham Young University Press, 1983, p. 24
"Transparency is a dangerous throne at which to worship"
The author raises a lot of good points that I think are cutting edge for modern society. For example, yes, it is difficult to operate with the fear that every internal communication needs to be ready for public consumption.
However, I take strong exception to the idea that the Church is sufficiently transparent. Think of the level of transparency a charity that accepts donations from the general public must adhere to. Then compare that standard to the level the Church chooses.
The difference is a chasm. And the Church is in the wrong side of it. Does that mean Church funds are being misappropriated, abused, or wasted? No. But without disclosure, it is hard not to wonder why the membership can't see how their tithes are spent.
Compare the sacrifice of a tithe payer to a person who makes a $25 donation to The Red Cross and the disclosure they receive in return.
"Good leaks: A good leak is the disclosure of information that expands public understanding of an issue of public interest - without harming anyone. A leak also can be good if it illuminates understanding of an important issue even if it harms someone, as long as the public interest at stake is significant-lives and health are at risk; a crime, such as fraud is being committed; public monies are being misspent.
Bad leaks: A bad leak is one that does harm and does not aid public understanding of an important public issue. A bad leak is also one that does too much harm as it tries to inform the public regarding an important issue. A leak may be bad if it violates an important commitment or trust one has as a board member, an employee, or even as a friend."
Mormon leaks is silly and wrong headed. But whistle blowers play an important role in a democracy. Ms Proctor threw the baby out with the bath water when she tarred all "leakers" as bad. If an employer is doing something illegal and wrong and the employee cannot get redress, blowing the whistle is significant, righteous and important. Mormon leaks aren't whistle blowers but are ace grinders apparently. But don't reject whistleblowers out of hand. I am sorry to see so many comments that seem to think we should ignore problems in high places. If your bishop has an affair with the RS president who is not his wife, of course, those privy to it must speak up.
Regardless of all of the details, I'd argue that the best defense against so-called "leaks" is simply this: make sure all of the church's actions are above reproach. It's that simple. What needs to be hidden about how the church is run? Nothing, as far as I know. I'm not referring things that should be kept private, such as one's personal history, or similar - I'm merely referring to the policies and practices of the church as it pertains to how it's run. Again, let people "leak" things - just make sure there's nothing going on that would embarrass the church. Or, in the worst case, let them leak something embarrassing and simply confess it. I don't know, I still think honesty is always the best policy, and the church saying "we don't know anything about that document" and yet asking for them to take it off of the internet just looks bad.
I hope John Dehlin and his fellow detractors realize that these Apostles are the same mortals God used to grow the wealth of the Church they are now seeking to destroy! Someday, they will get their day of hearing before the judgement seat of the Master of these Apostles
Maurine: Well written article, thank you.
Same say the internet is the information super highway. When in reality it is often the misinformation cow path.
This article provides us with an opportunity for self-reflection. It would behoove us all to notice how often the underlying motive and ultimate self-justification for our own immediate unethical behavior is really a weak defense of our deeper sinful nature. This is a challenge we all share. Several of the principals named in this article, for example, have made their reputation attacking and demeaning Church leaders because of their anger over LGBT and marriage issues. As a sinner who often falls short of the mark I too can find it easier to shift my focus away from my own particular “pet weakness" and aim my frustration at those standards or standard bearers who remind me of my accountabilities. Using all my worldly reason I can easily surmise that if I could get rid of the witness of truth causing me such distress I would be at peace. Sadly, if we begin by seeking an unrighteous end we can pretty much justify any unholy measure to get there along the way.
A sad day indeed when the people who work with the brethren act like Judas and sell, give information which does not belong to them to the enemies of the church. Why would anyone ever want to do that to these brethren who have given their lives to be in the service of our Heavenly Father and to us as Latter-day Saints.
When I was a young boy growing up in my father's home, my father made a financial transaction with another person and it was sealed by a handshake. Time and space does not permit me to go into all the details however I said to my father that has to be the dumbest mistake you have ever made. That was 65 years ago and yet to this day I will ever remember my father's answer: "If his personal integrity is not worth what he owes me then he has been the greater loser, not me. At least I can sleep nights". When we lose our own personal integrity we have lost everything of value. I would not want to be in the shoes of those who are part of this fraud and cause these leaks. Great article.
This is His Church!
"Behold, this is my doctrine— whosoever repenteth and cometh unto me, the same is my church. Whosoever declareth more or less than this, the same is not of me, but is against me; therefore he is not of my church." (D&C 10:67-68)
I, too, was struck with the excellent writing.
There is indeed a parallel between what the leakers and their minions are trying to do to the Church and the treatment the pharisees and scribes used against the Lord and Savior of this World. The word "transparency" as used by these anti-Mormon purveyors is simply a cover for those like Lucifer who fight against the truth. The wise are not fooled by their efforts.
People with discernment quickly recognize that stable individuals do not spend huge amounts of time and energy attempting to destroy the church. Those who engage in a bitter obsession to harm the church reveal themselves. Sooner or later, their destiny will be in the bottom of the pit that they have dug. Their pretense of innocence does not fool anyone. Hopefully, they will wake up and come to the realization that they are on the errand of Satan. Like Saul and Alma, who also sought to destroy the church, the Lord will welcome them with open arms, on the conditions of repentance.
Recently I became curious about the history of transparency, not because of Mormon Leaks or any other Leaks site - but because of one former employees emphasis on it for our (government) work space. What I learned was transparency of itself is not necessarily always good. Authenticity (when you do tell something, tell it like it really is) is always good. Unfortunately, many demand transparency when really what they want is authenticity - but they confuse the two.
Good thought provoking article. Its amazing how much of our news begins with the statement of "The person who spoke did so on the condition of anonymity because they weren't authorized to speak on the case". In other words, it was a leak. Its has become so common we as a culture are used to it. In past years, respectable journalists wouldn't print such stuff if it was a leak.
David, sadly, you missed the point. Are you married? If so, do you share every part of your marriage, every conversation, with everyone outside of your marriage? I would hope not. If you did you wouldn't be in a healthy, happy marriage for long. It's the exact same concept.
What it boils down to in regards to the leadership of the Church is this: either you trust that the First Presidency and Twelve are being led by God and doing His will, or you don't. No "leaks" are necessary. Or helpful. Or to use your word, "beneficial".
If you don't have that knowledge and faith, nothing that's ever "leaked" can be beneficial to you. I'd check my level of commitment to the Gospel if I were you. You seem to be at the top of a slippery slope, looking for an excuse to leave. (Just an observation from the outside based on one comment, so I truly hope I'm wrong, Brother.) But it's never a bad idea for any of us to evaluate where we stand on the issue of our faith, so I'll let the suggestion stand.
Great article and absolutely on point. I agree with almost all of the comments previously written. The leaders of the LDS Church are not "hiding" anything. There's nothing explosive or revealing in any of this. So bizarre that people are trading their morals and ethics for absolutely nothing.
I have noticed that Satan is incredibly active in his efforts to destroy the Savior's church. I often think when I read articles like this if this type of behavior was perhaps a method Satan used in the war in Heaven to destroy the testimony of those who followed him. I am grateful for your article. This effort by McKnight actually increases my testimony that this is the Savior's church else why would Satan try so hard to destroy it. Also, I am actually grateful to hear that the apostles are so in tune with the world. They are not some in the dark leaders that have no idea why there are problems with people who leave the church. I am grateful for their efforts to solve these problems. I am grateful that they care enough about the disaffected to want to find ways to bring them back, or stop the falling away in the first place. This is where I would expect to find the Savior's apostles, striving to bring the sheep back to the Savior's fold.
There are some self evident truths and one is that a person who claims his purpose is transparency, i.e. “more honesty” while promoting dishonesty it is a hypocrite. Deluding themselves by pretending transparency (being more honest) and professing no culpablility while they employ and encourage deceit.
“I think these videos show how the brethren are even more conservative and more out-of-touch than we thought—which is saying a lot.”
Out of touch with what? With current political thought? With current media propaganda? With current Academia?
Perhaps. . . just perhaps everybody, except the brethren, are out of touch with the spiritual goals of a gospel more concerned with eternal well being than coddling mortal passions.
Well written, although a sad commentary on our day. It brings to my mind the statement that "in the last days the very elect will be deceived." I agree with Glen Danielsen that this article can be used as a tremendous teaching tool, especially for young minds that are trying to find their way through all of the information that is published. It does help us all to gain a true and useful prospective. To Maurine, I would say, keep writing and informing us. THANK YOU!
There are benefits that Transparency brings to everyone. I'm thankful for things like Wikileaks, or Mormonleaks.
We all benefit from public scrutiny & transparency. Although several the arguments in this article are actually true. Let's not forget about the benefits transparency also bring.
We do live in an era of where people makes it a purpose to destroy others, instead of uplifting others. Which forces us to be divided instead of building a camaraderie.
Well written and very true. Thank you for your insights.
Yes I had heard the broadcast and found it interesting and disturbing. My first thought was, who would/could have access to this and if this is an actual church internal document, why would they 'leak 'it out? And, as I listened to the panel, I heard nothing that surprised me. Nothing from what church leadership may or may not ever discuss and nothing from a panel who aren't looking for transparency as much as they are looking to discredit or in some way pull members away from the church.
The most disappointing part of this all, is that I wasted my time listening.
Thanks for both this article and your views.
Well said! The Apostles have lately begun to refer to our time as the hastening and the sifting. I know from my work on the farm as a young man we hastened our sifting and gathering as the end of the harvest approaches. Those are also images the savoir used. We can be at peace knowing the Lord of the harvest knows what he is doing. On another note, I recently found this interesting e-mail conversation between Anti-Mormon author Dan Vogel and apologist Brian Hales. It Vogel's casual admission against interest represents much of what passes for scholarly anti-Mormon work: Dan Vogel to Brian Hales: “You are attempting to take advantage of a silence in the historical record …”
Dan Vogel to Brian Hales: I’m only focusing on the logic and arguments … since … the documentation is scarce for either side, it becomes imperative to get the thinking right. Historians often argue from the known to the undocumented and build probabilistic cases." I recently posed this to Vogel on his FB page and he defends that position not recognizing how damaging it is to his case.
Brilliant, brilliant writing by Maurine Proctor. This article is a keeper. Seminary teachers, institute teachers, bishops, etc, take notice: articles like this are worth converting to PDF and keeping on file in your devices so that you can beam them to those who are affected by the spiritual maggots that pollute our sphere and seek to disengage the elect from their faith. Thank you, Maurine, and thank you Meridian.
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