Every time I read the Book of Mormon and get to these chapters, I always hope that the Nephites will repent and that their civilization and people will be spared—and then it happens every time! They are destroyed.  And then another entire civilization, the Jaredites, are destroyed for the same reasons.  We can’t change their outcomes, but how about ours?  Is there a message in here for us, right now, in our day?


Every time I read the Book of Mormon and get to these chapters, I always hope that the Nephites will repent and that their civilization and people will be spared—and then it happens every time! They are destroyed.  And then another entire civilization, the Jaredites, are destroyed for the same reasons.  We can’t change their outcomes, but how about ours?  Is there a message in here for us, right now, in our day?


Welcome, dear friends, to Meridian Magazine’s Come Follow Me podcast.  We are Scot and Maurine Proctor and we are delighted to be with you again this week. Scot and I have literally been on the road these past 18 days and this podcast was studied and written and our notes were taken down as we were driving home through Missouri, Kansas and Colorado. 

Now, I know you’ve heard me say this before, but I really want you to have Scot’s new 2021 Church History Come Follow Me Calendar in your homes, offices and dens—and to not miss the opportunity to have this on your giving lists this season.  This calendar truly is beautiful AND it contains the Come Follow Me lesson assignments each week, the most significant dates of early Church History, the dates of the revelations from the Doctrine and Covenants and, of course, all the major national holidays. The photographs are stunning.  The quotes are inspiring.  You won’t want to miss having this in your lives for 2021.  You can order yours today, while supplies last, at latterdaysaintmag.com/2021 that’s latterdaysaintmag.com/2021 And thank you for helping the support the mission of Meridian Magazine.


Maurine, as we get to know the boy, the teenager, the man—this amazing prophet and commanding general Mormon, I’m always taken with so many parallels with the prophet Joseph Smith.  They are clearly chosen for their missions in the pre-mortal world.  They are chosen in this life while they are yet very young.  Mormon is “carried” by his father in the land southward when he is eleven years old. (Mormon 1:6) Young Joseph is still lame from his leg operation and is greatly aided in a move to the land southward and west from their New England roots when he is just turning eleven years old.


Mormon gives us this insight about his young spiritual life:

15 And I, being fifteen years of age and being somewhat of a sober mind, therefore I was visited of the Lord, and tasted and knew of the goodness of Jesus. (Mormon 1:15)

As Joseph Smith recounts his First Vision, he begins by saying: “I was at this time in my fifteenth year…I saw a pillar of light exactly over my head, above the brightness of the sun, which descended gradually until if fell upon me…When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air.” (See Joseph Smith History 1:7-17)

So, Mormon and Joseph first see the Lord Jesus Christ in their fifteenth years.


Mormon is given the task by the prophet Ammaron to make a record of all that he has observed when he is about twenty-four years old (see Mormon 1:3).  Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon when he is in his twenty-fourth year. Mormon is clearly able to do his vital work of recording the history of the Nephites by the gift and power of God in the midst of war and destruction.  Joseph Smith is able to translate the ancient record by “the gift and power of God.” (see D&C 135:3)

There are many more parallels between these two great prophets.  I’ve wondered if this is one of the divine signatures upon the Book of Mormon.


It’s interesting to note that in the midst of tremendous turmoil and the devastating onslaught of the Lamanites against the Nephites, Mormon has the charge to take care of not only making an account of all that he has observed, but he is given charge and stewardship over all the sacred records and sacred items of the Nephite nation from a thousand years of history. 

We really have to look at this more closely. We clearly see by 74 B.C. that this cache of records and sacred items is already quite extensive.  We know from Alma, chapter 37 that the repository at this time, 526 years into their history, includes:

  1. The Plates of Brass
  2. The 24 Plates of the record of the Jaredites; and remember: this is not 24 pages, it is 24 large sets of plates documenting the history of the Jaredite nation.
  3. The interpreters or Urim and Thummim
  4. The Liahona
  5. The Small plates of Nephi, and
  6. The Large plates of Nephi—which is an enormous history.


That’s right, Maurine.  Let’s look at it from a vision that Joseph Smith had of the place of records.  We get this account from Brigham Young, but Heber C. Kimball also gives a parallel account of this vision—Joseph and Oliver Cowdery had this same experience:

“Oliver says that when Joseph and Oliver went there, the hill opened, and they walked into a cave, in which there was a large and spacious room. He says he did not think, at the time, whether they had the light of the sun or artificial light; but that it was just as light as day. They laid the plates on a table; it was a large table that stood in the room. Under this table there was a pile of plates as much as two feet high, and there were altogether in this room more plates than probably many wagon loads; they were piled up in the corners and along the walls.

“The first time they went there the sword of Laban hung upon the wall; but when they went again it had been taken down and laid upon the table across the gold plates; it was unsheathed, and on it was written these words: ‘This sword will never be sheathed again until the kingdoms of this world become the kingdom of our God and his Christ.’” (See Journal of Discourses 19:38)


So, we have a view now of what Mormon was dealing with—and his charge.  AND, he has to move all these records right in the midst of this terrible war.  The logistics of this move are not given to us, but we can only imagine that he had many faithful helpers who came with him, including his son, Moroni, and the move of the sacred cache from the Hill Shim to the Hill Cumorah must have been done in the guise of night.  I’m sure the story of that move is what of the fascinating and miraculous stories that will yet come forth as all things that are hidden will be shown to us.  But, all I can say about this is what a stewardship and responsibility Mormon had to move, care for and keep safe all these sacred things. It boggles the mind.

It reminds me of all the destructions we have seen recently by these terrible fires.  We had a fire near our home not that many years ago where we had to evacuate our home—and what is it that you take with you when imminent destruction is upon you:  your sacred records, your family history, your pictures and other sacred things.  This is what Mormon is doing in the midst of imminent destruction, with the records.  He is fleeing with them, and again, the logistics of this move are overwhelming.


Now, Mormon is the 22nd of 23 record keepers of the Book of Mormon, but no one quite had the task he did of not only moving all the records—but of abridging them all to bring us what we now have as the Book of Mormon.

By the way, it’s helpful to remember that Mormon is born in A.D. 310.  This helps you keep track of his age throughout his record.  He is called upon, for example, to take over the armies of the Nephites in A.D. 326 when he is 16 years of age. (See Mormon 2:1-2).

Oh, and I wanted to give another parallel of Mormon and the prophet Joseph:  They are both named after their fathers.  And this is especially significant since Joseph’s name came as the fulfillment of an ancient prophecy from Joseph of Egypt. (See 2 Nephi 3:15 and JST Genesis 50:33)


Now that we have a little more of a vision of this massive cache of records Mormon has charge of, let’s talk about the even more massive job of abridging them into a concise record.  Can you imagine this task?  No less than four times Mormon says that he cannot even give a hundredth part of the account. (see Words of Mormon 1:5; Helaman 3:14; 3 Nephi 5:8 and 3 Nephi 26:6) He clearly is being directed by the Spirit in his sacred task. We especially see this in Words of Mormon, verses 6 and 7:

But behold, I shall take these plates, [he’s talking about the small plates of Nephi here] which contain these prophesyings and revelations, and put them with the remainder of my record, for they are choice unto me; and I know they will be choice unto my brethren.

And I do this for a wise purpose; for thus it whispereth me, according to the workings of the Spirit of the Lord which is in me. And now, I do not know all things; but the Lord knoweth all things which are to come; wherefore, he worketh in me to do according to his will.


I love that last line: “he worketh in me to do according to his will.”  That gives us as much insight into the abridgement as anything.  Mormon is an instrument in the hands of the Lord to abridge this massive cache of records into to concise account that will be hidden up in the earth to come forth in our day as the Book of Mormon.  So, from this you can know that every word, every story, every character, every verse—it’s all been placed in the record by divine direction and the whisperings of the Spirit. If you know this, you will be even more blessed by a perusal of this most amazing and great book.

And I think about that line again, “he worketh in me to do according to his will” and I want that to be the hallmark of my life.  That is what I pray for that I can be an instrument in the hands of the Lord to do his work and his will.


When we served in a bishopric at BYU, our bishop there, our dear friend Paul Horstmeier, gave this consistent plea to those precious students: “Pray that you can be an instrument in the hands of the Lord.” What a great teaching for young people who are finding their way in life, who are trying to find spouses and who are seeking direction in their career choices and what great council for all of us:  Pray that you can be an instrument in the hands of the Lord. And we see this in Mormon’s life.  We see this in Joseph Smith’s life.  We see it in the lives of the prophets and apostles. What could be a greater goal and great mode of operation in our lives than to pray that we could be an instrument in the hands of the Lord?


I agree so much with that.  Back to Mormon, I think of all the things he just broad strokes in his record, like when Amulek is introducing himself to the people of Ammonihah, he talks of his ancestor, Aminadi, “and it was that same Aminadi who interpreted the writing which was upon the wall of the temple, which was written by the finger of God.” (Alma 10:2) He says this to the people so they will know his ancestral lineage and he refers to this Aminadi as if there are many Aminadi’s they might know, but this one is the one who interpreted the writing and refers to that story assuming all his listeners know of this story.  Wow! We don’t know anything about that story!


And at the end of the account of the visitation of Christ to the Nephites, Mormon says:

11 Behold, I was about to write them, all which were engraven upon the plates of Nephi, but the Lord forbade it, saying: I will try the faith of my people.

12 Therefore I, Mormon, do write the things which have been commanded me of the Lord.

See, here is another insight into the abridgement process: Mormon only writes the things which he is commanded to write.

Remember, the ancient Nephites never had the Book of Mormon. No other people in history had this book—it was written for our time, in came forth in our time and it is for us, living now, in these troubled times.

Can you see why this Book of Mormon is so precious to us and so important to incorporate into our lives?


Now, let’s get a look at the Nephite nation as Mormon is a boy in A.D. 320 and 321 as he moves with his father to the land of Zarahemla.  This means Mormon was born in the north and now moves to the south.  He comments:

The whole face of the land had become covered with buildings, and the people were as numerous almost, as it were the sand of the sea.

This means this was a densely populated area.  It’s interesting as we study and journey into the rich archaeological sites of Mesoamerica we realize that only about 5% of these sites have even been touched by modern excavation attempts. There are literally thousands of untouched sites and I can picture this kind of description. And I would guess that these are mainly going to be villages, towns and cities with structures built after the cataclysmic events surrounding the crucifixion of the Savior when there was such massive destruction.


Mormon then makes some markedly spiritual assessments of his people about the year 325:

13 But wickedness did prevail upon the face of the whole land, insomuch that the Lord did take away his beloved disciples, and the work of miracles and of healing did cease because of the iniquity of the people.

14 And there were no gifts from the Lord, and the Holy Ghost did not come upon any, because of their wickedness and unbelief.

Can you imagine what it would be like to not have any spiritual gifts from the Lord?  How would it be to have the Spirit completely withdraw from a people who once knew the Lord so well?  I have a friend who went through some difficulties which led to her excommunication. It took her a year before she was able to get re-baptized and she told me, “Maurine, you have no idea of the void you feel when the gift of the Holy Ghost is taken away from you. There’s no way to describe it. The emptiness that you feel, the lack of direction, the loss of hope—it is the worst feeling I’ve ever had.”  She said it was the worst feeling to be left on her own and in her own strength.


It reminds me, in a small way, of when you and I were in the Guatemalan Highlands, Maurine, and we were visiting with the local culture there in a remote village. You remember?  We had noted all these Guatemaltecos as they were carrying these enormous burdens up these steep mountainsides.  They would put a leather or burlap strap around their foreheads to steady the load on their backs and would hike up these steep dirt trails with their produce or wares to take to the marketplace.  We were shown what kind of burdens these little men and women were carrying.  I say little because I was a foot taller than most of them and half again wider (not that I’m proud of that fact).  One of them asked me if I wanted to try to lift one bag of onions this man had carried to market.  I, being the self-acknowledged buff guy that I am, said, “Of course. I’ll give it a try.”  I could barely lift the bag off the ground two inches—it weighed more than 100 kilograms—more than 220 pounds! 

I thought at that moment: “What if I were left to my own strength! How much could I do on my own when I can’t even pick up a large bag of onions and carry that? What is our own strength compared to the strength of the Lord, with which we can do all things?”


It’s so interesting to me, too, what you can feel if you open yourself up to the strength of the Lord working in you. You can feel it when you have ideas that are better than your own. You can feel when you have strength that seems more than your own. You can feel when you have patience and gratitude that is more than your own. It is a glorious feeling. And I think we could all do better to acknowledge the Lord and His Spirit that gives us the strength we live with every day.

And this horrific situation of the Nephites, when the Lord withdraws His Spirit, reminds us that these spiritual gifts are not acquired through our diligent efforts or through our amazing righteousness, they are GIFTS from the Spirit. 

Now, we need to work on them and develop them and pray over them and ask the Lord to magnify our use of them, but bottom line is this: they are gifts. 


It’s like Joseph Smith getting the gift of translation but having to figure out how to do it. The Lord extended this first gift to him, but he needed to exercise with diligent effort and as he did, he got better and better at it.  When Joseph first got the Urim and Thummim, he was fascinated by them.  He told his friend, Joseph Knight, that with them he could see anything.  But that didn’t mean he knew how to use them to translate the gold plates.  He had to learn how to do that by his prayerful efforts.  He used his seer stone as well, but he still had to practice his gift to become an instrument in the hands of the Lord.

I remember having a spiritual gift extended to me.  I was called out of my mission in Germany to serve in the Swiss Temple for three months.  We’ve talked about this before.  When I arrived I realized that each week we had a different group of Saints visiting the temple for that week from a certain country.  The first week we had Germans, the next week we had the Danes.  Then we had the Italians, then the Finns came down, then the French.  In those days, the Temple in Zollikofen was the only temple on the continent of Europe.  Well, I assumed that to do my duties in the temple at the veil and any other place, I had to learn them in that language.  I prayed fervently over this and asked the Lord to help me understand the language of the week.  By the end of the first day of each week I would have that language down enough to do all my duties.  By the end of the week I could understand some conversations—then the next week the process would begin again.  Before long, I knew all my temple duties in seven languages.  I thought that was what was required and didn’t see it for what it was.  One day, Sister Thelma Fetzer, the temple matron, came to me and said, “Elder Proctor, I guess you know you have been given the gift of tongues.”  I said, “No, I don’t think so, I just thought we were supposed to learn these languages.” She said, “Elder Proctor, in all the time we’ve been here we haven’t had one worker who has learned his or her duties in seven languages in seven weeks.  You have been given the gift of tongues.”  I realized at that moment that this truly was a gift and I went home that night and thanked the Lord with all my heart for this gift of the Spirit.


And at this time among the Nephites, all the gifts of the Spirit were withdrawn from them because of their wickedness.  And Mormon even says the beloved disciples were withdrawn.  Who were they?  You remember?  They were the three Nephites who elected to stay on the earth until the Lord came again, and by this time they had already been with the people for more than 300 years.  I love how he calls them beloved.  They had clearly exercised the gift of healing many times among the people. They had been a blessing to the whole nation for generations, and now, the Lord even withdrew them from the people.

One of the compelling things about the Spirit is that it is what orders the universe and without the Spirit of God, it is chaos. So, when the spirit withdraws from an entire people or a nation or a person or a community or a cause, chaos starts to reign.  And it comes from because of division. The spirit is an organizing force.

Those of you who are Star Wars fans know that George Lucas got it right when he talked about The Force which is in and through all things which brings order to the universe and that you can draw upon The Force. Of course that’s a fantasy show and science fiction, but there are so many truths in that, including that particular one about The Force, which are analogous to the Spirit which is in and through all things.

And in the case of the Book of Mormon, we see that when the Spirit withdraws from the people, chaos reigns supreme and the entire nation falls apart.

And by the way, if you study the myths of the various regions and cultures of the world, they talk about a beginning and always, order is brought out of chaos from an organizing force or Spirit or higher power.


As the Nephites are falling apart, I do think it’s fascinating the Lord calls a 14-year-0ld boy, Mormon, to preach to the people, to stand as a witness of their destruction and to make a record of all that he observes.  Both Mormon and Joseph Smith, as they are called, are young and pliable, they are meek and humble, they are malleable and teachable.  There’s something to be said of this. 

The Lord didn’t call some man who was forty-years-trained in the ministry to bring forth the Restoration of His true gospel.  He called a boy.  He needed a pure vessel who was open and ready to receive revelation and to have the gifts and blessings of the Spirit imprinted on his soul. He had to be unencumbered by the philosophies of men and the false paradigms of the world. He had to be ready, as Joseph Smith was, to be taught from on High.  And this is what we see in Mormon, as well, a sober child who is ready to be taught the truth from the Lord.


And remember, when Joseph Smith begins his life’s mission, he is disguised as a 14-year-old, poor, uneducated farm boy—but he is, in actuality, the mighty prophet who is the head of the dispensation of the fulness of times.  Granted, he would have to learn line upon line and precept upon precept and experience upon experience and vision upon vision how to be that great head, but he did learn.

And Mormon, here is also disguised as a 14-year-old youth, although large in stature, he is really no one of consequence to the people, at least in their eyes. And yet, this is the mighty prophet Mormon, the great abridger of the 1,000-year records of the Nephites, the powerful commanding general of all the Nephite armies.  He preaches to the people to repent and they absolutely reject his warnings.  His mouth is shut and he is commanded to withdraw from preaching but only to stand as an idle witness to their destruction.


We see here that it is a privilege to hear and receive the word of the Lord and if the people reject His words, the Lord withdraws this privilege and they are left to ignorance of spiritual things and of the Lord’s protective covenants. 

Enoch preached to his people and although he felt inadequate, he was able to bring about a perfect society—so much so, they were all taken up and translated to come back to earth in our days.

Melchizedek had a people who had turned from the Lord and he prayed and fasted and preached to them and all repented and turned their hearts to the Lord and the city, as a people, were all taken up and translated.

Mormon preaches repentance to his people and no one repents, not one turns to the Lord (that we have on record) and again, when the Spirit is withdrawn, chaos reigns supreme—and Satan has a hay day.


I think this idea of coming forth in open rebellion against God is worth exploring. Rebellion seems to indicate that you know something of the gospel but you have utterly turned against it for your own willful or selfish reasons. Open rebellion against God is what happened in the first estate with a third part of the hosts of Heaven who turned against the Father and His Beloved Son.

But it happens here as well when we refuse to have the God who created the universe and who gives us our very breath be our God.


And it’s fascinating to see how the land was cursed for their sake. We don’t quite understand what this means, but there is this connection between covenant promises and prosperity and covenant cursings and the things that happen for their sake.

In ancient Israel, and we have talked about this before, there were the covenant blessings and cursings—the Baraka and the Gelalah! If you keep the commandments you receive the baraka—the blessings.  If you turn against the Lord and break His commandments as a people, they receive the covenant cursings—the gelalah.  This is what we see is happening with the Nephites as they turn against God.

And we see that the wicked punish the wicked—it is not God who is punishing them, it is the natural consequence of their turning from Him.  They reap the whirlwind of their own disobedience.


And then we see the introduction again and the infestation of the Gadianton robbers.  But it gets worse.  Mormon informs us:

…that there were sorceries, and witchcrafts, and magics; and the power of the evil one was wrought upon all the face of the land…(see Mormon 1:19)

This is the real McCoy.  I mean, the dark side, if you will. 

…for behold no man could keep that which was his own, for the thieves, and the robbers, and the murderers, and the magic art, and the witchcraft which was in the land. (see Mormon 2:10)

Now this sounds like a movie, but it is not.


No, it isn’t. When we were in Mexico one year, we talked to one of our friends and she said, “Ask practically anyone in Mexico if they know what Catemaco is and they will tell you it is the world capital of witches and warlocks and black magic. We were curious and actually did ask a few people—sure enough, each person knew. 

But what is particularly interesting is this: Catemaco is located near where most Latter-day Saint scholars believe is the land and hill of Cumorah where the Nephite nation came to their end.  The dark arts continue to be practiced in this area to this day. And we discovered that among their traditions they think there is a cache of ancient records somewhere nearby that they are greatly desirous to find. 

Maurine, you and I went to Catemaco and it truly was a brush with the other side.  It’s a beautiful city located on a gorgeous lake, but there is a feeling there of the spiritual darkness—at least we felt it.

I only say these things because Mormon documents witchcrafts and magic arts in his time, and we can certainly document it in our time.


What is interesting is there really are only two ways. Because if the spirit withdraws, something will take its place. And alternate religion will take its place if you will. And this alternate religion is based on power, as we see this battle between the two groups continue, but it is also based on dark things that Satan sponsors. It is interesting that Mormon does not give us details about these witchcraft etc. Is because it is not edifying and it is not helpful. But it is present.


Now, let’s go to the last great battle of the Nephites in Mormon chapter 6.  This is where you and I, Scot, just weep for this tremendous loss. And yes, everytime I read these last few chapters I keep hoping for a different outcome, but it never changes; the Nephite nation and civilization is destroyed.

Let’s just do a comparison of the armies there and some other familiar historic battles.  At the last battle at Cumorah, Mormon documents 230,000 warriors who were killed in one day—save 24 individuals, including his son Moroni. 


I want to cut in just for a second.  First of all, this was a formidable army, but they had carefully and steadily prepared for four years for this last battle.  Mormon was very familiar with the history of war—he had been the commanding general of the Nephite armies now for the past approximately 50 years.  He had access to all the records.  He knew of chief captain Moroni and the 72 B.C. wars.  He knew of Moroni’s defenses and strategies of war.  Surely in this four-year period, they are carefully preparing for the onslaught of the Lamanite armies.  They are digging in to a very defensive position and they hope that here they would be able to gain some advantage over the Lamanites.  As this is the case, the offensive armies of the Lamanites would have to greatly outnumber the Nephites to conquer them, perhaps by five or even ten times their size in sheer numbers.  If that is the came, we are talking about an army of no less than a million Lamanites and perhaps more than two million.  Remember: Those 230,000 mighty Nephite warriors were all hewn down and destroyed in one day.  Now, with that in mind, let’s briefly look at some other historic battles.


Thanks for that insight. So, how about Napoleon and the great battle against the English at Waterloo.  This will help put things in perspective.  Napoleon came with an army of 72,000 troops and the British army numbered 68,000.

How about the battle of Culloden that altogether changed the course of Scottish history.  Bonnie Prince Charles led 7,000 soldiers in the Jacobite Army, while the Duke of Cumberland led 8,000 in the Royal Army.

How about the decisive battle of Yorktown that ended the Revolutionary War?  General Cornwallis commanded the British army of 6,000 troops while General George Washington commanded 8,800 American troops and 7,800 French troops.

How about Gettysburg, considered by historians to be the largest battle ever fought in North America.  The Union Army numbered 85,000 and the Confederate Army numbered 75,000.  Casualties at the end of three days of fighting were 23,049 from the Union Army, including 3,155 dead, 14,529 wounded and 5,365 missing.  On the Confederate side there were 28,063 casualties, including 3,903 dead, 18,735 wounded and 5,425 missing.

Again, Mormon gives us a detailed account of his army of 10,000 being hewn down in one day and the armies of 10,000 of 22 other commanders also hewn down and destroyed—in one day.  The numbers are staggering.


As we see this great destruction it feels like it hurts me personally. I have come to know these Nephites well and it makes me so sad to know they are decimated. I have come to know them personally; I know Nephi and Lehi, I know Alma and Helaman and the 2,060 sons of Helaman and I know Ammon and Aaron and Omner and Himni and Abish and Sariah.  I weep because these are my friends and their posterity have chosen to not follow the Lord and this has led them to destruction.


Dr. Hugh Nibley taught:

“The Book of Mormon goes to great lengths to describe just what a wicked society looks like and how it operates, with enough examples to type it beyond question; and with clinical precision it describes the hysteria that leads to its end. It also tells us how to recognize a righteous society, usually presenting the two types to us in close proximity. With these two images firmly in mind we are told why this presentation is being given, for whose benefit, and why it is so singularly important. The authors do not ask us to make comparisons and see ourselves in the picture, because that would be futile: the wickeder the people are the more they balk at facing their real image and the more skillful they become in evading, altering, faking, and justifying. So, the book does not tell us to make the comparison—it does it for us, frankly and brutally.

(Nibley, Hugh, Prophetic Book of Mormon, Deseret Book Company, Salt Lake City, 1989, p. 508)

Mormon and Moroni are beyond heart-broken at the loss of their nation.  They both mourn the loss but their great hope is that we, the people who receive this great Book of Mormon, will learn from them and choose the Lord and His eternal covenants.


There’s so much more we could talk about, but that’s all for today.  We’ve loved being with you.  Don’t forget to order your Church History Come Follow Me 2021 calendars this week.  You can order them at latterdaysaintmag.com/2021 that’s latterdaysaintmag.com/2021

Next week we’ll be studying Mormon chapters 7 through 9 with the lesson entitled: “I Speak unto You As If Ye Were Present”.  Thanks to Paul Cardall for the beautiful music that accompanies this podcast and to our producer, Michaela Proctor Hutchins.  Have a great week and see you next time.